# Why not Kucinich? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 19, 2004, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-kucinich/251137 "2004-06-19T01:16:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Zagadka](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zagadka/32/7272_2.png) [@Zagadka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zagadka)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2004, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-kucinich/251137/1 "2004-06-19T01:16:52Z")
Why not? On all of those online test thingies, he always matches me by 10-15% more than Kerry (Around 85% - 70% - I presume this is because he is a _tad_ more to the “left”). However, I’ve been unable to find an objective (or subjective that I trust) opinion of the man, or why he was not seriously discussed by the mainstream population as a choice. Since I know most of your biases pretty well (no way in hell I’m getting an objective opinion here! ;-), I figured I’d ask how you all view(ed) him. I’ve read his website and his official bio. The largest bucking point I see is his “support for a national health care system,” but that is something I’m for anyway. Everything else, from his aggressive stance on human rights to industry accountability, appeals to me. For what it is worth, it also appeals to me that he doesn’t come from big industry and especially old money. So, what’s the catch? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2004, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-kucinich/251137/2 "2004-06-19T01:35:46Z")
I’ve been supporting Kucinich all year – technically I’m supporting him still, although of course I’ll vote for Kerry in November. I’m painfully aware of how little support DJK has managed to drum up this year, and why: First, he’s a nerd. He looks like a middle-aged Alfred E. Neumann with dark hair. He’s a vegan, and that’s a little out there even for me. Some of his rhetoric is a little New Agey. (Not compared to, say, the people in the Natural Law Party, but who pays any attention to them?) Second, he’s too far to the left. He represents the views of a minority wing of the Democratic Party – a very substantial minority, to be sure, possibly a large enough minority to split off and form its own party, but still a minority. And even that minority want an **electable** candidate, and we are painfully aware that we are far to the left of the mainstream of opinion among the American people at this period. No leftist, no liberal, no Democrat wants to risk losing this election. When Kucinich started running, I remember thinking, “I like this guy, he would make the best president we’ve had since Truman, and I’m going to fight to get his message out there. But if he actually gets the nomination, he’ll lose as surely as McGovern lost in 1972, and for the same reason: Because the American people are not ready for a sharp turn to the left.” And then commentators started comparing that middle-of-the-road, pro-gun-rights, upper-crust preppie **Dean** to McGovern! Which shows just how conservative the political center-of-gravity is in the U.S. right now. Anyway, the Democratic voters in the early-primary states ultimately decided to, as one commentator put it, “Date a Dean, marry a Kerry.” I.e., start out with the dangerous, exciting guy, but settle down with a safe, solid one. I just hope Kucinich stays in Congress for a long time to come. ---
**Author:** ![Zagadka](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zagadka/32/7272_2.png) [@Zagadka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zagadka)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2004, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-kucinich/251137/3 "2004-06-19T01:48:27Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > “Date a Dean, marry a Kerry.” I.e., start out with the dangerous, exciting guy, but settle down with a safe, solid one. Sigh. Yes, I guess this election is too important to trust to silly things like ideals, need to settle for cold, hard, reality. Maybe Americans think his name is too hard to spell. “Nixon. Ford. Carter. Reagan. Bush. Clinton.” Sense a trend? > [@](#): > > I just hope Kucinich stays in Congress for a long time to come. Ditto. This man is the first politician I think I’ve actually liked. Ever. BTW, I count his “nerdiness” as a huge positive. Slick, sly people like Clinton are much more apt and able to lie their way out of situations. Kucinich seems like the type of guy who does a lot of explaining his way out. 😉 I’d like to hear him speak. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2004, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-kucinich/251137/4 "2004-06-19T01:52:08Z")
> [@Zagadka](#): > > I’d like to hear him speak. ☹ I’ve heard him speak. There’s nothing slick about him, and nothing vague or meaningless or comforting or jovial. It’s **all content.** He’s like the anti-Reagan. All politicians should be like that, whatever their ideology. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2004, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-kucinich/251137/5 "2004-06-19T01:57:46Z")
BTW, his website is still up: [http://www.kucinich.us/](http://www.kucinich.us/) ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2004, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-kucinich/251137/6 "2004-06-19T01:59:03Z")
Also this blog & news site: [http://www.denniskucinich.us/](http://www.denniskucinich.us/) ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2004, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-kucinich/251137/7 "2004-06-19T02:43:23Z")
The bottom line is that Kucinich is a genuine liberal. Elections nowadays are always between a conservative and a moderate. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2004, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-kucinich/251137/8 "2004-06-19T03:13:42Z")
