# Why not let prisoners kill themselves? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 2, 2012, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-let-prisoners-kill-themselves/611584 "2012-02-02T21:50:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![colonial](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/34f0e0/32.png) [@colonial](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/colonial)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2012, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-let-prisoners-kill-themselves/611584/21 "2012-02-02T23:48:45Z")
> [@Pitchmeister](#): > > I believe **DianaG** is referring to your post #6: Does not explain anything. ---
**Author:** ![Pitchmeister](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pitchmeister/32/3459_2.png) [@Pitchmeister](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pitchmeister)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2012, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-let-prisoners-kill-themselves/611584/22 "2012-02-02T23:54:35Z")
Just speculating here, but was that paragraph break really necessary? She’s not comparing the two, but just pointing out the ridiculousness and hideousness of your misanthropist statement in post #15, unless that one was tongue-in-cheek… ---
**Author:** ![colonial](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/34f0e0/32.png) [@colonial](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/colonial)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2012, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-let-prisoners-kill-themselves/611584/23 "2012-02-03T00:15:29Z")
> [@Pitchmeister](#): > > Just speculating here, but was that paragraph break really necessary? I can think of another explanation, but I will not point it out, since that might take some of the fun out of your roaming the speculative landscape. As for the paragraph break I format my posts to please myself, but there is no sense of necessity about it. > [@Pitchmeister](#): > > She’s not comparing the two, but just pointing out the ridiculousness and hideousness of your misanthropist statement in post #15, unless that one was tongue-in-cheek… There is nothing ridiclous about wishing for the end of numerous categories of life, except in the minds of the intellectually anal. ---
**Author:** ![Renee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/renee/32/287_2.png) [@Renee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Renee)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2012, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-let-prisoners-kill-themselves/611584/24 "2012-02-03T00:21:09Z")
> [@thirdname](#): > > Is it really “mental illness” if someone who is going to spend the rest of his life locked in a small box decides to kill himself? I agree. I’ve never in my life contemplated suicide or been depressed or any of that, but if you told me I had to go to prison for 20+ years, I’d do whatever it took to off myself. That’s not crazy, that’s a rational choice. And yeah, I’d support assisted suicide for any prisoner who wants it. ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2012, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-let-prisoners-kill-themselves/611584/25 "2012-02-03T00:23:36Z")
> [@Renee](#): > > I agree. I’ve never in my life contemplated suicide or been depressed or any of that, but if you told me I had to go to prison for 20+ years, I’d do whatever it took to off myself. That’s not crazy, that’s a rational choice. And yeah, I’d support assisted suicide for any prisoner who wants it. Most inmates do manage to make some sort of functional lives for themselves while in prison, complete with their own pleasures and satisfactions. So while the desire to do self-harm when confronted with the knowledge of impending incarceration is understandable, it’s not necessarily rational. It’s more of a permanent solution to a temporary adjustment disorder in the vast majority of cases. ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2012, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-let-prisoners-kill-themselves/611584/26 "2012-02-03T00:56:33Z")
I imagine a major reason is that suicides and “suicides” are counter to good order in the prison. Think of it from the prison staff point of view. You don’t want to have to investigate all these suicides as possible murders, you don’t want your staff accused of killing prisoners, you don’t want inmates rioting over the suspicious deaths of other prisoners. There may be a fair number of prison staffers who enjoy making prisoner’s lives more miserable, up to and including driving them to suicide, helping them to commit suicide, or murdering them and disguising it as suicide. But most staffers would just rather have a quiet day at work where nothing out of the ordinary happens and there’s no paperwork to fill out. ---
