# Why not move tax day to Oct. 15?
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-move-tax-day-to-oct-15/702334
**Category:** Politics & Elections
**Created:** [October 24, 2014, 7:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-move-tax-day-to-oct-15/702334 "2014-10-24T07:30:33Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 2
### Author:  [@BigAppleBucky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigAppleBucky)
#### Post date: [October 24, 2014, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-move-tax-day-to-oct-15/702334/21 "2014-10-24T17:03:44Z")
> [@adaher](#):
>
> **Why not move tax day to Oct. 15?**
>
> Republicans often joke that if election day was Apr. 15, they’d never lose an election. But while you can’t move election day, you can move tax day. And in an era when Democrats are doing everything they can to set the election system up so that they will have an advantage, early voting, mail-in voting, no ID voting, etc. and justifying it as wanting everyone to vote, moving tax day to Oct. 15 gives the GOP the perfect response: a bigger electorate is a good thing, but a well informed electorate is also a good thing. So why not have voters vote when what they paid in taxes is fresh in their minds? Even better, eliminate withholding. Reagan opposed withholding because he felt that taxes should hurt. Withholding is a way of taking advantage of people’s expectations: after awhile, they don’t really miss the money. But if everyone had a big tax bill to pay on Oct. 15, that might focus some minds.
>
> I realize this post will probably draw quite a bit of snark, and that’s okay. But what I really want to know is why this might be an impractical or bad idea.
Well, most tax payers are calendar year based. Want their returns to be filed nine and a half months after year end instead of three and a half? Besides, given that the vast majority of tax payers have either withholdings or make estimated payments, there would be relatively few of them required to pay checks in October and a larger number of them getting government checks for refunds and thus more favorably disposed toward the federal government.
So on every level, the idea is stupid.
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### Author:  [@twickster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/twickster)
#### Post date: [October 24, 2014, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-move-tax-day-to-oct-15/702334/22 "2014-10-24T17:36:43Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#):
>
> :rolleyes: [Psychological projection](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychological_projection) is now a treatable disorder. Seek help.
I have given you a warning for personal insults for this post.
**twickster** , Elections moderator
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### Author:  [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)
#### Post date: [October 24, 2014, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-move-tax-day-to-oct-15/702334/23 "2014-10-24T17:48:12Z")
No, no, I think **adaher** is onto something here. But his idea just needs a little tweaking.
He suggests moving tax day to October 15, and he suggests eliminating withholding. How about a compromise: starting on October 15, Republicans should start campaigning heavily on a platform of eliminating withholding. Remind everyone that Republicans want you to feel pain and want the government to inconvenience people. Somebody get Karl Rove on this pronto!
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### Author:  [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)
#### Post date: [October 24, 2014, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-move-tax-day-to-oct-15/702334/24 "2014-10-24T17:48:43Z")
> [@adaher](#):
>
> We’ve lived without it before. Withholding didn’t start until WWII, and the state of California didn’t institute withholding for their income tax until after Reagan left office.
IOW, when the world was completely different we did things in a different way. Therefore we can do those things in today’s different world and they will be completely successful.
Bravo to you! I’ve never seen a more concise exposition of conservative thinking and why it is always wrong.
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### Author:  [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)
#### Post date: [October 24, 2014, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-move-tax-day-to-oct-15/702334/25 "2014-10-24T20:25:49Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#):
>
> For many Republicans, allowing people to vote without hassles or hitches is helping the Democrats.
And, you know what? It usually **is!** But that’s no civic, partisan-neutral argument against it, quite the reverse, if you think about it.
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### Author:  [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)
#### Post date: [October 24, 2014, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-move-tax-day-to-oct-15/702334/26 "2014-10-24T20:28:01Z")
> [@twickster](#):
>
> I have given you a warning for personal insults for this post.
>
> **twickster** , Elections moderator
:dubious: Would it be different if I had left off the “Seek help”?
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### Author:  [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)
#### Post date: [October 24, 2014, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-move-tax-day-to-oct-15/702334/27 "2014-10-24T20:41:28Z")
> [@adaher](#):
>
> I’d also note that property taxes are for many taxpayers as big as their income tax bill(bigger if they have little or not income tax liability), but we don’t withhold that. People can receive a large tax bill and pay it and it doesn’t impact the efficiency of revenue collection much.