> [@Little Nemo](#): > > The bottom line is that Kucinich is a genuine liberal. Elections nowadays are always between a conservative and a moderate. This is actually pretty close. The only thing I’d say different is that nowadays elections are between those just to the right of center vs those just to the left. Kucinich has no chance of being elected in the US for the same reason that Pat Buchanan has no chance…Americans prefer candidates that are close to our own center. Kucinich is no where near the center…so he has no chance in our current political structure. Buchanan is no where close to the center…so he doesn’t have a hope in hell either. Simple as that. -XT ---
**Author:** ![2sense](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/2/e47774/32.png) [@2sense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/2sense)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2004, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-kucinich/251137/9 "2004-06-19T03:24:15Z")
I don’t think being liberal is that big a drawback. I mean, it’s not like the Bushista attack machine is treating Kerry like a middle of the road Democrat. They would try to paint any Democratic nominee as a socialist. I think Kucinich’s biggest liablility is that he seems like a wimp. Talking content doesn’t hurt but most voters are amazingly ignorant of the fine points of policy. That’s why politicians seek attention with drama. I think if Kucinich talked tough more voters would take him seriously. People voted for Arnold, after all. ## In politics issues often take a backseat to personalities. Americans love a scrappy underdog. If Cassius Clay could bluster, threaten, and maul his way to political relevance in antebellum Kentucky despite his violent anti-slavery rhetoric then I have to think that a pugnacious progressive politician can possibly achieve popularity today. ---
**Author:** ![I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/i_love_me_vol.i/32/521_2.png) [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/I_Love_Me_Vol.I)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2004, 3:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-kucinich/251137/10 "2004-06-19T03:29:24Z")
Originally Posted by **Little Nemo** : > [@](#): > > The bottom line is that Kucinich is a genuine liberal. Elections nowadays are always between a conservative and a moderate. > [@xtisme](#): > > This is actually pretty close. The only thing I’d say different is that nowadays elections are between those just to the right of center vs those just to the left. You are right, **xtisme** , except that the “center” is actually \*waaay \* to the right in the USA, so basically \*\*Little Nemo \*\* was pretty much correct. ---
**Author:** ![I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/i_love_me_vol.i/32/521_2.png) [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/I_Love_Me_Vol.I)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2004, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-kucinich/251137/11 "2004-06-19T03:32:36Z")
> [@2sense](#): > > ## I have to think that a pugnacious progressive politician can possibly achieve popularity today. ummmmmm… what about Dean? I guess he was “popular”, but not enough to be nominated. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2004, 3:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-kucinich/251137/12 "2004-06-19T03:40:04Z")
Thats why I said OUR center. Personally I don’t think America is ‘way to the right’ nor Europe ‘way to the left’…they are what they are, and they are totally different. I don’t think comparisons between their relative political stances are worth anything. -XT ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Lance\_Murdoch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/47e85d/32.png) [@Captain\_Lance\_Murdoch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Lance_Murdoch)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2004, 4:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-kucinich/251137/13 "2004-06-19T04:03:53Z")
> [@I Love Me](#): > > the “center” is actually waaay to the right in the USA _Waaay_ to the right of What? Austria? France? Italy? Look at the recent success the right has had in those countries. We could be more like Italy if we elected Rupert Murdoch President. (Yes, yes I know he’s ineligible.) When I think of “_waaay_” to the right I think of places like Saudi Arabia. Kucinich had an uphill fight from the get go. He is odd looking. He has an eastern European name. He represents the left side of the Democratic party. Looks and ethnicity shouldn’t matter at all, but of course they do. Our non-parliamentary system enforces moderation. Look at how Bush has been backpedalling on his positions this year in order to make himself look more moderate. Kucinich would have been killed in the general election. That would have gained liberals nothing. No points in the U.S. for second place (2000 election notwithstanding). ---
**Author:** ![2sense](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/2/e47774/32.png) [@2sense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/2sense)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2004, 4:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-kucinich/251137/14 "2004-06-19T04:18:44Z")
> [@I Love Me](#): > > ummmmmm… what about Dean? I guess he was “popular”, but not enough to be nominated. ## I don’t agree that he wasn’t popular enough to be nominated. I’d say he _was_… just not at the right time. If he hadn’t peaked just before Iowa he would have won there and probably be the presumptive nominee right now instead of Kerry. The Bush campaign certainly thought Dean was going to be the nominee. That’s why they had already started the effort to paint him as a liberal, which of course he isn’t. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2004, 6:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-kucinich/251137/15 "2004-06-19T06:43:50Z")
> [@Zagadka](#): > > So, what’s the catch? Well, I’ve heard he bankrupted Cleveland. Sad, really, because his views match up pretty well with mine, too (except on free trade). ---
