# Why not let prisoners kill themselves? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 2, 2012, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-let-prisoners-kill-themselves/611584 "2012-02-02T21:50:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2012, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-let-prisoners-kill-themselves/611584/1 "2012-02-02T21:50:04Z")
A Canadian politician has made the news for saying, "“Basically I think that every murderer should have a rope in his cell and he can decide on his own life.” He has [since apologized for his statements](http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/story/2012/02/01/pol-crime-bill-senate.html), but he got me thinking. You’d probably want to go with something a little more regulated, like having a doctor administer a fatal dose of medication at a prisoner’s request, but if someone convicted and sentenced to a very long sentence doesn’t want to serve it out, but would rather end their own life, why not? ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2012, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-let-prisoners-kill-themselves/611584/2 "2012-02-02T22:03:09Z")
Well, tricky… I support the right for terminally-ill medical patients to end their suffering painlessly, so I could imagine a lifer being offered a suicide pill (not so much having a doctor administer an injection, though - too active)… Hmm… a real poser. ---
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2012, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-let-prisoners-kill-themselves/611584/3 "2012-02-02T22:06:14Z")
Why let them avoid their punishment? ---
**Author:** ![Sudden\_Kestrel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecd19e/32.png) [@Sudden\_Kestrel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sudden_Kestrel)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2012, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-let-prisoners-kill-themselves/611584/4 "2012-02-02T22:07:00Z")
I would assume it’s for the same reason we don’t let people in general kill themselves, but I don’t have any idea what that reason is. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2012, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-let-prisoners-kill-themselves/611584/5 "2012-02-02T22:09:03Z")
> [@Revtim](#): > > Why let them avoid their punishment? Mostly this. And to a lesser degree, perhaps you can imagine the uproar when some distraught person gets convicted wrongfully, gives up and hangs himself with the tacit encouragement of the government (using a state-provided rope). ---
**Author:** ![colonial](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/34f0e0/32.png) [@colonial](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/colonial)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2012, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-let-prisoners-kill-themselves/611584/6 "2012-02-02T22:10:59Z")
> [@Cat\_Whisperer](#): > > A Canadian politician has made the news for saying, "“Basically I think that every murderer should have a rope in his cell and he can decide on his own life.” I have always felt this way, right down to the literal detail of the rope in the cell. ---
**Author:** ![Argent\_Towers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e8c25b/32.png) [@Argent\_Towers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Argent_Towers)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2012, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-let-prisoners-kill-themselves/611584/7 "2012-02-02T22:12:54Z")
> [@Revtim](#): > > Why let them avoid their punishment? This is a fallacious and misguided way of thinking, this whole notion that jail time is supposed to be “punishment.” Putting dangerous criminals in jail serves one purpose only: to keep them away from society so they can’t hurt more people. Putting less dangerous criminals in jail, in theory, serves two purposes: keep them away from society _and_, hopefully, rehabilitate them. But in practice, the second part rarely happens. People _think_ the purpose of prison is to provide “punishment,” i.e. society’s revenge against the criminals, like it’s some righteous thing. I guess some people might get warm and fuzzy feelings thinking that the big bad criminals behind bars are now suffering the same way their victims suffered, or something. Or that they’ll “rot in jail” as people often say, and that this will serve as a punishment for the lives they took. Maybe _some_ of them do spend every waking minute of their life sentences in agonizing guilt and misery over the crimes they committed, but I think most of them just adjust to life in prison, and go on living. So, with this said, letting people serving life sentences in prison kill themselves seems to me a perfectly fine idea. They’re in prison so that society is protected from them. That would also happen if they were dead. Both means serve the same end. ---
**Author:** ![colonial](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/34f0e0/32.png) [@colonial](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/colonial)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2012, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-let-prisoners-kill-themselves/611584/8 "2012-02-02T22:16:46Z")
> [@Revtim](#): > > Why let them avoid their punishment? Avoid? _Avoid???_ Death is the ultimate punishment, and it does not matter if it is self-inlflicted. Another entirely separate justification for the rope in the cell practice is that it is a lot cheaper for the rest of us if the con takes advantage of the opportunity. I might even let any felon, especially any violent felon, have a rope to call his own. ---
**Author:** ![Blaster\_Master](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/cab0a1/32.png) [@Blaster\_Master](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blaster_Master)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2012, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-let-prisoners-kill-themselves/611584/9 "2012-02-02T22:21:03Z")
> [@Revtim](#): > > Why let them avoid their punishment? I don’t understand why people would think death is a less harsh punishment than being imprisoned. If you’re religious, then you must believe they’ll get whatever punishment or reward is offered to them in the afterlife or their next life that much sooner, which is surely going to be fully appropriate whereas we are stuck with the blunt tools of our justice system and prison sentences. If you’re not religious, then you must believe that they go to oblivion upon death, at which point any punishment they may have received beforehand is pointless anyway except for the satisfaction of those giving it to them. Personally, I think that suicide is a terrible decision in the large majority of situations; however, I don’t understand why we ban it as a society. Like so many other things we ban, people will do it anyway, but if it were legal, maybe they’d get help that could convince them otherwise, or at least get methods that are more lethal and less intrusive on others. Certainly in the case of a life sentence, I don’t see how it’s all that meaningfully different from a terminal disease. Give them some treatment but ultimately if they want to do it they’ll try it anyway, so we might as well do what we can. ---
