# Why not "Mister Watson"? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [October 7, 2015, 4:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-mister-watson/733787 "2015-10-07T04:22:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Claverhouse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/13edae/32.png) [@Claverhouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Claverhouse)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2015, 6:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-mister-watson/733787/21 "2015-10-08T06:51:01Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > Hell, even veterinarians, eye doctors and dentists are customarily entitled to “Dr.” in the U.S. . None of whom in Britain. In fact, anyone neither a medico nor PhD would be frowned on for calling themselves ‘Doctor’. Plus use is frowned upon of PhDs to pass themselves as medical doctors: a nutritionist with a legitimate American PhD, Dr. Gillian McKeith, has been critic_ **i** _sed for the implication her views have medical value \*. Paralleling the late Lord Bannside, whose American Doctorate was in Divinity from Bob Jones University, for his best-beloved title of Dr. Paisley. - _[**In 1994, she**](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gillian_McKeith) claims to have obtained an MA and, in 1997, a PhD, both in holistic nutrition, via a distance-learning program from the non-accredited American Holistic College of Nutrition, later the Clayton College of Natural Health in Birmingham, Alabama (but since closed). She is a member of the American Association of Nutritional Consultants, but this association runs no checks on the qualifications of its certified members, permitting Ben Goldacre to register his dead cat for the same qualification as McKeith._ ---
**Author:** ![SciFiSam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/47e85d/32.png) [@SciFiSam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SciFiSam)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2015, 8:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-mister-watson/733787/22 "2015-10-08T08:45:37Z")
> [@Claverhouse](#): > > None of whom in Britain. > In fact, anyone neither a medico nor PhD would be frowned on for calling themselves ‘Doctor’. > > Plus use is frowned upon of PhDs to pass themselves as medical doctors: a nutritionist with a legitimate American PhD, Dr. Gillian McKeith, has been critic_ **i** _sed for the implication her views have medical value \*. > Paralleling the late Lord Bannside, whose American Doctorate was in Divinity from Bob Jones University, for his best-beloved title of Dr. Paisley. > > - _[**In 1994, she**](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gillian_McKeith) claims to have obtained an MA and, in 1997, a PhD, both in holistic nutrition, via a distance-learning program from the non-accredited American Holistic College of Nutrition, later the Clayton College of Natural Health in Birmingham, Alabama (but since closed). She is a member of the American Association of Nutritional Consultants, but this association runs no checks on the qualifications of its certified members, permitting Ben Goldacre to register his dead cat for the same qualification as McKeith._ As your footnote says, Gillian McKeith does not hold a legitimate American PhD. Sometimes dentists and the like are referred to as Dr. So are other PhD holders. Not all dentists hold the equivalent of a doctorate, but those who do can use Dr if they want. They don’t usually but they can if they want to. My more specialised dentists at the dental hospital do use Dr in their title, but my dentist at my local practice does not. ---
**Author:** ![Claverhouse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/13edae/32.png) [@Claverhouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Claverhouse)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2015, 9:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-mister-watson/733787/23 "2015-10-08T09:21:31Z")
Medical no, but if a correspondence school PhD is held legitimate in the USA, then it is valid here. They give out PhDs in _Marketing_ now. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2015, 10:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-mister-watson/733787/24 "2015-10-08T10:52:08Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > Doctors are “Dr.”. \*Surgeons \*are “Mr.” Strictly speaking it should have been Major Watson, military officer rank are to be used in preference to professional qualifications, even after retirement. And Watson was a surgeon in Afghanistan. ---
**Author:** ![Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/earl_snake-hips_tucker/32/3269_2.png) [@Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Earl_Snake-Hips_Tucker)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2015, 12:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-mister-watson/733787/25 "2015-10-08T12:37:25Z")
> [@Peremensoe](#): > > Not true. Like homeopathics, they’re all fakeys. Well, sorta. Usually it’s more like “I know all those other chiros are woo-woo, but _mine_ isn’t and he/she does good work.” ---
