ive got the perfect solutiuon to the problem i think
lets destroy the poppy fields by whatever means
for those that argue about how the pesants are gonna manage well just ask them to start growing marijuana
we can even donate the seeds ourselves
then we buy all that weed off them at a subsidised rate and distribute it freely around the world spreading happiness
and people will have better things to do than fight wars
Perhaps we could just legalize drugs, and provide narcotics for free or at a nominal cost. The bottom would fall out of the heroin market. Dealers, smugglers, and growers would no longer find any profit to be made. People who use poor enough judgment to become addicts would at least get an unadulterated product and wouldn’t have to mug people or rob banks and convenience stores to support their addictions. We could use all the money for drug enforcement for other purposes, some of it to provide drug treatment to addicts.
:rolleyes: I don’t think cannabis is suited to the kind of arid conditions in which opium poppies will grow.
I’m with reprise on this one; subsidise the cultivation of suitable alternative crops; bulbous plants such as saffron, garlic, onions, tulips are native to that region and should do very well.
Or we, in the west, could presumably wean ourselves from our drug habits and deny them their profitable market ?
I don’t believe napalming a field is as easy as it sounds (fields are big), and I know that doing so would make the farmers hate us with a vengeance.
Getting the farmers to plant something else ? Presumably the Al Queda has some enforcement in those areas. A band of bearded guys with AK-47s on your doorstep are a hell of alot more convincing than any leaflet with threats and promises. Especially if you can see your neighbor’s farm burning down the road. Believe me, you plant what they tell you to plant. Perhaps the US will napalm it and you’ll starve, but possible hunger in six months beats a bullet here and now.
Nah, we need to get the thugs out of the equation.
S. Norman
Like napalming the VC in Vietnam?
Ok sorry it was defenceless little children and the county is suffering the Ecological fall out 40 years later.
How about keeping up with the conversation instead of sniping? The napalm thing became a non-issue long ago, when we realized that there might be other solutions.
Besides, your analogy is rather flawed. Think. We weren’t napalming specific discrete targets in Vietnam. We were dropping napalm to kill people.
Please look at this again. If own a plot of land and the only thing I can do with it is grow Cannabis I don’t think law enforcement is going to go “Oh only thing that will grow there, OK I guess we have to let it go then.” Uh yeah sure, and the branch davidians in Waco couldn’t do anything but be arms dealers. I am not a big fan of the war on drugs myself but this sounds like the thinnest argument in the world. If they can grow poppies, they can grow something else. Mangetout cited that saffron is native to that area. Have you ever purchased saffron? I think heroin is cheaper!
I also agree that the “scorched earth” system isn’t an answer either. So why don’t we develop a “tailored” herbicide or geneticly engineered plant disease that only kills opium poppies. Apply liberally over fields, poppies go away.
I had heard that there was something like this developed for Cannabis but I am unaware if this is true.
Poppys are pretty hardy and low-maintenance. Most food crops are not. Poppys produce opium to discourage wildlife from eating them. Food crops are bred to produce as much nutrition as possible.
*Originally posted by drachillix *
We are talking about a country in which “ownership” of a plot of land is a very fluid concept. A country which has been all but bombed back into the Stone Age over the last 30 years. A country still littered with landmines (have a look at the landmine density map published by the UN - it might shock you to realise just how little of Afghanistan is landmine-free). A country in which the population has been constantly moving for three decades to avoid either military agression or the ravages of climate.
The Taliban is the law in Afghanistan, and they’ve only recently started giving a damn about opium production. Ironically, when they outlawed opium production in the areas they control, they wanted the West to purchase the opium crops which are stockpiled (the article is easy to find in the Media Awareness Project index I linked to in an earlier post).
Yes, saffron is a high value crop - but I seriously doubt the worldwide demand for saffron anywhere near approaches the worldwide demand for opium. While farmers might (and I certainly wouldn’t assume they will) get a higher price for saffron per kilo than they do for raw opium (quoted in one of the UN articles as around $30 per kilo), they aren’t necessarily going to be able to sell as many kilos. I’m unsure of how difficult saffron is to grow and process, but I’m sure someone else will know - it may be beyond the capabilities of your average peasant farmer. In a country with little infrastructure, are they going to be able to transport their crop to the marketplace?
OK, this one’s a bit of a stretch, but I’m hoping to illustrate a concept here. Alcohol is a perfectly legal substance in most Western nations. In many Muslim nations it is totally forbidden and there are extreme penalties for possessing or consuming it. Would you consider those Muslim nations justified in asking that the West cease alcohol production because consumption of alcohol is undermining Muslim society? I suspect that the best response those nations could hope for from the West is that we’d make it illegal to export alcohol to those Muslim nations and basically tell them that it’s their responsibility to stop it from entering their country once it leaves ours (legally or illegally).
Leaving aside the Taliban’s about faces on the issue (because they’ll probably lift the prohibition again just to piss off the US), isn’t bombing the poppy fields (even with something species-specific) just a little bit too much like the scenario referred to above?
In truth, the West can, and undoubtedly will, make the eradication of the opium crops one of the conditions of rebuilding Afghanistan (in which case other opium growing nations will pick up the slack). It’s just extremely arrogant of us to assume that we have the right to deprive a nation of its most lucrative cash crop simply because we don’t agree with the uses to which that crop is put. Just because we in the West think “drugs are bad m’kay” doesn’t give us the right to interfere with the sovereignty of other nations to decide whether the production or use of drugs in their own country should be legal - in fact to do so would be the very antithesis of the very democratic rights we keep saying so loudly they “need”.
I’d love to but uh… where?
Saffron is a very low-maintenance, perennial crop (although it is usually dug up and replanted after the third year); it’s easy to process and transport to markets in the dried state, unfortunately it is a very low-yield crop (only producing something like 10 kilos per acre), but it is highly valuable (retail around $200 per kilo), but still, probably not as profitable as opium, however, with the right subsidies or relief tariffs, maybe…
My apologies for not posting a link to one of the maps. The one published in Time magazine isn’t available in their archives and the State Department’s site is being updated. As soon as I find another online map of landmine density, I’ll post the link in this thread.
I didn’t realise my son had logged on to the SDMB overnight. The above post was actually made by me.
Realizing that the conversation has mostly passed this, but…
Naping the poppies has been tried elsewhere. It doesn’t work real well as opium poppies are d*mned hardy, and grow right back.
The particular map I wanted shows mine density, but I haven’t located it online yet (I still have 10 pages of maps to get through though, so I live in hope). This map will at least give you some idea of the areas of Afghanistan where some kind of mine clearing activity is taking place.
I’ll keep searching for the landmine density map, because when you realise how many landmines there are per square kilometre, it becomes apparent just how dangerous farming has becomes in many regions of Afghanistan.