# Why not let Texas secede? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 15, 2013, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-let-texas-secede/671264 "2013-10-15T00:40:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2013, 7:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-let-texas-secede/671264/41 "2013-10-15T07:14:08Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > Because I believe in a one Republic, indivisible. One, great and free? ---
**Author:** ![aNewLeaf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ac91a4/32.png) [@aNewLeaf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aNewLeaf)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2013, 9:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-let-texas-secede/671264/42 "2013-10-15T09:08:32Z")
**Why not let Texas secede?** They’d just turn around and declare war on Mexico. And we’d be obligated to get involved. Some years later, we would occupy and control the newly acquired former Republic of Texas. California could maybe secede peacefully, but I don’t think Texas can. Plus they don’t want to, as mentioned above. A few online petitions are meaningless. ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2013, 9:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-let-texas-secede/671264/43 "2013-10-15T09:08:52Z")
This is the craziest–no, no–on second thought, let them go. Pack all the loonys off to Texas, remove everything Federal that can be moved, relocate the Sane up North, permit Texas to secede and abandon them (the loonys) to their jabbering Roundhead Madness. Inside 6 months, Mexico will invade them, and teach them manners with the slack end of a rolpe. I will, of course, laugh my @ss off. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2013, 9:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-let-texas-secede/671264/44 "2013-10-15T09:24:43Z")
> [@aNewLeaf](#): > > Plus they don’t want to, as mentioned above. A few online petitions are meaningless. After a bit of searching, the various numbers I see for actual support hovers around 20% or so, with more among Republicans. [Example](http://www.publicpolicypolling.com/main/2013/01/clinton-could-win-texas.html): > [@](#): > > Support for secession in the state has increased since President Obama’s reelection. 20% of voters say they’d like to leave the country to 67% who support staying in the union. That’s up from 14% who wanted to secede when we polled on the issue in September of 2011. 35% of Republicans support exiting. So we’re talking about a smallish minority here, at least among non-Republicans. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2013, 12:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-let-texas-secede/671264/45 "2013-10-15T12:34:09Z")
> [@Sitnam](#): > > If it was possible for one state alone to pass legislation for UHC in America why hasn’t it been done? If we can agree UHC is inevitable, why not do it now across the board? Essentially it has been done in two states. Massachusetts chose a private-market, individual mandate model that essentially does provide UHC. It is not single payer, but it is universal in that basically anyone can get insurance if they live in Massachusetts–regardless of who they work for or how much money they make. Vermont recently passed what comes very, very close to being true single payer. Under the Green Mountain Care scheme the State will provide health benefits to anyone who wants them. The implementation is not fully worked out, as the PPACA will require Vermont gets sign off from the DHHS on their plan since it will not be the same as explicit compliance with Obamacare (in Vermont’s case they’re going way above and beyond, though, so it shouldn’t be a problem getting an approval–DHHS already approved Arkansas doing its own system of health care reform slightly different from what the PPACA proscribes.) The Vermont scheme does allow private insurers to continue operating in the State, but they are going to be competing with a “public option”, basically what we would have had under the PPACA if there had been public support for it. Vermont had considered a system in which all insurance was provided by the public option, and along with that there would have been a prohibition against providers accepting insurance from any other provider for anything other than elective procedures–but the Vermont legislature either decided that was too drastic or they just decided they didn’t want it. So why hasn’t this happened in 48 other States? Because there isn’t political will for it, and it’s got nothing to do with there being a lot of Republicans in Texas. Same reason the public option was killed in the PPACA, that had zero to do with Republicans, because PPACA was passed with basically no Republican support at all, so the public option wasn’t removed to appease Republicans. Instead it was removed to appease the sizable number of _Democrats_ in the House that opposed the public option. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2013, 1:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-let-texas-secede/671264/46 "2013-10-15T13:35:45Z")
> [@Sitnam](#): > > If it was possible for one state alone to pass legislation for UHC in America why hasn’t it been done? If we can agree UHC is inevitable, why not do it now across the board? As already noted, 2 states have at least made an attempt. UHC may or may not be inevitable, but if you want it in your state, why wait for the fine folks in Mississippi and Georgia to agree with you? Personally, I’m not that patient. And think about what you just wrote. If there is no support in any individual state for X, why would you expect there to be support in the country, as a whole, for X? ---