**Author:** ![WotNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e19b73/32.png) [@WotNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WotNot)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2015, 1:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-mister-watson/733787/26 "2015-10-08T13:47:46Z")
> [@Peremensoe](#): > > Not true. Like homeopathics, they’re all fakeys. Homeopathy is certainly nonsense, but there are people with legitimate medical doctorates who believe in it, and prescribe homeopathic remedies as part of their medical practice. I dare say the same is true of some chiropractors. It seems that years of medical study aren’t sufficient to inoculate against woo. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2015, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-mister-watson/733787/27 "2015-10-08T17:27:07Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > Strictly speaking it should have been Major Watson, military officer rank are to be used in preference to professional qualifications, even after retirement. And Watson was a surgeon in Afghanistan. I don’t remember Watson’s highest Army rank ever being given by Conan Doyle. Cite? ---
**Author:** ![DrCube](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a3d4f5/32.png) [@DrCube](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrCube)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2015, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-mister-watson/733787/28 "2015-10-08T17:37:20Z")
> [@Peremensoe](#): > > Not true. Like homeopathics, they’re all fakeys. My understanding, correct me if I’m wrong, is that the _field_ of chiropractic medicine is all fakey. Many chiropractors I’ve heard of (on the internet, don’t know any in real life) recognize that, however, and never claim to do anything more than therapeutic touch and spine cracking. After you’ve sunk $150k into your education, it’s hard to just drop it all and leave for another profession. Rational chiropractors who know better basically just consider themselves glorified masseuses. So there are chiropractors who admit that what they do isn’t medicine, but they know that there is a market for their services, and they’d rather take someone’s business than let them go to another chiro who claims aligning their spine will cure cancer or something. > [@AK84](#): > > Strictly speaking it should have been Major Watson, military officer rank are to be used in preference to professional qualifications, even after retirement. And Watson was a surgeon in Afghanistan. Did Dr. Watson retire though? I don’t know the specifics of British military retirement in the 1880s, but I thought Watson did a few years in Afghanistan and that’s it. He wasn’t a career officer. ---
**Author:** ![CGav8r](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/34f0e0/32.png) [@CGav8r](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CGav8r)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2015, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-mister-watson/733787/29 "2015-10-08T17:43:37Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > Strictly speaking it should have been Major Watson, military officer rank are to be used in preference to professional qualifications, even after retirement. And Watson was a surgeon in Afghanistan. Speaking to the earlier cited British-ism of calling surgeons “Mr.”, wouldn’t he be addressed as “Dr. Watson” preclude him from being a surgeon? ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2015, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-mister-watson/733787/30 "2015-10-08T18:10:41Z")
Its possible that I mistaken as to his rank in the Conan Doyle novels, I do recall it being Major, but maybe this was in some other media. By convention, military rank is supposed to be employed in preference to other titles (except those of nobility) on active service and at all times for ranks of major and above; Churchill was sometimes referred to as Col Churchill in the interwar period, and Attlee was called Major Attlee until he became OM. In the Conan Doyle novels, he was in the Army Medical Department, the predecessor of the RAMC today. It was around the 1870’s that doctors began to be commissioned officers,as opposed to civilians engaged. Doctors had to pass examinations in many disciplines including surgery. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2015, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-mister-watson/733787/31 "2015-10-08T18:30:23Z")
Thanks. I don’t remember Dr. Watson’s Army rank _ever_ being given, even in any of the movies or pastiches. ---
**Author:** ![Quercus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/7ab992/32.png) [@Quercus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quercus)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2015, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-mister-watson/733787/32 "2015-10-08T19:36:59Z")
Of course if the question is why does _Holmes_ introduce him as “Dr. Watson”, we can pretty easily guess that Holmes is intentionally letting his clients know that here is a person trained in hearing intimate details, sympathizing, trying to help, and keeping confidentiality. I mean, introducing “Dr. Watson” is much better than “Good-morning, madam,” said Holmes cheerily. “My name is Sherlock Holmes. This is my intimate friend and associate, Mr. Watson, a reporter for the _National Inquirer_, before whom you can speak as freely as before myself…" ---
