# Why not let Texas secede? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 15, 2013, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-let-texas-secede/671264 "2013-10-15T00:40:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![TonySinclair](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/49beb7/32.png) [@TonySinclair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TonySinclair)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2013, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-let-texas-secede/671264/61 "2013-10-15T21:49:25Z")
> [@XT](#): > > Of course, it’s not going to happen, but the OP can dream anyway. 😉 That wasn’t a dream; it was a rant. When I dream, it’s about Brooklyn Decker. ---
**Author:** ![pravnik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8edcca/32.png) [@pravnik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pravnik)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2013, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-let-texas-secede/671264/62 "2013-10-15T21:52:15Z")
> [@TonySinclair](#): > > Thank you for that extremely accurate and fair paraphrase. Sorry, I was attempting to be amusing, thus the winky face. If you’ve taken offense, think for a moment how others might take a seemingly serious assertion that they should be forced to choose between relinquishing their job, home and extended family to move to another state or being forcibly divested of their U.S. citizenship. ---
**Author:** ![TonySinclair](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/49beb7/32.png) [@TonySinclair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TonySinclair)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2013, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-let-texas-secede/671264/63 "2013-10-15T22:13:39Z")
> [@pravnik](#): > > Sorry, I was attempting to be amusing, thus the winky face. If you’ve taken offense, think for a moment how others might take a seemingly serious assertion that they should be forced to choose between relinquishing their job, home and extended family to move to another state or being forcibly divested of their U.S. citizenship. Yes, I can see how that would be a concern. At least, for everyone who thought that I was king of the world. ---
**Author:** ![pravnik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8edcca/32.png) [@pravnik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pravnik)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2013, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-let-texas-secede/671264/64 "2013-10-15T22:27:14Z")
> [@TonySinclair](#): > > Yes, I can see how that would be a concern. At least, for everyone who thought that I was king of the world. Hey, it’s your op. If you don’t want to discuss what the actual effects of what you’re proposing would be, why bring it up? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2013, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-let-texas-secede/671264/65 "2013-10-15T22:40:50Z")
> [@TonySinclair](#): > > There’s a big difference between passing UHC in an independent country, and passing it in one state — open borders. If there’s just one state in the US that offers free health care, or even free ice cream, a lot of poor people will move there, which would put an enormous strain on the state’s resources. > > So yes, I would strongly favor national UHC, but not for my state to do it alone. I don’t believe any significant number of poor people will move for “free healthcare”. We already have vastly different HC programs in different states, and I’m not aware of some great movement of people from one state to another. People move if they can get a job (and even then, many won’t), not so they can get “free healthcare”. Besides, if that’s really a problem, impose a 5 year residency requirement before you can freeload on the system. ---
**Author:** ![TonySinclair](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/49beb7/32.png) [@TonySinclair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TonySinclair)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2013, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-let-texas-secede/671264/66 "2013-10-15T23:11:06Z")
> [@pravnik](#): > > Hey, it’s your op. If you don’t want to discuss what the actual effects of what you’re proposing would be, why bring it up? I’m happy to discuss the economic and political ramifications of secession, including the effect on people who would want to move, but don’t have the means to do so. But my impression was that you were talking about the ramifications, not of secession, but of my little rant about it. Apologies if I misunderstood you. ---
**Author:** ![JM\_Hanes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/6a8cbe/32.png) [@JM\_Hanes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JM_Hanes)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2013, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-let-texas-secede/671264/67 "2013-10-16T00:11:37Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Which did **nothing** to still the insane RW hate against him. Let us not forget the stunning virulence of LW hostility to George Bush, not to mention their subsequent complacency about his successor’s continuation, and occasional expansion, of countless policies they once deemed abhorrent – all of which speaks directly to my original point that the defining factor is not race, but political positioning. ---
**Author:** ![JM\_Hanes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/6a8cbe/32.png) [@JM\_Hanes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JM_Hanes)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2013, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-let-texas-secede/671264/68 "2013-10-16T00:23:08Z")
Could someone clue this newbie in on the meaning of OP? I’m sure it will be something embarrassingly obvious… ---
**Author:** ![TonySinclair](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/49beb7/32.png) [@TonySinclair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TonySinclair)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2013, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-let-texas-secede/671264/69 "2013-10-16T00:59:48Z")
> [@JM\_Hanes](#): > > Could someone clue this newbie in on the meaning of OP? I’m sure it will be something embarrassingly obvious… Depending on the context, original (first) post of the thread, or original poster, i.e. the guy who started the thread. ---
**Author:** ![JM\_Hanes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/6a8cbe/32.png) [@JM\_Hanes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JM_Hanes)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2013, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-let-texas-secede/671264/70 "2013-10-16T01:04:41Z")
Embarrassingly obvious? Check. Thanks, Tony ---