**Author:** ![gazpacho](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/6f9a4e/32.png) [@gazpacho](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gazpacho)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2012, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-let-prisoners-kill-themselves/611584/27 "2012-02-03T00:58:51Z")
> [@Argent\_Towers](#): > > This is a fallacious and misguided way of thinking, this whole notion that jail time is supposed to be “punishment.” Putting dangerous criminals in jail serves one purpose only: to keep them away from society so they can’t hurt more people. Putting less dangerous criminals in jail, in theory, serves two purposes: keep them away from society _and_, hopefully, rehabilitate them. But in practice, the second part rarely happens. It is also supposed to be a deterrent. Don’t do these things or you will be punished. ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2012, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-let-prisoners-kill-themselves/611584/28 "2012-02-03T01:03:37Z")
Because they are human beings. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2012, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-let-prisoners-kill-themselves/611584/29 "2012-02-03T01:17:53Z")
> [@thirdname](#): > > Is it really “mental illness” if someone who is going to spend the rest of his life locked in a small box decides to kill himself? Good point. > [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](#): > > Most inmates do manage to make some sort of functional lives for themselves while in prison, complete with their own pleasures and satisfactions. So while the desire to do self-harm when confronted with the knowledge of impending incarceration is understandable, it’s not necessarily rational. It’s more of a permanent solution to a temporary adjustment disorder in the vast majority of cases. Another good point. Maybe assisted suicide would not be an option until, say, five years into a life sentence. Maybe a prisoner who is petitioning for assisted suicide should have mandatory counselling first. > [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > Because they are human beings. There’s probably an argument to be made that not allowing incarcerated humans the same freedom to decide when to end their lives that we all have is inhumane. ---
**Author:** ![Randy\_Seltzer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ee7513/32.png) [@Randy\_Seltzer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Randy_Seltzer)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2012, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-let-prisoners-kill-themselves/611584/30 "2012-02-03T01:52:18Z")
> [@Argent\_Towers](#): > > This is a fallacious and misguided way of thinking, this whole notion that jail time is supposed to be “punishment.” Putting dangerous criminals in jail serves one purpose only: to keep them away from society so they can’t hurt more people. Putting less dangerous criminals in jail, in theory, serves two purposes: keep them away from society _and_, hopefully, rehabilitate them. But in practice, the second part rarely happens. > > People _think_ the purpose of prison is to provide “punishment,” i.e. society’s revenge against the criminals, like it’s some righteous thing. I guess some people might get warm and fuzzy feelings thinking that the big bad criminals behind bars are now suffering the same way their victims suffered, or something. Or that they’ll “rot in jail” as people often say, and that this will serve as a punishment for the lives they took. Maybe _some_ of them do spend every waking minute of their life sentences in agonizing guilt and misery over the crimes they committed, but I think most of them just adjust to life in prison, and go on living. > > So, with this said, letting people serving life sentences in prison kill themselves seems to me a perfectly fine idea. They’re in prison so that society is protected from them. That would also happen if they were dead. Both means serve the same end. [underlining mine] Legal scholars[sup]1[/sup] generally recognize five valid justifications for “punishment.” Not one or two, as you suggest. [ol][li]Specific deterrence. [_]General deterrence. [_]Segregation from society. [_]Rehabilitation. [_]Fairness/justice. [/ol]Unless you are prepared to go against several hundred years of jurisprudence and political theory, it is a bit extreme to claim that justifications other than number three are a “fallacious and misguided way of thinking.”[/li] [sup]1[/sup] _See, e.g.,_ Criminal Law & Its Processes, Eighth Edition, Kadish et. al., 67-80. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2012, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-let-prisoners-kill-themselves/611584/31 "2012-02-03T01:58:56Z")
> [@Cat\_Whisperer](#): > > You’d probably want to go with something a little more regulated, like having a doctor administer a fatal dose of medication at a prisoner’s request, but if someone convicted and sentenced to a very long sentence doesn’t want to serve it out, but would rather end their own life, why not? So you wouldn’t have had a problem with Guy-Paul Morin, in a moment of helplessness over his being endlessly railroaded by the justice system, hanging himself with a government-supplied rope? ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2012, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-let-prisoners-kill-themselves/611584/32 "2012-02-03T02:10:05Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > So you wouldn’t have had a problem with Guy-Paul Morin, in a moment of helplessness over his being endlessly railroaded by the justice system, hanging himself with a government-supplied rope? Don’t forget David Milgaard while you’re throwing out examples of extreme exceptions to what we have to assume is a fair and just system. ---