That’s because in California, to continue your example, property taxes are insanely limited… so most property owners pay the equivalent in an endless monthly round of sewer, water, garbage, schools assessment, school bus fees, special assessment districts… there isn’t all that much left to pay on the “tax bill” after that.
(We pay a property tax rate that would make Prop-13ers faint… and basically not one extra dime for any town/school/civic services. Add it up, tax-busters. Oh - we also control the tax rate through local budget votes. California has an uncontrolled slush fund for everything.)
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### Author:  [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)
#### Post date: [October 25, 2014, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-move-tax-day-to-oct-15/702334/28 "2014-10-25T00:15:30Z")
> [@TimeWinder](#):
>
> I take it you didn’t actually read your cite. It actually concludes there was very little fraud, just a bunch of paperwork screw-ups and some voter confusion, and that some policies should be changed. Even in the “double vote” cases, every one ends with “there is no evidence the voter actually voted twice.”
>
> Further, I took your advice (but I used Bing, so there!), and only three people actually convicted for absentee ballot fraud show up in the first page of hits across the entire country. In fact, virtually all of the hits are some form of “the number of fraud convictions are so low as to clearly be a manufactured reason for voter ID laws” variety.
Convictions are not the entire measure of the problem anymore than they are with any other crimes. Geez, if we only went by convictions, then crime across the board would drop like a stone!
When looking at issues of crime, convictions only tell us WHO done it, not whether it was done. For that, we do crime surveys, asking questions like, “Hey, been assaulted lately?” or go by reported crimes(which also understates the crime rate vastly.
Absentee ballot fraud is where most of the actual convictions are though, so it would behoove us to not just mail out ballots to people who haven’t requested them. Right now in Colorado you’ve got people canvassing houses asking them if they’ve voted yet. “What? Um, no.” “Did you receive your ballot?” “Um, yeah, but I don’t remember where i put it.” Yeah, that’s a safe and secure system.
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### Author:  [@TimeWinder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TimeWinder)
#### Post date: [October 25, 2014, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-move-tax-day-to-oct-15/702334/29 "2014-10-25T01:51:12Z")
> [@adaher](#):
>
> Convictions are not the entire measure of the problem anymore than they are with any other crimes. Geez, if we only went by convictions, then crime across the board would drop like a stone!
So your position has turned around 180 degrees in a few posts, right? Because I talked about convictions because _you_ specifically asked us to Google the word. But now convictions aren’t what you’re talking about.
I can’t even figure out which side of your nonsensical arguments you’re arguing for any more, so I guess Yay! You Win!
If you can just Gish Gallop reality in the same fashion, you’ll be golden.
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### Author:  [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)
#### Post date: [October 25, 2014, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-move-tax-day-to-oct-15/702334/30 "2014-10-25T02:11:21Z")
Curious political strategy: let’s make Americans miserable so our party can win elections.
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### Author:  [@thelurkinghorror](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelurkinghorror)
#### Post date: [October 25, 2014, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-move-tax-day-to-oct-15/702334/31 "2014-10-25T04:09:50Z")
Am I missing something? Aside from the no-withholding thing, taxes are _ **already** _ [due on October 15](http://taxes.about.com/od/Federal-Income-Taxes/qt/tax-deadlines.htm) (or a few days later if weekend etc.). All you gotta do is have a handle on your income and complete a fucking easy form. Or else if you’re almost certainly getting a refund, file whenever you want within 3 years, or even not, you will just be throwing away money.
Some people are quite frankly incapable of planning for tax day, and this would be orders of magnitude worse if they had to pay a big bill at once. Hell, even people who can plan will feel the “hurt,” and I don’t see what that will accomplish.
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### Author:  [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)
#### Post date: [October 25, 2014, 5:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-move-tax-day-to-oct-15/702334/32 "2014-10-25T05:03:23Z")
> [@adaher](#):
>
> Convictions are not the entire measure of the problem anymore than they are with any other crimes. Geez, if we only went by convictions, then crime across the board would drop like a stone!
So you’re taking your message of “We want fewer people to vote” and doubling down with “We don’t believe in innocent until proven guilty.”
The Republican party might put you on the policy board I’m guessing they won’t be inviting you to speak at any public events.
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### Author:  [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)
#### Post date: [October 25, 2014, 5:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-move-tax-day-to-oct-15/702334/33 "2014-10-25T05:04:28Z")
> [@Ravenman](#):
>
> Curious political strategy: let’s make Americans miserable so our party can win elections.