**Author:** ![Sauron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce7236/32.png) [@Sauron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sauron)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2015, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-mister-watson/733787/33 "2015-10-08T21:42:31Z")
> [@DrCube](#): > > Did Dr. Watson retire though? I don’t know the specifics of British military retirement in the 1880s, but I thought Watson did a few years in Afghanistan and that’s it. He wasn’t a career officer. He was invalided out of the Army because of the wound in his shoulder (or leg). During his early association with Holmes, he lived primarily on his Army pension, although he later bought a practice and resumed his work. He sold his practice late in the canon so he could resume full-time adventuring with Holmes. His medical qualifications were never in doubt, though, because in _His Last Bow_, which takes place on the eve of World War I, Holmes mentions that Watson is re-joining the service as a doctor. Watson was probably in his late 50s or early 60s at that point. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2015, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-mister-watson/733787/34 "2015-10-08T22:12:34Z")
> [@CGav8r](#): > > Speaking to the earlier cited British-ism of calling surgeons “Mr.”, wouldn’t he be addressed as “Dr. Watson” preclude him from being a surgeon? Not if he had a doctorate in another subject entirely. ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2015, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-mister-watson/733787/35 "2015-10-08T22:30:07Z")
> [@SciFiSam](#): > > As your footnote says, Gillian McKeith does not hold a legitimate American PhD. > > Sometimes dentists and the like are referred to as Dr. So are other PhD holders. Not all dentists hold the equivalent of a doctorate, but those who do can use Dr if they want. They don’t usually but they can if they want to. My more specialised dentists at the dental hospital do use Dr in their title, but my dentist at my local practice does not. I’m pretty sure all dentists in the US are required to have a DDS degree, which is considered of equivalent rank to a MD. ---
**Author:** ![Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slow_moving_vehicle/32/291_2.png) [@Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slow_Moving_Vehicle)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2015, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-mister-watson/733787/36 "2015-10-08T23:05:19Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > Doctors are “Dr.”. \*Surgeons \*are “Mr.” And this can be cited from the canon itself: [QUOTE=The Hound of the Baskervilles] “And now, Dr. James Mortimer—” “Mister, sir, Mister—a humble M.R.C.S.” [_Member, Royal College of Surgeons_] [/QUOTE] At time, “surgeon” was a title for a lower degree of medical education. “Physician” denoted advanced training. It’s analogous to a Master’s versus a Ph.D. ---
**Author:** ![Loopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loopus/32/15343_2.png) [@Loopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loopus)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2015, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-mister-watson/733787/37 "2015-10-08T23:19:45Z")
> [@Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](#): > > And this can be cited from the canon itself: > > At time, “surgeon” was a title for a lower degree of medical education. “Physician” denoted advanced training. It’s analogous to a Master’s versus a Ph.D. It should be noted that, despite Moritmer’s (single) protest, he is invariably referred to as “Dr Mortimer” throughout the novel (both in narration and to his face in dialogue), to the point that it makes me wonder about the actual practice of the time. Seeing as how Doyle himself was a medical doctor, I assume he’d know. I suppose it should also be noted that Dr Mortimer appears to work as a “country doctor,” doing the job of a GP despite whatever degrees he holds. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2015, 4:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-mister-watson/733787/38 "2015-10-09T04:02:19Z")
> [@Sauron](#): > > …in _His Last Bow_, which takes place on the eve of World War I, Holmes mentions that Watson is re-joining the service as a doctor. Watson was probably in his late 50s or early 60s at that point. As did Conan Doyle, going off to serve as an Army doctor in South Africa during the Boer War at age 41. ---
**Author:** ![SciFiSam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/47e85d/32.png) [@SciFiSam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SciFiSam)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2015, 1:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-mister-watson/733787/39 "2015-10-09T13:29:37Z")
> [@CGav8r](#): > > Speaking to the earlier cited British-ism of calling surgeons “Mr.”, wouldn’t he be addressed as “Dr. Watson” preclude him from being a surgeon? I think surgeons are only called Mr in the hospital, at work. A plastic surgeon I know is definitely Dr outside work (on forms and the like). ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2015, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-mister-watson/733787/40 "2015-10-09T14:21:55Z")
> [@SciFiSam](#): > > I think surgeons are only called Mr in the hospital, at work. A plastic surgeon I know is definitely Dr outside work (on forms and the like). Sometimes even in the hospital. I recently had eye problems and was being treated by an ophthalmologist listed as Doctor K. On a later visit she was listed as Mrs K, so I congratulated her on her promotion, only for her to tell me that she’d long been a surgeon. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-mister-watson/733787.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-mister-watson/733787.md?page=3)