**Author:** ![blowero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/41988e/32.png) [@blowero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blowero)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2004, 7:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-kucinich/251137/16 "2004-06-19T07:15:01Z")
> [@Little Nemo](#): > > The bottom line is that Kucinich is a genuine liberal. Elections nowadays are always between a conservative and a moderate. That’s exactly right. The mainstream Democratic party keeps getting closer and closer to the Republican party. A true liberal just isn’t politically viable. And really, some of his ideas are pretty far left, like the Department of Peace. He also has a no-nonsense manner of speaking, and frankly, I think most people _like_ to hear nonsense. Personally, I like Kucinich, and I voted for him in the primaries. ---
**Author:** ![Snag](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/94ad74/32.png) [@Snag](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snag)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2004, 8:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-kucinich/251137/17 "2004-06-19T08:10:18Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > I’ve heard him speak. There’s nothing slick about him, and nothing vague or meaningless or comforting or jovial. It’s **all content.** He’s like the anti-Reagan. All politicians should be like that, whatever their ideology. I’d written him off as a loser when I heard him on a local talk show before our primary. By the end of the hour, I was amazed at how well he had his replies thought out. It sounded more like a business plan to me than a political platform. Probably the most concise platform I’ve ever heard. Every position seemed to support the others, mainly I think because he had a moral vision he starts with and everything has to fit within that framework. Even some of his more extreme ideas have plausibility when looked at within the whole. Unfortunately, I think that soundbites work against him. Taken individually his talking points will sound a bit extreme to average Americans out of their full context. But I bet that even many who would strongly disagree with him, and I do on a couple points, would admit upon hearing him at length that he knows how to present a solid case. Anyway, I don’t think we’ve heard the last of him. The guy is so tenacious that he’s likely to be around for a while. He’s going down fighting, and I think the DNC will have to let him have a little time to speak at least out of courtesy. More importantly, he’s the best chance the Democrats have to pull some votes away from Ralph Nader, if Kucinich can get Kerry to make some concessions. It could be some good theater if the Dems play it right. And he may be lucky to make a name for himself in the process. ---
**Author:** ![Zagadka](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zagadka/32/7272_2.png) [@Zagadka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zagadka)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2004, 12:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-kucinich/251137/18 "2004-06-19T12:43:40Z")
> [@2sense](#): > > I think Kucinich’s biggest liablility is that he seems like a wimp. > [@www.denniskucinich.com/?topic=ca](#): > > With current polls showing John Kerry leading at 60% for the California primary next Tuesday, I begin to wonder if our culture of innovation, independence and frontier adventure is beginning to fade. > > C’mon California: Kerry? > > Two months ago, Kerry hardly registered on the radar here. Most thought him too patrician, too dull, or at least too conservative on issues from the Iraq war to NAFTA to gay marriage. Few people in California contributed to his campaign. Top honors went to Dean and Kucinich in terms of donors and number of volunteers. Both have revolutionary fire and some shoot-from-the-hip West Coast attitude. They are bold, authentic, and willing to rattle conventional opinion. They give speeches straight from the heart and aren’t afraid to go off script. > > Kerry is safe. He is the frightened man’s bet for the race against Bush. He’s the compromise candidate, a man about whom we will say, “I suppose that’s the best we could hope for.” He has the pedigree, the power broker network, the height, and the moderate positions on everything. When many people I know talk about voting for Kerry, it is with a sigh of resignation rather than the hurrah of freedom. That doesn’t resonate “wimp” to me O\_o ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2004, 12:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-kucinich/251137/19 "2004-06-19T12:50:38Z")
He’s like any other fringe pol - without any real chance of winning, he’s free to take purely ideological positions that give him the air of principledness. He isn’t going to get held to any promises, or even get tough questions. Sure, he’ll look “better” than the rest. There’s a few of those every election. You want more specifics, though? Reasons to doubt his ability to be a good chief executive? Some of us remember, quite well and quite painfully, his time as “Boy Mayor” of Cleveland in the Seventies. Nobody could tell him the time of day without getting an argument. No issue could be brought up that he wouldn’t make worse, by exacerbating tensions and making agreements impossible. The city was soon in receivership, with “unauditable” books. Sure, he’s probably matured a lot since then, but his record isn’t a good one to run on. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2004, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-kucinich/251137/20 "2004-06-19T14:34:31Z")
> [@Really Not All That Bright](#): > > Well, I’ve heard he bankrupted Cleveland. Here’s how it happened (from the DJK campaign website – [http://www.kucinich.us/about.php](http://www.kucinich.us/about.php)): > [@](#): > > Kucinich first came to national prominence in 1977 when he was elected mayor of Cleveland at age 31; the youngest person ever elected to lead a major American city. In 1978, Cleveland’s banks demanded that he sell the city’s 70 year-old municipally-owned electric system to its private competitor (in which the banks had a financial interest) as a precondition of extending credit to city government. Kucinich refused to sell Muny Light. In an incident unprecedented in modern American politics, the Cleveland banks plunged the city into default for a mere $15 million. Kucinich lost his re-election bid in 1979. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-kucinich/251137.md?page=2)