# Why not move the U.S. capital? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 6, 2020, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-move-the-u-s-capital/927351 "2020-12-06T01:31:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2020, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-move-the-u-s-capital/927351/41 "2020-12-06T21:28:51Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Take the USDA, for instance: While there’s some value in having USDA officials able to interact in person with Congressmembers, surely there’s more value in them interacting in person with farmers. Which you’ll find a lot more of in the vicinity of Kansas City than in the vicinity of Washington. The USDA already has people all over hte country who are in contact with farmers. The people who were being moved last year had no reason to move. It was purely a spiteful manoeuvre. ---
**Author:** ![flurb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/51bf81/32.png) [@flurb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flurb)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2020, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-move-the-u-s-capital/927351/42 "2020-12-06T22:12:31Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > The USDA already has people all over hte country who are in contact with farmers. And this is true for all federal agencies – only 15% of federal civilian employees are located in the greater DC area ([cite](https://www.opm.gov/policy-data-oversight/data-analysis-documentation/federal-employment-reports/reports-publications/federal-civilian-employment/)). The vast majority of the federal workforce already live in the communities they assist, and not in some Washington bubble. The senior leadership of agencies and departments live and work in Washington, but the people in those positions are also constantly traveling to meetings, conventions, regional tours, etc. This isn’t to argue that there isn’t a “bubble” for people in these positions, but it’s not about geography. It’s about regularly engaging with the same industry representatives, lobbyists, interest groups and others stakeholders in their field. And that’s going to happen wherever you set up headquarters. ---
**Author:** ![asterion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4da419/32.png) [@asterion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asterion)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2020, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-move-the-u-s-capital/927351/43 "2020-12-06T23:48:41Z")
The “classic” science fiction location for a moved US (or successor state) capital is Denver. Though of course that was generally well before metro Denver became as massive as it is now. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2020, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-move-the-u-s-capital/927351/44 "2020-12-07T01:47:38Z")
> [@Brayne\_Ded](#): > > Custom-made capitals are dull places. _coughs, clears throat:_ Washington DC. ---
**Author:** ![Civil\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/d78d45/32.png) [@Civil\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Civil_Guy)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2020, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-move-the-u-s-capital/927351/45 "2020-12-07T02:04:24Z")
If they wanted to move the Smithsonian Museum, they could probably save some relocation costs by simply mailing some of the exhibits to the new location. (I expect that many Dopers will get the reference here.) No, I don’t see any benefit from moving the capital. ---
**Author:** ![Bootb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e19b73/32.png) [@Bootb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bootb)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2020, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-move-the-u-s-capital/927351/46 "2020-12-07T02:28:37Z")
I’m surprised nobody has yet mentioned the BLM move. [https://www.blm.gov/office/national-office/hq-move-west](https://www.blm.gov/office/national-office/hq-move-west) ---
**Author:** ![Bootb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e19b73/32.png) [@Bootb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bootb)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2020, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-move-the-u-s-capital/927351/47 "2020-12-07T02:30:19Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > I think Yang’s idea was a bad one. There’s a reason businesses like to centralize their operations; it’s more efficient and it makes for more effective management. You must have missed the consensus on this board that government **shouldn’t** be run like a business. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2020, 3:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-move-the-u-s-capital/927351/48 "2020-12-07T03:18:39Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > The only difference will be they’ll be complaining about those faceless bastards in Joplin, Missouri instead of those faceless bastards in Washington, DC > [@flurb](#): > > The vast majority of the federal workforce already live in the communities they assist, and not in some Washington bubble. > … > This isn’t to argue that there isn’t a “bubble” for people in these positions, but it’s not about geography. It’s about regularly engaging with the same industry representatives, lobbyists, interest groups and others stakeholders in their field. And that’s going to happen wherever you set up headquarters Exactly. Within mere months of setting up the new _Fort Capital District Business Only No Residents We Mean It No Maternity Ward Inside_, the former K-Streeters will fill up office parks in whatever civilian-inhabited city grows around the front gate, and by the end of the next presidency chef José Andrés will have set up restaurants there, a theatre hosting the finest Opera companies and Broadway tours will open, and I may get in trouble if I mention what other classes of entepreneur will be in business the very day after the move. They are not going to refuse to hit the Midwest if that’s where the seat of government is. And Congressman Heartlander may affect being “a Man Of The People” (in spite of his 1percenter net worth) but his 30ish Legislative Director is going to want some quality of life in exchange for the thankless hard work. > [@DrDeth](#): > > > [@Brayne\_Ded](#): > > > > Custom-made capitals are dull places. > > _coughs, clears throat:_ Washington DC. Which has the advantage of a 200 year head start and a location at the Eastern Fall Line, at what was then the head of navigation of a major river and a natural stop on the land route between the major cities of the incipient nation, an easy ride away from the homes of some of the major Founders, where the town of Alexandria had already sprung (originaly inside the District). So it was not deliberately plunked in the middle-of-nowhere, and especially after the Civil War it had the chance to grow organically into a real city as opposed to a mere garrison town. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2020, 3:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-move-the-u-s-capital/927351/49 "2020-12-07T03:48:12Z")
> [@Bootb](#): > > You must have missed the consensus on this board that government **shouldn’t** be run like a business. Government isn’t a business. But there are principles like efficiency and effectiveness that are important to both. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2020, 4:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-move-the-u-s-capital/927351/50 "2020-12-07T04:23:43Z")
> [@Bootb](#): > > You must have missed the consensus on this board that government **shouldn’t** be run like a business. I’ve said that, and loudly. But centralization and decentralization are not purely business concepts. And businesses alternately centralize and then decentralize as the previous procedure proves to be less than exemplary. Citing business in the same sentence as whether to centralize or not is a losing proposition. The main problem with the OP - assuming that it was meant in any way seriously, which I doubt - is that it’s also based on a false premise. Government is not based in Washington, but in the greater [Washington-Baltimore Combined Statistical Area](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baltimore%E2%80%93Washington_metropolitan_area). This is an immense region of over 9 million people, less than 10% of which is Washington. It already is representative of the country and can’t seriously be charged with the nonsense that is sometimes thrown at it. Even better it’s now one of the wealthiest, fastest-growing, and most dynamic CSAs in the country. It cannot be replicated, without totally gutting it and destroying the economy both of the region and of the country as a whole. The economy of the region is centered around the federal district but it in no way synonymous with it. The part of it that is government is also in no way synonymous with the federal district. Anyone who thinks that a new federal district will accomplish anything other than destruction and devastation is abstracted from reality. ---
**Author:** ![Heffalump\_and\_Roo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/heffalump_and_roo/32/7691_2.png) [@Heffalump\_and\_Roo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Heffalump_and_Roo)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2020, 7:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-move-the-u-s-capital/927351/51 "2020-12-07T07:04:47Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > If you move these agencies and decentralize them, maybe. I think it would probably be a good move to relocate some parts of the bureaucracy, but moving the congress, white house, and courts in and of itself won’t change the culture because they are the center of power, and that problem will follow the capital wherever it goes. Regardless of where you put the capital, there will always be people trying to influence what happens within its circles. Maybe, but I can think of at least one example where some people might have access to voice their opinion. Remember when Congress was having hearings on the ACA? A bunch of people went to protest, and that’s what changed the calculus of the vote. If the Congressional hearings were in the middle of the country, more people from the middle of the country would have access to protest. And it would be equal for people on the coasts. That might, at least, give some people more of a voice. > [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > I think Yang’s idea was a bad one. There’s a reason businesses like to centralize their operations; it’s more efficient and it makes for more effective management. Is this true? [From Harvard Business Review](https://hbr.org/2017/12/when-to-decentralize-decision-making-and-when-not-to): > [@](#): > > It’s common today for decision-making to be pushed down and out in the organization, toward the people who are closest to the front lines. The theory is that by decentralizing