# Why not Sen. Kirsten Gillibrand for President in the 2020 Democratic Primary? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [November 14, 2018, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-sen-kirsten-gillibrand-for-president-in-the-2020-democratic-primary/824508 "2018-11-14T15:21:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Covfefe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ee7513/32.png) [@Covfefe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Covfefe)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2018, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-sen-kirsten-gillibrand-for-president-in-the-2020-democratic-primary/824508/61 "2018-11-16T21:28:24Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Why can’t Warren win back the rust belt? She’s spent her whole career fighting for the working clas. That’s her defining issue. And that’s just what the non-deplorable portion of the Rust Belt wants. That’s why the Democrats used to do well in the Rust Belt, because there was a time when they were all perceived as being like Warren. I think Warren’s speech cadence puts people off, as unfair as that may be, and makes her come across as puritanical. What would exacerbate this, at least nationally, is an instance like a few months ago where she said in a speech our criminal justice system is “racist from top to bottom”. When she doesn’t cede an inch of ground that maybe she gained at least an appearance of benefit from affirmative action that wasn’t entirely received as intended, it is too easy for people who aren’t familiar with a politician like her to look away from her qualifications and fall into the trap of thinking this is another holier-than-thou “do as I say, not as I do” political animal in different camouflage. I don’t think she could be viable and afford to make sweeping moralizing pronouncements. I haven’t listened to much of her though and would have to listen to more of her speeches to get a better idea. ---
**Author:** ![Bijou\_Drains](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bijou_drains/32/2814_2.png) [@Bijou\_Drains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bijou_Drains)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2018, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-sen-kirsten-gillibrand-for-president-in-the-2020-democratic-primary/824508/62 "2018-11-16T21:33:00Z")
To me Warren’s main problem for now is her dumb decision to not only do the DNA test but then to release the results when it showed she had such a small part of Native American DNA . ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2018, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-sen-kirsten-gillibrand-for-president-in-the-2020-democratic-primary/824508/63 "2018-11-17T01:47:54Z")
I WANT to like Gillebrand, but every time I see/hear her, I’m less and less impressed. Most recent was on TDS. My wife’s comment was that she “lacked gravitas.” I said she didn’t come across as a deep thinker. Don’t get me wrong. I would very much love to have a woman president. And a president under 60 (not to mention 70!) And if she’s the Dem nominee, I’ll happily vote for her. But - I dunno - she doesn’t get me excited. Before Hillary lost, I would never have guessed the depth of misogyny that would allow us a black president but not a woman. And freaking women voting to Trump instead of Hillary! I’m so happy to see the diverse class of incoming Dems. SOME woman has to be the first eventually. Is Gillebrand that woman? I dunno. ---
**Author:** ![tim314](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tim314/32/3468_2.png) [@tim314](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tim314)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2018, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-sen-kirsten-gillibrand-for-president-in-the-2020-democratic-primary/824508/64 "2018-11-17T02:03:09Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > That’s one of the biggest points in her favor, IMO. She was one of the bravest Democrats in that particular instance, bucking the older conventional-wisdom crowd and recognizing that with #MeToo we need to treat sexual assault and harassment much more seriously. And Franken used to be my very favorite Senator. I’m 100% in agreement with you on this. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2018, 2:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-sen-kirsten-gillibrand-for-president-in-the-2020-democratic-primary/824508/65 "2018-11-17T02:42:56Z")
> [@What\_Exit](#): > > Here are 11 other serious options as per [the Washington Post](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2018/03/23/the-top-15-democratic-presidential-candidates-for-2020-ranked-2/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.f355b0f86b8b): > California Sen. **Kamala D. Harris** , not bad but California is tough to overcome than NY. That’s not an English sentence. Anyway, I don’t think Kamala has credibility with the Berniecrats, and maybe it’s a bad time to run someone educated in Canada. I like her, but I don’t have a lot of faith in her chances. > [@](#): > > New Jersey Sen. **Cory Booker** , he’s my Senator, he isn’t Obama, his track record is not strong, but maybe. He does not seem suited to life under a microscope. > [@](#): > > Connecticut Sen. **Chris Murphy** I don’t know him. > [@](#): > > Former Virginia governor **Terry McAuliffe** _Another_ Clinton Democrat trying to move in a more progressive direction. Why him, though? > [@](#): > > Former Massachusetts governor **Deval Patrick** “Why him and not Warren?” would be the cry heard round the land. > [@](#): > > Ohio Sen. **Sherrod Brown** , interesting as he is in the Rust Belt. This is Connie Schultz’s husband. Not a terrible idea on its face. > [@](#): > > New York Gov. **Andrew M. Cuomo** , I can’t seem to find anyone in the area that likes him. I don’t think he’s a strong candidate. The less likable Cuomo brother. No. > [@](#): > > Former U.S. attorney general **Eric Holder** Well, I don’t expect much, but he does have some relevant experience. > [@](#): > > New Orleans Mayor **Mitch Landrieu** , this is quite a stretch. Yeah, sounds like a stretch. > [@](#): > > **Oprah Winfrey** , you know, she might just win, but would that be a good thing? It would not. Can we get Whoopi Goldberg to run instead? Or Sara Gilbert? > [@](#): > > Montana Gov. **Steve Bullock** , an little known moderate Dem Governor of a red state. If he could get some name recognition, might be one of those candidates that could rally independents. Nice guy, not ready for the Presidency. > [@Paranoid\_Randroid](#): > > For background, I’m an Ohioan originally from Kentucky. I’ve observed in folks I’m acquainted with (very loosely acquainted with, I hasten to add) an utterly _intense_ dislike for Elizabeth Warren, one out of proportion with anything she’s alleged to have done. How she became a boogeywoman I can’t say, but I suspect she’d have an uphill climb. Well, I wonder. How widespread is that attitude, and where does it come from? > [@DrDeth](#): > > No the Rust belt wants their factory jobs back. The terrible horrible but secure “go to work for the same company for 30 years and retire with a watch and a small pension” jobs. The ones that no longer exist and \*no one \*can bring back. The ones that Trump lied about giving those poor people false hope. They also dont trust anyone from the “elite” East Coast. Then why are they fine with Trump, Ann Coulter, Brett Kavanaugh, etc.? And Warren is from \*Oklahoma. \*Maybe you are being misled as to whom they do and do not trust. ---
**Author:** ![Ulf\_the\_Unwashed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Ulf\_the\_Unwashed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ulf_the_Unwashed)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2018, 3:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-sen-kirsten-gillibrand-for-president-in-the-2020-democratic-primary/824508/66 "2018-11-17T03:55:36Z")
> [@Dinsdale](#): > > I WANT to like Gillebrand, but every time I see/hear her, I’m less and less impressed. Most recent was on TDS. My wife’s comment was that she “lacked gravitas.” I said she didn’t come across as a deep thinker. > > Don’t get me wrong. I would very much love to have a woman president. And a president under 60 (not to mention 70!) And if she’s the Dem nominee, I’ll happily vote for her. But - I dunno - she doesn’t get me excited. > > Before Hillary lost, I would never have guessed the depth of misogyny that would allow us a black president but not a woman. And freaking women voting to Trump instead of Hillary! I’m so happy to see the diverse class of incoming Dems. SOME woman has to be the first eventually. Is Gillebrand that woman? I dunno. Interesting…I have heard her speak in person, back when she was a US Representative, and while I would not have said that she was especially exciting or charismatic, I would absolutely say that she came across as highly articulate, very smart in general, and highly knowledgeable about the issues. Her career arc also points to some smarts, at least political ones… –being elected to what was considered a safe Republican seat (two registered GOP voters for every Democrat) in a conservative part of NY state; –well, okay, the incumbent was enmeshed in a scandal, so maybe that wasn’t so difficult; but then she went out and won the seat again almost 2-1 against an opponent with a great many positives and no scandal attached; –then managed to get herself appointed to a Senate seat against what seemed to be very long odds (and despite the wrath of several pols, mostly based in NYC, who wanted the seat very badly); –then established a broad enough base of support as senator that several of these competitors, who were determined to challenge her, decided they’d better not; –and has racked up some of the highest percentages of any statewide candidate in NY history in her Senate races, the first of which, at least, was supposed to be close. Now some of that was indeed shifting positions, and I don’t know how well that’ll play, especially because she’ll be seen as Hillary Clinton Jr. (white woman senator from NY with a streak of opportunism); and it may be that like you too many people will find her less than inspirational, and then there’s the Big Tobacco connection, not to mention the Al Franken thing–so I ain’t putting money or her. But I do think she’s very sharp, and unusually skilled at the art of politics. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2018, 4:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-sen-kirsten-gillibrand-for-president-in-the-2020-democratic-primary/824508/67 "2018-11-17T04:51:03Z")