**Author:** ![scabpicker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scabpicker/32/8268_2.png) [@scabpicker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scabpicker)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2013, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-let-texas-secede/671264/47 "2013-10-15T13:58:14Z")
Because it’s the epitome of dumb ideas. Trust me, it makes you look dumb for being the millionth OP to suggest this. Since you’re not from Texas, I’ll give you a pass on not knowing how foolish this idea is. If you _were_ a Texan and were suggesting this to my face (checks what board he’s on)…hmm. Well you don’t seem to be a Texan, so we shouldn’t have to worry about that. ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2013, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-let-texas-secede/671264/48 "2013-10-15T14:00:01Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > After a bit of searching, the various numbers I see for actual support hovers around 20% or so, with more among Republicans. [Example](http://www.publicpolicypolling.com/main/2013/01/clinton-could-win-texas.html): > > So we’re talking about a smallish minority here, at least among non-Republicans. The 14-20% shifts based on who’s in the White House, it’s not a stable minority. [This poll is from 2008](http://middleburyinstitute.org/zogbysecessionpoll2008.html): > [@](#): > > Politically, liberal thinkers were much more likely to favor the right to secession for states and regions, as 32% of mainline liberals agreed with the concept. Among the very liberal the support was only slightly less enthusiastic – 28% said they favored such a right. Meanwhile, just 17% of mainline conservatives thought it should exist as an option for states or regions of the nation. > > … > > Among African Americans, 33% said they would support secession, compared to just 15% of white adults. It’s political theater, just like vowing to move to Canada if Conservative Candidate X wins. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2013, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-let-texas-secede/671264/49 "2013-10-15T14:06:35Z")
> [@JM\_Hanes](#): > > If you’re not joking, your attention must have been focused elsewhere when Clinton morphed into a centrist right in front of us. IIRC, he actually embarked on pruning the size of the Federal government. Which did **nothing** to still the insane RW hate against him. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2013, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-let-texas-secede/671264/50 "2013-10-15T14:31:54Z")
> [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > Same reason the public option was killed in the PPACA, that had zero to do with Republicans, because PPACA was passed with basically no Republican support at all, so the public option wasn’t removed to appease Republicans. Instead it was removed to appease the sizable number of _Democrats_ in the House that opposed the public option. My recollection is that it was removed to appease Joe Lieberman and his patrons in the Hartford insurance industry. To the OP topic: “Texas is the only state that came into the Union by treaty. It retains the right to secede at will. We have heard them threaten to secede so often that I formed an enthusiastic organization—The American Friends for Texas Secession. This stops the subject cold. They want to be able to secede but they don’t want anyone to want them to.” - John Steinbeck in _Travels with Charley_ ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2013, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-let-texas-secede/671264/51 "2013-10-15T14:38:52Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Well, if they secede then we can either impose a dictator on them, or we can conquer them and ineptly occupy them while trying to steal their oil. You know, the traditional American way of dealing with foreign owners of oil. I think there is new driling technology that drills wells at an angle, so we can stay out of their land and steal it from the outside. ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2013, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-let-texas-secede/671264/52 "2013-10-15T16:26:40Z")
> [@JM\_Hanes](#): > > Those numbers do include a lot of folks who moved up to places like Detroit for work and have now been moving back for years, but a huge, culture changing, percentage of our population has been imported directly from blue state back yards. Shoot, we must be _at least_ half Yankee or more by now. Boy, that part’s true. Here in South Carolina (where I ended up in 2011) I must bump into Buckeyes every damn day. I actually think we might elect a second D representative in the next few cycles. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2013, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-let-texas-secede/671264/53 "2013-10-15T16:52:47Z")
> [@XT](#): > > Because if you allowed states to just leave any time the political winds changed we wouldn’t have a union. Hate to break this to you, but there are northern states where there are folks who also drone on about secession too. And states in the south west where folks talk the same silly shit. And even boroughs of cities. Staten Islanders pushed for secession from New York City for years, but the rest of the city blocked their efforts. I think it was something about wanting to keep collecting the Island’s tax money. Which is something people talking about letting states secede should consider. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2013, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-let-texas-secede/671264/54 "2013-10-15T16:59:39Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > I think there is new driling technology that drills wells at an angle, so we can stay out of their land and steal it from the outside. Do you mean to say we can DRINK. THEIR. \*\*MILKSHAKE \*\*? Just **DRINK IT UP**?! ---