The secret is blaming the other side for what you’ve done.
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### Author:  [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)
#### Post date: [October 25, 2014, 7:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-move-tax-day-to-oct-15/702334/34 "2014-10-25T07:07:11Z")
Yeah, this thread has definitely been eye-opening for me. “It’s a good thing that not everybody can vote — so good, that we want to make it harder! And yeah, it’ll be good for Republicans, but who cares?”
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### Author:  [@asterion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asterion)
#### Post date: [October 25, 2014, 10:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-move-tax-day-to-oct-15/702334/35 "2014-10-25T10:35:46Z")
> [@thelurkinghorror](#):
>
> Am I missing something? Aside from the no-withholding thing, taxes are _ **already** _ [due on October 15](http://taxes.about.com/od/Federal-Income-Taxes/qt/tax-deadlines.htm) (or a few days later if weekend etc.). All you gotta do is have a handle on your income and complete a fucking easy form.
Well, that’s true if you’re self-employed. For us wage slaves who get a W-2, we file once a year with a due date of April 15 (with the ability to get an extension if needed.)
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### Author:  [@thelurkinghorror](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelurkinghorror)
#### Post date: [October 25, 2014, 11:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-move-tax-day-to-oct-15/702334/36 "2014-10-25T11:16:45Z")
> [@asterion](#):
>
> Well, that’s true if you’re self-employed. For us wage slaves who get a W-2, we file once a year with a due date of April 15 (with the ability to get an extension if needed.)
It’s true for almost everybody; that’s the extension and you can get an extra six months. It just isn’t automatic. Self employed people don’t get anything special as far as I know. They are forced to file, even if it’s pretty damn obvious that a refund of coming (although exempt from filling if the income is a trivial amount). Most normal employees don’t bother as the benefit is minimal and it only gives a delay in filing; it does not give you more time to pay the man.
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### Author:  [@Lord\_Feldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Feldon)
#### Post date: [October 25, 2014, 11:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-move-tax-day-to-oct-15/702334/37 "2014-10-25T11:53:58Z")
If this is really going to work, maybe tax day should be every other year. That way there could be double the [del]pain[/del] learning before voting. Every tax could be collected a short while before the authority that raises it is elected!
We could even get rid of the sales taxes and just have a use tax. Why should retailers be forced to do tax collection? That keeps the [del]pain[/del] learning too distant. Everybody can just keep all their receipts and audit them a month before the relevant election.
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### Author:  [@42fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/42fish)
#### Post date: [October 25, 2014, 12:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-move-tax-day-to-oct-15/702334/38 "2014-10-25T12:23:50Z")
Heck, let’s require everyone at the polling place to undergo a seven-year audit before they’re allowed to cast their ballot, and make sure taxes are really fresh on their mind.
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### Author:  [@Zakalwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zakalwe)
#### Post date: [October 25, 2014, 1:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-move-tax-day-to-oct-15/702334/39 "2014-10-25T13:24:22Z")
> [@thelurkinghorror](#):
>
> Am I missing something? Aside from the no-withholding thing, taxes are _ **already** _ [due on October 15](http://taxes.about.com/od/Federal-Income-Taxes/qt/tax-deadlines.htm) (or a few days later if weekend etc.). All you gotta do is have a handle on your income and complete a fucking easy form. Or else if you’re almost certainly getting a refund, file whenever you want within 3 years, or even not, you will just be throwing away money.
Not quite correct. Your tax FILING is due on October 15 (if you filed for the extension). Any estimated TAX is still due April 15 or you have to pay interest.
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### Author:  [@thelurkinghorror](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelurkinghorror)
#### Post date: [October 25, 2014, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-move-tax-day-to-oct-15/702334/40 "2014-10-25T18:22:39Z")
> [@Zakalwe](#):
>
> Not quite correct. Your tax FILING is due on October 15 (if you filed for the extension). Any estimated TAX is still due April 15 or you have to pay interest.
Do you think that the last sentence of every post is always a signature? That was already noted in what you quoted. But if you don’t pay by April 15-18, you may owe interest **and** penalties.
Extensions are nice for tax preparation because it gives the preparer more breathing room, and allows a longer period of consistent pay (but if you cannot budget, don’t work taxes!).
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