# Why not declare Israel the 51st state? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 24, 2012, 3:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-declare-israel-the-51st-state/638695 "2012-10-24T03:26:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2012, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-declare-israel-the-51st-state/638695/61 "2012-10-24T23:33:30Z")
> [@drew870mitchell](#): > > I had an idea during the debate, and it’s on the same order as the OP (and the above NATO suggestion), so: > > Suppose the EU admitted both Israel and Palestine as full members - Eurozone, Schengen Agreement, the works. > > Such a move would weaken the Euro. You had me reading that last sentence with a Yiddish accent! 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Rune](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e68b1a/32.png) [@Rune](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rune)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2012, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-declare-israel-the-51st-state/638695/62 "2012-10-25T00:13:13Z")
> [@Mijin](#): > > Ever heard of a little thing called the Eurovision Song Contest? Israel have even hosted that mofo. > > Case closed. They even won a couple of times. And look what good that did us. [Bunch of badly clothed hairy Jewish hippies singing kumbaya songs.](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C33kO3fvjkI&playnext=1&list=PLE223114FFE76005C&feature=results_main) Not an example to follow. > [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > Is that why Iceland isn’t allowed to join? Iceland can join the EU if they wanted. They decided long ago they were better off keeping their fish to themselves. And since they’ve proven they can extend their territorial waters whenever they wish and beat off the Queen’s Navy even though they have no navy themselves, they have no pressing need. At least until they decided to play Switzerland of the north. ---
**Author:** ![drew870mitchell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drew870mitchell/32/3946_2.png) [@drew870mitchell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drew870mitchell)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2012, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-declare-israel-the-51st-state/638695/63 "2012-10-25T00:44:24Z")
> [@Rune](#): > > Berlusconi had probably seen a hot Israeli babe somewhere but why should the EU be settled with the Palestinians? Of what benefit will they be to us? What have they to offer us? How will they enrich our lives? > > Besides it’s called the European Union for a reason. If Palestine or Israel were to become members of the EU, they should accept the reestablishment of The Kingdom of Jerusalem and the other glorious crusader states of the Outremer. The idea as it congealed was that it’s a package deal. It’s fair to both of them to join and get the same protection, cash, rights, security, and responsibilities. And it would encourage them to play nicer with each other. The obvious biggest problem is that there’s a lot of cart-before-horse: most of the conflict would have to be resolved in order for it to even be feasible. But it would be a pretty good enticement to get things moving. * * * FWIW, my other idea during the debate was that if Romney wins he should give the Defense, State, and VA positions to Obama’s team, since foreign policy is so clearly a zero-priority for him. But a hybrid Romney-Obama administration is such a bad idea that just uttering it is probably the first note to the song that ends the Earth. ---
**Author:** ![Rhythmdvl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/85f322/32.png) [@Rhythmdvl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhythmdvl)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2012, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-declare-israel-the-51st-state/638695/64 "2012-10-25T00:49:45Z")
> [@Death\_of\_Rats](#): > > > [@Rhythmdvl](#): > > > > Hey, let’s do PCs versus console games again! > > I support PCs joining the EU, but not consoles! Heh, the PCs comment was supposed to go in [this](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=669507)thread–but it kind of fits this thread too, doesn’t it? ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2012, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-declare-israel-the-51st-state/638695/65 "2012-10-25T01:33:23Z")
> [@drew870mitchell](#): > > … Suppose the EU admitted both Israel and Palestine as full members - Eurozone, Schengen Agreement, the works. > > Such a move would weaken the Euro. … By stealing Europe’s precious bodily fluids! ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2012, 6:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-declare-israel-the-51st-state/638695/66 "2012-10-25T06:39:33Z")
> [@rune](#): > > iceland can join the eu if they wanted. whoosh!!!😉 ---
**Author:** ![newcomer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/e5b9ba/32.png) [@newcomer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/newcomer)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2012, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-declare-israel-the-51st-state/638695/67 "2012-10-25T14:06:42Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > You can enter anytime you like, but you can never leave. > > 🙂 That would be Hotel California. ---
**Author:** ![Philliam](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/philliam/32/3011_2.png) [@Philliam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Philliam)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2012, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-declare-israel-the-51st-state/638695/68 "2012-10-25T17:51:17Z")
> [@XT](#): > > You don’t have a clue how states join the Union, do you? 😛 Hopefully, it wasn’t a serious assertion on your part, and you were just spewing it out for effect. > > America’s security doesn’t depend on Israel’s security though. Some of America’s INTERESTS depend on Israel’s SUPPORT in a region that is vital to our national interest, but we aren’t dependent on them for our security. Now that we’ve cleaned that up, do you have any more bizzare and ignorant assertions to make, because this is pretty fun!! > > Ah, see, now there is your problem. You think that countries are like a man and woman getting married. Most people would never conceive of such a strange analogy. Instead, think of a country being like a raven… …Or like a writing desk. ---
**Author:** ![Honesty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/f04885/32.png) [@Honesty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Honesty)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2012, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-declare-israel-the-51st-state/638695/69 "2012-10-25T19:18:19Z")
> [@The\_Sheikh](#): > > Being civilized and intelligent should have made it difficult for Americans to believe that America’s security is somehow dependent on Israel’s security. It would be much easier if the two countries decided to have a church marriage - make it official. The U.S annexing Israel is certainly comic book fodder but it’s still a damned good idea. I think the U.S could keep Israel more safe and secure than their current government. I also think the U.S would likely have more success in securing peace with Israel’s neighbors. My biggest beef with Israel is that it’s a self-styled _Jewish democracy_ which basically implies, “We’re a democracy as long as there is a Jewish majority.” That doesn’t jive with me precisely because any form of _democratic_ government should be built upon the betterment and upliftment of \*all \*people regardless of religion or ethnicity. Otherwise, you’re not dealing with a democracy, you’re dealing with a government-sponsored clique. The [Interior Minister of Israel](http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/06/11/us-israel-africans-idUSBRE85A0VI20120611)remarked about deportation of African migrants (or “infiltrators” as they are called ) with “I’m not acting out of hatred of strangers but love of my people and to rescue the homeland.” It’s fuckin’ unconscionable and racist. Imagine if Obama or any U.S official said some crap like that regarding Hispanics, Eastern Europeans, or any other ethnic group being deported. The U.S could do better for Israel and Israelis. - Honesty ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2012, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-declare-israel-the-51st-state/638695/70 "2012-10-25T19:22:46Z")