**Author:** ![erislover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/71e660/32.png) [@erislover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/erislover)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2012, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-let-prisoners-kill-themselves/611584/10 "2012-02-02T22:22:42Z")
I remember once a poster here held the opinion that we would never be truly free as a society until suicide were freely available and not held in such low regard. I thought that was an interesting position, about which I’ve never come to a definite opinion. In the case of prisoners, though, probably the kind of people who feel guilty enough to actually commit suicide are the folks that could actually be rehabilitated, which is an unfortunate pickle to be in if you’re of the inclination to allow it. ---
**Author:** ![Rachellelogram](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rachellelogram/32/8689_2.png) [@Rachellelogram](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rachellelogram)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2012, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-let-prisoners-kill-themselves/611584/11 "2012-02-02T22:39:05Z")
Is it so difficult to turn one’s own clothing into a rope? Or stab oneself in the neck with a knife? Prisoners who want to die don’t really have trouble making it happen (other than small logistical delays). I think providing them with a rope would be sending the wrong message–“we want you dead.” ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2012, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-let-prisoners-kill-themselves/611584/12 "2012-02-02T22:45:58Z")
Sometimes its about revenge. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2012, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-let-prisoners-kill-themselves/611584/13 "2012-02-02T23:00:17Z")
We don’t do this for the same reason we don’t let prisoners with appendicitis die. The impulse to suicide is, usually, a sign of serious mental illness. We have an ethical duty to provide medical care to sick prisoners. ---
**Author:** ![colonial](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/34f0e0/32.png) [@colonial](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/colonial)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2012, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-let-prisoners-kill-themselves/611584/14 "2012-02-02T23:24:55Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > We don’t do this for the same reason we don’t let prisoners with appendicitis die. The impulse to suicide is, usually, a sign of serious mental illness. We have an ethical duty to provide medical care to sick prisoners. There is no ethical duty to prolong the life of anyone sentenced to life. ---
**Author:** ![colonial](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/34f0e0/32.png) [@colonial](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/colonial)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2012, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-let-prisoners-kill-themselves/611584/15 "2012-02-02T23:26:31Z")
> [@rachelellogram](#): > > Is it so difficult to turn one’s own clothing into a rope? Or stab oneself in the neck with a knife? Prisoners who want to die don’t really have trouble making it happen (other than small logistical delays). I think providing them with a rope would be sending the wrong message–“we want you dead.” We _do_ want them dead! Begone with their miserable, useless lives. ---
**Author:** ![DianaG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7ab992/32.png) [@DianaG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DianaG)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2012, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-let-prisoners-kill-themselves/611584/16 "2012-02-02T23:31:10Z")
What’s this “we” shit, kemosabe? I have no use for people who egregiously abuse the enter key, but I don’t advocate for their deaths. ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2012, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-let-prisoners-kill-themselves/611584/17 "2012-02-02T23:34:24Z")
The US Supreme Court has decided that inmates have a constitutional right to receive appropriate needed medical care up to the same standard that the public might receive (it’s implied in the prohibition of cruel and unusual punishment, per the court.) That means those who qualify get dialysis, meds for their diabetes, casting for their broken bones, and interventions to prevent suicide for those at risk. To change that, one will need to alter the US constitution. Good luck with that. ---
**Author:** ![colonial](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/34f0e0/32.png) [@colonial](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/colonial)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2012, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-let-prisoners-kill-themselves/611584/18 "2012-02-02T23:36:01Z")
> [@DianaG](#): > > What’s this “we” shit, kemosabe? The so-called “editorial” we is a close approximation. > [@DianaG](#): > > I have no use for people who egregiously abuse the enter key, but I don’t advocate for their deaths. Huh? ---
**Author:** ![Pitchmeister](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pitchmeister/32/3459_2.png) [@Pitchmeister](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pitchmeister)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2012, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-let-prisoners-kill-themselves/611584/19 "2012-02-02T23:45:29Z")
> [@DianaG](#): > > I have no use for people who egregiously abuse the enter key, but I don’t advocate for their deaths. > [@colonial](#): > > Huh? I believe **DianaG** is referring to your post #6: > [@colonial](#): > > I have always felt this way, right down to the literal detail > of the rope in the cell. ---
**Author:** ![thirdname](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/d07c76/32.png) [@thirdname](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thirdname)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2012, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-let-prisoners-kill-themselves/611584/20 "2012-02-02T23:48:02Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > We don’t do this for the same reason we don’t let prisoners with appendicitis die. The impulse to suicide is, usually, a sign of serious mental illness. We have an ethical duty to provide medical care to sick prisoners. Is it really “mental illness” if someone who is going to spend the rest of his life locked in a small box decides to kill himself? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-let-prisoners-kill-themselves/611584.md?page=2)