> [@What\_Exit](#): > > We don’t need the best candidate to make core Democrats happy, we need the best candidate to win in 2020. Winning the rust belt back is really important. Winning indy votes is really important. The real question is, is she the one to do that? It isn’t \*\*Warren \*\*that is for sure. **Biden & Sanders** are pretty damn old already. > > Here are 11 other serious options as per [the Washington Post](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2018/03/23/the-top-15-democratic-presidential-candidates-for-2020-ranked-2/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.f355b0f86b8b): > California Sen. **Kamala D. Harris** , not bad but California is tough to overcome than NY. > New Jersey Sen. **Cory Booker** , he’s my Senator, he isn’t Obama, his track record is not strong, but maybe. > Connecticut Sen. **Chris Murphy** > Former Virginia governor **Terry McAuliffe** > Former Massachusetts governor **Deval Patrick** > Ohio Sen. **Sherrod Brown** , interesting as he is in the Rust Belt. > New York Gov. **Andrew M. Cuomo** , I can’t seem to find anyone in the area that likes him. I don’t think he’s a strong candidate. > Former U.S. attorney general **Eric Holder** > New Orleans Mayor **Mitch Landrieu** , this is quite a stretch. > **Oprah Winfrey** , you know, she might just win, but would that be a good thing? > Montana Gov. **Steve Bullock** , an little known moderate Dem Governor of a red state. If he could get some name recognition, might be one of those candidates that could rally independents. Based on what little I know now, I prefer **Sherrod Brown** from that group, with perhaps **Kamala Harris** as a distant second. But that 8 month-old W.P. opinion had eight more names on a “Worth Watching” list: Former HUD secretary **Julián Castro** California Gov. **Jerry Brown** Colorado Gov. **John Hickenlooper** Sen. **Amy Klobuchar** (Minn.) Los Angeles Mayor **Eric Garcetti** Sen. **Jeff Merkley** (Ore.) former Starbucks chief executive **Howard Schultz** Rep. **Luis V. Gutiérrez** (Ill.) The above is the order they were listed in the article — is it in order of likelihood or popularity? I like all four of the first four names on this list; however Jerry Brown is much older than Biden and would be 90 years old at the end of a 2nd term. (Ninety with an N!) ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2018, 6:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-sen-kirsten-gillibrand-for-president-in-the-2020-democratic-primary/824508/68 "2018-11-17T06:26:27Z")
Mahatir Muhammad wants a word. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2018, 8:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-sen-kirsten-gillibrand-for-president-in-the-2020-democratic-primary/824508/69 "2018-11-17T08:41:45Z")
> [@foolsguinea](#): > > Then why are they fine with Trump, Ann Coulter, Brett Kavanaugh, etc.? And Warren is from \*Oklahoma. \*Maybe you are being misled as to whom they do and do not trust. Because Trump \*lied \*to them, and they were desperate enough to _believe_ him. I dont think he’d fool them again, but they are desperate. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2018, 8:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-sen-kirsten-gillibrand-for-president-in-the-2020-democratic-primary/824508/70 "2018-11-17T08:43:01Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > Mahatir Muhammad wants a word. What does the Prime Minister of Malaysia have to do with this? 😕 ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2018, 12:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-sen-kirsten-gillibrand-for-president-in-the-2020-democratic-primary/824508/71 "2018-11-17T12:38:28Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > What does the Prime Minister of Malaysia have to do with this? 😕 I mentioned Jerry Brown’s age. Mahathir is 93 years old. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2018, 12:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-sen-kirsten-gillibrand-for-president-in-the-2020-democratic-primary/824508/72 "2018-11-17T12:42:16Z")