If I were from some other country (almost _any_ other country) I would probably view an American attempt to forcibly invade and annex Israel with great amusement. Proportionally, it would be the biggest slaughter (on both sides) since WWII. ---
**Author:** ![Honesty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/f04885/32.png) [@Honesty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Honesty)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2012, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-declare-israel-the-51st-state/638695/71 "2012-10-25T19:29:26Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > If I were from some other country (almost _any_ other country) I would probably view an American attempt to forcibly invade and annex Israel with great amusement. Proportionally, it would be the biggest slaughter (on both sides) since WWII. Wait, wait, wait. You’re telling me that the United States of America could not invade and annex Israel without massive causalities? Ha-ha-ha. We have military bases all over the Middle East and over 5,000 nuclear warheads scattered all over the globe. I’m genuinely curious as to how Israel would slaughter the United States - fight my ignorance. - Honesty ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2012, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-declare-israel-the-51st-state/638695/72 "2012-10-25T19:30:23Z")
> [@Honesty](#): > > Imagine if Obama or any U.S official said some crap like that regarding Hispanics, Eastern Europeans, or any other ethnic group being deported. We have fences to keep Hispanics out. When we catch them we deport them. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2012, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-declare-israel-the-51st-state/638695/73 "2012-10-25T19:39:40Z")
If the US wanted to take over Israel as our 51st state, and first nuclear glassed parking lot, I’m sure we could accomplish that with very few casualties. But if we want to take over a functioning society, well, we couldn’t, if Israel fought back. Israeli equipment is as good as ours, its training is arguably as good or better, and we would have to reduce it to rubble to take it over. And rubble makes for pretty good defensive positions. Ask the people in Stalingrad or Berlin. I will mention Iraq as one small comparison. We bombed Iraq at will for months before invading, and destroyed surprising little of their military in the process. Luckily for coalition forces, the Iraqis were by and large poorly trained, poorly led, poorly motivated, and armed if inferior Soviet-era equipment. We would have none of those advantages against Israel. I wonder if this question – a war between the US and Israel – is worth its own thread? ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2012, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-declare-israel-the-51st-state/638695/74 "2012-10-25T19:48:22Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > I wonder if this question – a war between the US and Israel – is worth its own thread? Would we put Jews in camps, as we did Japanese in WWII? Oye. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2012, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-declare-israel-the-51st-state/638695/75 "2012-10-25T19:53:53Z")
Maybe just the rabbis? ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2012, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-declare-israel-the-51st-state/638695/76 "2012-10-25T20:26:23Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > Maybe just the rabbis? No, no, just the Bubbes. Hold the Grandmothers hostage. Of course, there might be a rising in the USA for lack of latkes… ---
**Author:** ![Rucksinator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/898d66/32.png) [@Rucksinator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rucksinator)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2012, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-declare-israel-the-51st-state/638695/77 "2012-10-26T00:56:51Z")
> [@The\_Sheikh](#): > > Being civilized and intelligent should have made it difficult for Americans to believe that America’s security is somehow dependent on Israel’s security. It would be much easier if the two countries decided to have a church marriage - make it official. I believe the OP meant to say “If you love them so much, why don’t you marry them!?! Israel and America, sitting in a tree, K-I-S-S-I-N-G…” ---
**Author:** ![Leaffan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leaffan/32/299_2.png) [@Leaffan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaffan)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2012, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-declare-israel-the-51st-state/638695/78 "2012-10-26T00:59:14Z")
> [@Rucksinator](#): > > I believe the OP meant to say “If you love them so much, why don’t you marry them!?! > Israel and America, sitting in a tree, K-I-S-S-I-N-G…” ER ---
**Author:** ![Dana\_Scully](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/5daacb/32.png) [@Dana\_Scully](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dana_Scully)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2012, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-declare-israel-the-51st-state/638695/79 "2012-10-26T03:06:46Z")
> [@The\_Sheikh](#): > > Being civilized and intelligent should have made it difficult for Americans to believe that America’s security is somehow dependent on Israel’s security. It would be much easier if the two countries decided to have a church marriage - make it official. I think the Israelis might object. ---
**Author:** ![Noone\_Special](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/noone_special/32/2863_2.png) [@Noone\_Special](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Noone_Special)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2012, 8:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-declare-israel-the-51st-state/638695/80 "2012-10-26T08:13:01Z")
> [@Dana\_Scully](#): > > I think the Israelis might object. And in fact, both of us have objected, already 🙂 > [@Alessan](#): > > To answer the OP in the most literal sense, the reason why Israel shouldn’t be the 51st state is that Israelis don’t want it to be. We like the U.S. a lot - you guys rock! - but we value our independence more. > [@Noone\_Special](#): > > I came in to post exactly this - “Because we don’t want to!” – but, as usual, got beaten to it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-declare-israel-the-51st-state/638695.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-declare-israel-the-51st-state/638695.md?page=5)