**Author:** ![Red\_Wiggler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/red_wiggler/32/13190_2.png) [@Red\_Wiggler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Wiggler)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2013, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-let-texas-secede/671264/55 "2013-10-15T20:32:16Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > And even boroughs of cities. > > Staten Islanders pushed for secession from New York City for years, but the rest of the city blocked their efforts. > > I think it was something about wanting to keep collecting the Island’s tax money. Which is something people talking about letting states secede should consider. What should be considered? That the remaining areas would always block a secession because of the loss of tax revenues? What if tax revenue wasn’t the biggest issue driving the two entities apart? ---
**Author:** ![TonySinclair](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/49beb7/32.png) [@TonySinclair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TonySinclair)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2013, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-let-texas-secede/671264/56 "2013-10-15T20:54:34Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > As already noted, 2 states have at least made an attempt. UHC may or may not be inevitable, but if you want it in your state, why wait for the fine folks in Mississippi and Georgia to agree with you? Personally, I’m not that patient. > > And think about what you just wrote. If there is no support in any individual state for X, why would you expect there to be support in the country, as a whole, for X? There’s a big difference between passing UHC in an independent country, and passing it in one state — open borders. If there’s just one state in the US that offers free health care, or even free ice cream, a lot of poor people will move there, which would put an enormous strain on the state’s resources. So yes, I would strongly favor national UHC, but not for my state to do it alone. ---
**Author:** ![pravnik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8edcca/32.png) [@pravnik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pravnik)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2013, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-let-texas-secede/671264/57 "2013-10-15T21:17:51Z")
> [@TonySinclair](#): > > There’s a big difference between passing UHC in an independent country, and passing it in one state — open borders. If there’s just one state in the US that offers free health care, or even free ice cream, a lot of poor people will move there, which would put an enormous strain on the state’s resources. > > So yes, I would strongly favor national UHC, but not for my state to do it alone. Your state could easily close its borders, just secede from the union! Win-win when a state secedes, remember? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Aquadementia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aquadementia/32/555_2.png) [@Aquadementia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aquadementia)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2013, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-let-texas-secede/671264/58 "2013-10-15T21:36:19Z")
I’d be disgusted at the thought of them keeping their NFL franchises. When it comes to college football and basketball, they’d have to go find some Mexican universities to play with. They would be done here. ---
**Author:** ![TonySinclair](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/49beb7/32.png) [@TonySinclair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TonySinclair)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2013, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-let-texas-secede/671264/59 "2013-10-15T21:41:42Z")
> [@pravnik](#): > > Your state could easily close its borders, just secede from the union! Win-win when a state secedes, remember? 😉 Thank you for that extremely accurate and fair paraphrase. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2013, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-let-texas-secede/671264/60 "2013-10-15T21:45:43Z")
> [@Aquadementia](#): > > I’d be disgusted at the thought of them keeping their NFL franchises. > When it comes to college football and basketball, they’d have to go find some Mexican universities to play with. They would be done here. I don’t know about the college stuff (do we allow Canadian colleges to compete with ours in college type sports?), but I don’t see why they couldn’t keep their NFL teams. Don’t the Canadians have pro baseball and hockey teams that compete in the US? Assuming Texas seceded amicably they would be just like Canada or Mexico to the US…presumably on friendly terms, maybe even part of the current trade agreement structure. Of course, it’s not going to happen, but the OP can dream anyway. 😉 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-let-texas-secede/671264.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-let-texas-secede/671264.md?page=4)