And re-elected after 15 years in May, ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2018, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-sen-kirsten-gillibrand-for-president-in-the-2020-democratic-primary/824508/73 "2018-11-17T14:33:19Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > And re-elected after 15 years in May, So what, doesn’t make Jerry Brown the least bit electable in the US. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2018, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-sen-kirsten-gillibrand-for-president-in-the-2020-democratic-primary/824508/74 "2018-11-17T15:44:52Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > however Jerry Brown is much older than Biden and would be 90 years old at the end of a 2nd term. (Ninety with an N!) As Ronald Reagan said, “I will not make an issue of my opponent’s youth and inexperience.” ---
**Author:** ![Disgruntled\_Penguin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a8b319/32.png) [@Disgruntled\_Penguin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Disgruntled_Penguin)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2018, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-sen-kirsten-gillibrand-for-president-in-the-2020-democratic-primary/824508/75 "2018-11-17T16:52:36Z")
> [@What\_Exit](#): > > So what, doesn’t make Jerry Brown the least bit electable in the US. No, but if he moves to Malaysia look out. ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2018, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-sen-kirsten-gillibrand-for-president-in-the-2020-democratic-primary/824508/76 "2018-11-17T17:00:03Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > Which of course is why Tammy Duckworth, Amy Klobuchar, Debbie Stabenow, Tammy Baldwin, among others, have been so unelectable in the Midwest. Oh. Wait. > > No doubt there are some who vote informed by some misogyny … but the dislike of Warren is not mostly based on that. Despite her working class origins and her advocacy of working class issues, she has developed a national image that is of the intelligentsia. Voters of the Rust Belt working class think of her as an East Coast egghead elite and not as one of them. > > Maybe she could market that perception away but it would be an uphill slog. Being elected Senator is a different deal than being elected President. A woman you know who is one of you from your home state is different than getting votes three states away. Its a much higher hurdle to overcome. I can speak to Amy Klobuchar, having been a Minnesotan whose followed her for a long time. She wouldn’t have won here without her last name. Her father was beloved. She’s great, don’t get me wrong, but Jim Klobuchar means nothing outside Minnesota. ---
**Author:** ![Ulf\_the\_Unwashed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Ulf\_the\_Unwashed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ulf_the_Unwashed)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2018, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-sen-kirsten-gillibrand-for-president-in-the-2020-democratic-primary/824508/77 "2018-11-17T17:02:12Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > As Ronald Reagan said, “I will not make an issue of my opponent’s youth and inexperience.” 🙂 Of course, Reagan was only 73 when he said that, and heading for a second term rather than a first. Compared to Brown, talk about youth and inexperience… I dunno, Brown is only three years older than Bernie Sanders, and Sanders seems to have quite a lot of support despite the fact that he would finish a second term at age 87. Not sure I see much of a difference there. ---
**Author:** ![sps49sd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@sps49sd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sps49sd)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2018, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-sen-kirsten-gillibrand-for-president-in-the-2020-democratic-primary/824508/78 "2018-11-17T18:55:47Z")
> [@Dinsdale](#): > > Before Hillary lost, I would never have guessed the depth of misogyny that would allow us a black president but not a woman. And freaking women voting to Trump instead of Hillary! Hilary expected that every female would and should vote for her for the sole reason that she was also female. Castigating female voters because they disagreed with her positions or actions or whatever reason sounds like missing the point. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2018, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-sen-kirsten-gillibrand-for-president-in-the-2020-democratic-primary/824508/79 "2018-11-17T20:13:42Z")
> [@sps49sd](#): > > Hilary expected that every female would and should vote for her for the sole reason that she was also female… Cite? ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2018, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-sen-kirsten-gillibrand-for-president-in-the-2020-democratic-primary/824508/80 "2018-11-17T20:54:48Z")
Oh, if she didn’t think that, she sure gave that impression. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-sen-kirsten-gillibrand-for-president-in-the-2020-democratic-primary/824508.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-sen-kirsten-gillibrand-for-president-in-the-2020-democratic-primary/824508.md?page=5)