control, you can make your organization faster and nimbler. But you can’t do that with every decision, so how do you decide which decisions to keep centralized? It can be useful > [@Ruken](#): > > Which, after 9 months of remote work, most of us surely realize is inadequate. There are real benefits to meatspace interaction. Whether they outweigh other legitimate points, I’m not sure. But let’s not pretend it doesn’t matter. Maybe it depends on the industry. [Twitter and Square](https://www.cnn.com/2020/05/12/tech/twitter-work-from-home-forever/index.html) and [Facebook](https://www.cnet.com/news/facebooks-zuckerberg-says-employees-will-be-able-to-work-from-home-permanently/) are allowing their WFH people to work remotely permanently. [Google](https://www.cnet.com/news/google-wont-be-entirely-remote-ceo-says-while-other-tech-giants-tout-permanent-work-from-home-options/) will allow it until June 2021. It remains to be seen how the companies will fare. > [@Acsenray](#): > > This is bullshit. The problem isn’t that people in Washington, D.C., have a skewed view of the rest of the country. It’s that it’s to some people’s advantage to claim that it’s so. So, the result is the opposite—people around the country have a misconception of the people in Washington, D.C. Yes, but what allows this to continue? I would contend that at least one factor is that they’ve created a very insular culture in DC. They don’t have to answer to anyone because the people around them go along. It’s interesting to me that the elected officials in the swing states won’t go against the will of the voters in certifying the vote. I think that one reason is because they still have to live in that community and would get a lot of pushback if they did. > [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > People will still be making the same complaints. The only difference will be they’ll be complaining about those faceless bastards in Joplin, Missouri instead of those faceless bastards in Washington, DC. That’s possible, but I think it will take some time to create that kind of culture in another place. > [@flurb](#): > > This isn’t to argue that there isn’t a “bubble” for people in these positions, but it’s not about geography. It’s about regularly engaging with the same industry representatives, lobbyists, interest groups and others stakeholders in their field. And that’s going to happen wherever you set up headquarters. Agreed. This will need to change as well. That’s actually the more fundamental change that would need to happen to make any of the rest change. > [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > It already is representative of the country and can’t seriously be charged with the nonsense that is sometimes thrown at it. > > Even better it’s now one of the wealthiest, fastest-growing, and most dynamic CSAs in the country. Could you explain this a little more? It sounds like a contradiction. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2020, 11:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-move-the-u-s-capital/927351/52 "2020-12-07T11:41:21Z")
> [@Heffalump\_and\_Roo](#): > > I would contend that at least one factor is that they’ve created a very insular culture in DC. They don’t have to answer to anyone because the people around them go along. There’s nothing true about this. And were it true, moving the capital wouldn’t change it. > [@Heffalump\_and\_Roo](#): > > elected officials There are a few hundred elected officials in Washington. The government is made up of tens of thousands of people. And again, being in Washington is no less “among the people” than were the capital to be moved to, say, Kansas. _Any location one might choose would be exactly the same._\* All you would be doing is punishing people who live and work in Washington, exactly like what happened with the Kansas City incident last year. ---
**Author:** ![Heffalump\_and\_Roo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/heffalump_and_roo/32/7691_2.png) [@Heffalump\_and\_Roo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Heffalump_and_Roo)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2020, 1:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-move-the-u-s-capital/927351/53 "2020-12-07T13:18:11Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > > [@Heffalump\_and\_Roo](#): > > > > I would contend that at least one factor is that they’ve created a very insular culture in DC. They don’t have to answer to anyone because the people around them go along. > > There’s nothing true about this. And were it true, moving the capital wouldn’t change it. Maybe not. But there’s a perception that there is. Maybe even the change in perception will go a long way to changing things. > **[Grenell says Trump is working to break DC’s insular political culture](https://nypost.com/2020/06/09/grenell-trump-working-to-break-dcs-insular-political-culture/)** > > The White House’s former acting director of national intelligence said the political struggle, as opposed to being between Republicans and Democrats, is now between Washington and the rest of… > [@](#): > > “The fact of the matter is, we have a real problem in Washington, DC, because it’s a system that it no longer is Republicans and Democrats pushing against each other to create good policy. It’s a fight between Washington and the rest of America,” Richard Grenell [said on Fox News’ “Tucker Carlson Tonight”](https://www.foxnews.com/media/ric-grenell-politics-2020-washington-vs-america) on Monday. > > “What we have [is] a system in Washington where people get jobs if you’re there, if you know someone and you work your way up, and it’s like musical chairs from one agency to another,” he said. “There is no outside thought, there’s no outside perspective.” What makes you sure that it’s not true? Or at least the perception isn’t held by many. To preempt your argument that it’s just one [stupid] Republican saying things, I’ll just say that almost half the country voted the way they did for a reason. It’s been surmised a number of times that this might be one of the reasons. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2020, 1:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-move-the-u-s-capital/927351/54 "2020-12-07T13:25:59Z")
> [@Heffalump\_and\_Roo](#): > > Maybe not. But there’s a perception that there is. Maybe even the change in perception will go a long way to changing things. No it wouldn’t. Nothing even a little bit. Because the same kind of people who benefit from spreading this kind of lie now will continue to benefit from it. “Those out of touch bureaucrats on Washington” will become “Those out of touch bureaucrats in Kansas” without missing a beat. You’re never going to successfully address demagoguery and propaganda by “addressing” the problems that demagogues and propagandists purportedly identify because they don’t actually care about the truth of what’s they’re saying. Trump is the perfect example. If he says he is worried about election security then actually doing something to improve election security won’t change anything because he doesn’t actually care about election security. This is exactly the same thing. By even taking these “concerns” seriously you’re just playing into their hands. And the OP and anyone even entertaining the OP—this is evidence that some people are internalizing the propaganda, lies, and bigotry against the ordinary people of Washington and those who work in government. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2020, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-move-the-u-s-capital/927351/55 "2020-12-07T13:38:36Z")
Having the capitol be located in the heartland of America isn’t a bad idea but it isn’t worth the immense cost and hassle to move. ---
**Author:** ![Heffalump\_and\_Roo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/heffalump_and_roo/32/7691_2.png) [@Heffalump\_and\_Roo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Heffalump_and_Roo)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2020, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-move-the-u-s-capital/927351/56 "2020-12-07T13:42:00Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > No it wouldn’t. Nothing even a little bit. Because the same kind of people who benefit from spreading this kind of lie now will continue to benefit from it. I’m not saying that this move would cure all of government’s ills. Not by a long shot. Are you saying that Washington isn’t insular and that there are no problems with the way things are working now? ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2020, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-move-the-u-s-capital/927351/57 "2020-12-07T13:50:13Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > “Those out of touch bureaucrats on Washington” will become “Those out of touch bureaucrats in Kansas” without missing a beat. For an example of this, just look at New York state; a lot of people rail against “those bureaucrats in Albany” even though Albany is a small city surrounded by relatively rural countryside, as opposed to as if New York’s capitol had been located in Manhattan. Although - there are indeed out-of-touch bureaucrats in government; that isn’t a misrepresentation. ---
**Author:** ![Red\_Wiggler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/red_wiggler/32/13190_2.png) [@Red\_Wiggler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Wiggler)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2020, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-move-the-u-s-capital/927351/58 "2020-12-07T14:51:20Z")
Out of curiosity I looked it up, the population center of the US per the 2010 census was near Plato, MO, population 109. So Joplin was a pretty good guess though if we ever complete the '20 census, the center will probably shift closer to Springfield (_Springfield!_), only a 76 mile drive from Plato. Our new capital could be a Clooney-ish geographical oddity, three hour flights from everywhere, not to mention an eternal tribute to _The Simpsons_. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2020, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-move-the-u-s-capital/927351/59 "2020-12-07T15:02:37Z")
> [@Heffalump\_and\_Roo](#): > > Are you saying that Washington isn’t insular and that there are no problems with the way things are working now? While there is a problem, it’s completely unrelated to the physical location of Washington DC. ---
**Author:** ![Heffalump\_and\_Roo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/heffalump_and_roo/32/7691_2.png) [@Heffalump\_and\_Roo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Heffalump_and_Roo)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2020, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-move-the-u-s-capital/927351/60 "2020-12-07T15:43:36Z")
> [@Telemark](#): > > While there is a problem, it’s completely unrelated to the physical location of Washington DC… What is it related to? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-move-the-u-s-capital/927351.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-move-the-u-s-capital/927351.md?page=4)