**Author:** ![MEBuckner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mebuckner/32/2896_2.png) [@MEBuckner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MEBuckner)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2013, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-let-texas-secede/671264/71 "2013-10-16T01:48:29Z")
> [@TonySinclair](#): > > I’m happy to discuss the economic and political ramifications of secession, including the effect on people who would want to move, but don’t have the means to do so. But my impression was that you were talking about the ramifications, not of secession, but of my little rant about it. Apologies if I misunderstood you. Well, despite the title, this thread seems to be more about some partition of the United States into Red State America and Blue State America, not just a Texas secession: > [@TonySinclair](#): > > I’ve had it. If Texas wants to secede, let it. If Mississippi and Alabama and any other red states want to join it, let them. And also > [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > I’m a fan of this idea. Give 'em the southeast from Texas to South Carolina. If we could flip flop AZ and NM, that would help. As far north as KS and MO. > > Resettlement for some period. Go be crazy ass all you like. Leave us alone. and > [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > That’s why people would have to be free to relocate. I’d.be hoping that the central T of Pennsylvania (the non Pittsburgh and Philly parts) would feel a calling to join their homeland. > > Along with resettlement, there would also be a “speak now or shut the fuck up policy.” So–by my count, in the 2012 Presidential election there were over 18 million “Blue Staters” in the Red States (Obama voters in states Obama didn’t carry) and nearly 35 million “Red Staters” in the Blue States (Romney voters in states Obama did carry), or nearly 53 million people on the wrong side of the line. Just to give an idea of the magnitude of the relocation y’all are proposing, the fairly infamous [Greco-Turkish](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Population_exchange_between_Greece_and_Turkey) and [Indo-Pakistani](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Partition_of_India#Refugees_settled_in_India) population exchanges clocked in at approximately 2 million and 14.5 million people, respectively. Of course, not every single Romney voter in the Blue States would necessarily want to give up their American citizenship, nor would every single Obama voter in the Red States decide to move away from their homes. On the other hand, those 53 million or so Americans are that minority of the population who actually voted. The non-voters might mainly be too apathetic to care which country they wound up in, but on the other hand, some are presumably so politically radicalized that they didn’t even vote (“Romney’s just a RINO! Why bother voting for one socialist instead of the other?!?” “Why even bother to vote for Obama? He’s just another centrist DINO corporatist sellout!”), plus I didn’t bother totalling up third party candidates, and those guys would be prime secessionist candidates. Other non-voters would include minor children who would presumably accompany their parents across the borders. Just FYI, but large-scale population transfers like between Greece and Turkey in 1923 or India and Pakistan in 1947 tend to be very messy affairs, with lots of deaths and suffering and human rights violations. Bottom line, though, is that fortunately Americans are not actually divided into “Redstatian” and “Bluestatian” ethnic groups, and only a few hotheads seriously support secession, with a somewhat larger minority _claiming_ to support secession in online polls, but even in the reddest of Red States (or in Blue Vermont) the majority of the population does not actually want to partition the country. ---
**Author:** ![JM\_Hanes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/6a8cbe/32.png) [@JM\_Hanes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JM_Hanes)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2013, 12:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-let-texas-secede/671264/72 "2013-10-16T12:21:59Z")
> [@MEBuckner](#): > > So–by my count… [etc.] Best caveat emptor I’ve read in a long time! ---
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2013, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-let-texas-secede/671264/73 "2013-10-16T15:43:09Z")
Attention, everybody: there ISN’T any secessionist movement in Texas worth taking seriously. Texas isn’t going anywhere, no matter how much liberal Yankees may want it to. Hawaii and Vermont have bigger secessionist movements than Texas does, and theirs aren’t worth taking very seriously either. Sorry to break it to you, but you’re stuck with us. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2013, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-let-texas-secede/671264/74 "2013-10-16T16:09:51Z")
But there appears to be a substantial sentiment _outside_ of Texas to kick it out and leave the border open for the more liberal refugees. ---
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2013, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-let-texas-secede/671264/75 "2013-10-16T17:08:35Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > But there appears to be a substantial sentiment _outside_ of Texas to kick it out and leave the border open for the more liberal refugees. But the Texas population keeps on growing, which means we’re ATTRACTING a lot more refugees than we’re exporting. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2013, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-let-texas-secede/671264/76 "2013-10-16T17:13:46Z")
> [@astorian](#): > > But the Texas population keeps on growing, which means we’re ATTRACTING a lot more refugees than we’re exporting. I suspect that trend goes out the window as soon as the new Texas Republic is announced. ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2013, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-let-texas-secede/671264/77 "2013-10-16T17:49:08Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > I suspect that trend goes out the window as soon as the new Texas Republic is announced. But it’s not going to be announced. And many of the immigrants are from those Blue States–which means Texas will become more Democratic. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2013, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-let-texas-secede/671264/78 "2013-10-16T17:58:45Z")
> [@Bridget\_Burke](#): > > But it’s not going to be announced. And many of the immigrants are from those Blue States–which means Texas will become more Democratic. Sorry, been confusing my threads and answered under the assumption the seccession was a done deal. ---
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2013, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-let-texas-secede/671264/79 "2013-10-16T21:28:04Z")
> [@Bridget\_Burke](#): > > But it’s not going to be announced. And many of the immigrants are from those Blue States–which means Texas will become more Democratic. Quite possibly, though that brings up an interesting questio: why do liberal Democrats keep fleeing from the states where their values reign supreme and moving to conservative states? Because taxes and/or crime are too high in liberal states, perhaps? Because there aren’t any jobs being produced in liberal states? Perhaps. But if you don’t like those things, why in the world would you move to a conservative state and then vote for the kinds of people who produced the conditions you’re fleeing? ---
**Author:** ![marshmallow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@marshmallow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/marshmallow)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2013, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-let-texas-secede/671264/80 "2013-10-16T21:42:56Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > States can’t secede. We had a minor skirmish over that some time ago. The Confederacy didn’t have nukes. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-let-texas-secede/671264.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-let-texas-secede/671264.md?page=5)