**Author:** ![Sudden\_Kestrel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecd19e/32.png) [@Sudden\_Kestrel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sudden_Kestrel)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2012, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-let-prisoners-kill-themselves/611584/33 "2012-02-03T02:13:38Z")
> [@Cat\_Whisperer](#): > > Another good point. Maybe assisted suicide would not be an option until, say, five years into a life sentence. Maybe a prisoner who is petitioning for assisted suicide should have mandatory counselling first. Maybe we could offer this option to prisoners _after_ it is made available to the general public, but not before. (Of course, we could make them all go to prisons in Oregon, I guess.) ---
**Author:** ![Ambivalid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2012, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-let-prisoners-kill-themselves/611584/34 "2012-02-03T02:25:54Z")
> [@Renee](#): > > I agree. I’ve never in my life contemplated suicide or been depressed or any of that, but if you told me I had to go to prison for 20+ years, I’d do whatever it took to off myself. That’s not crazy, that’s a rational choice. And yeah, I’d support assisted suicide for any prisoner who wants it. You speculate as to how you might react under such circumstances; if the actual reality were your life however, there is a good chance you may not be in such a rush to die. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2012, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-let-prisoners-kill-themselves/611584/35 "2012-02-03T02:33:17Z")
> [@colonial](#): > > There is no ethical duty to prolong the life of anyone sentenced to life. That, of course, depends on the ethical system of the individual in question. I would submit that it’s absence from any system of ethics represents a serious flaw in that system. Not as egregious a flaw as unrestrained abuse of carriage returns, of course, but still pretty bad. ---
**Author:** ![Renee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/renee/32/287_2.png) [@Renee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Renee)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2012, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-let-prisoners-kill-themselves/611584/36 "2012-02-03T02:44:11Z")
> [@Ambivalid](#): > > You speculate as to how you might react under such circumstances; if the actual reality were your life however, there is a good chance you may not be in such a rush to die. Maybe, maybe not. Who am I harming though if I feel that life behind bars is not worth living? Certainly people have killed themselves for worse reasons. I realize there are practical considerations here that make this sort of thing difficult, but keeping someone locked up their whole life isn’t cheap, and if they want an out, I think we should find a way to give it to them. ---
**Author:** ![Leaffan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leaffan/32/299_2.png) [@Leaffan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaffan)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2012, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-let-prisoners-kill-themselves/611584/37 "2012-02-03T02:48:25Z")
Well, Senator Boisvenu’s daughter was abducted, raped, and murdered. I don’t see any casual reference to this in here. I’d be pissed too. Fuck the rest of the world if this happened to my daughter. ---
**Author:** ![Sitnam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Sitnam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sitnam)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2012, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-let-prisoners-kill-themselves/611584/38 "2012-02-03T02:57:48Z")
A free person’s suicide attempt might fail and the persons life can improved with therapy, an inmate serving life without parole will still serve life without parole after they’re rehabilitated. I’d call letting someone on death row dying from self inflicted wounds mercy. ---
**Author:** ![chacoguy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/50afbb/32.png) [@chacoguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chacoguy)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2012, 3:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-let-prisoners-kill-themselves/611584/39 "2012-02-03T03:37:03Z")
What if they’re _REALLY_ into auto-erotic asphyxiation? ---
**Author:** ![psychonaut](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/psychonaut/32/4655_2.png) [@psychonaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/psychonaut)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2012, 12:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-let-prisoners-kill-themselves/611584/40 "2012-02-03T12:18:54Z")
> [@Argent\_Towers](#): > > This is a fallacious and misguided way of thinking, this whole notion that jail time is supposed to be “punishment.”… People _think_ the purpose of prison is to provide “punishment”… How strange, then, that the people who actually create and maintain the whole system of criminal justice refer to _penal_ codes and _penitentiaries_. Are you suggesting that they are all being disingenuous? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-let-prisoners-kill-themselves/611584.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-let-prisoners-kill-themselves/611584.md?page=3)