# Why not stick with daylight savings time all year? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [November 4, 2010, 1:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-stick-with-daylight-savings-time-all-year/559445 "2010-11-04T13:05:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![gladtobeblazed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/85f322/32.png) [@gladtobeblazed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gladtobeblazed)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2010, 1:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-stick-with-daylight-savings-time-all-year/559445/61 "2010-11-05T13:17:24Z")
It’s not that I hate sunlight, it’s that I hate the 100+ degree heat it brings in the summer. I’d rather shift the hottest hours to earlier in the day so I can actually go enjoy the outdoors, even if that is at night. I’d be happy to have DST in the winter. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2010, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-stick-with-daylight-savings-time-all-year/559445/62 "2010-11-06T01:27:45Z")
Spo you’re _not_ glad to be blazed. You’re glad to be chilled. ---
**Author:** ![taffygirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b5a626/32.png) [@taffygirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/taffygirl)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2010, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-stick-with-daylight-savings-time-all-year/559445/63 "2010-11-06T03:15:46Z")
I LOATHE changing time in the spring. I’m a teacher, and believe me, the entire first week after the switch to DST means a week of sleepy, grumpy teen-agers…well, sleepiER, grumpiER teen-agers. :)And when my own kids were small, I especially detested it. Little kids just don’t want to go to bed or to sleep when it’s still light outside. If DST doesn’t save fuel, which was the reason it was instituted in the first place, then why do we still switch? But I’d take DST if we had it all year round. It’s the big change in spring (In fall, I am partially mollified by the extra hour of sleep.) that ticks me off. Just pick a plan and stick to it. ---
**Author:** ![Amblydoper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/fbc32d/32.png) [@Amblydoper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amblydoper)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2010, 3:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-stick-with-daylight-savings-time-all-year/559445/64 "2010-11-06T03:54:37Z")
What if School didn’t start so early? Keep DST all year round and move the school start time to 8:30 instead of 8. - Kids don’t “go to school in the dark” anymore\* (because that 30 second walk from Mom’s Suburban to the front doors can be treacherous in the dark). - No more time changes and the roll eyes and forgetfulness and bullshit that goes along with it all. - Every kid in the country gets a later bedtime (If kids could vote, this would pass unanimously). - No more “soul-crushing” 4:30 sunsets in the depressing winter months. The only drawback is the darkness during the morning commute, but that’s a trade off that only “morning people” would oppose. It’d be a bit of a downer for them, but the world would be a better place if they weren’t so damn chipper all the time. - And for those of you that complain about having to adjust your schedules to get the kids to school later, reread the Soccer Mom comment and parse it for snarkiness, then look up a bloody bus schedule. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2010, 4:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-stick-with-daylight-savings-time-all-year/559445/65 "2010-11-06T04:11:24Z")
> [@Amblydoper](#): > > - And for those of you that complain about having to adjust your schedules to get the kids to school later, reread the Soccer Mom comment and parse it for snarkiness, then look up a bloody bus schedule. Works just fine if you have a parent at home who’s schedule isn’t terribly affected by getting the kids out the door a half-hour later; if you have a single, working parent (or two working parents) who need to get out the door for work earlier than 8:30, it might not work nearly as well. And, school start and end times are by no means universal; many laws regarding school operating hours are done at the state, if not the local, level. I’m not saying your idea is impossible, just that it’s likely far more complicated than you present it to be. ---
**Author:** ![Cheshire\_Human](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/5f8ce5/32.png) [@Cheshire\_Human](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheshire_Human)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2010, 4:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-stick-with-daylight-savings-time-all-year/559445/66 "2010-11-06T04:37:42Z")
> [@acsenray](#): > > It’s not the getting up an hour early that’s the point. It’s having an extrahour of daylight after standard business hours that is useful. An extra hour of daylight isolated before work is of no useto me, even if I’m awake. That’s why I said “agitate for business hours you like”. Why do we have to fuck with the standard that “noon means sun at zenith, midnight means half a solar day later”? You’d still be getting up an hour early, going to work an hour early, and get that extra precious hour of daylight after work, and I wouldn’t have to keep adjusting to this useless DST, and how it fucks with international time conversions and astronomical calculations and shit. ---
**Author:** ![Cheshire\_Human](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/5f8ce5/32.png) [@Cheshire\_Human](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheshire_Human)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2010, 4:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-stick-with-daylight-savings-time-all-year/559445/67 "2010-11-06T04:52:42Z")
> [@tdn](#): > > It’s right. March 21st is the only day when the Sun is at its zenith at exactly noon. On other days it can vary by as much as 16.5 minutes ahead or behind. It’s about that much ahead today. There are other days when the zenith is at noon, but they’re not the same days every year. Even the autumnal equinox can vary between the 20th and 22nd, I believe. > > That’s due to both the tilt of the Earth and its eliptical orbit. (Google on “equation of time” if you want to find out more.) > > How much Sun we gain or lose is not really even from day to day. If you want to ballpark it, it’s about a minute per day in middle latitudes. But if you were to graph it, it wouldn’t look like a triangle wave, it would look like a sine wave. (Sort of.) The amount of change per day really slows down around the solstices. This is a picture of what you are trying to describe: [Annalemma](http://content.stamen.com/talks/where_20_2008/files/annalemma.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2010, 5:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-stick-with-daylight-savings-time-all-year/559445/68 "2010-11-06T05:06:53Z")
> [@gladtobeblazed](#): > > It’s not that I hate sunlight, it’s that I hate the 100+ degree heat it brings in the summer. I’d rather shift the hottest hours to earlier in the day so I can actually go enjoy the outdoors, even if that is at night. I’d be happy to have DST in the winter. Why don’t you just stay a few extra hours at work? You can even earn some overtime! And how many children actually walk to school these days, anyway? _grumble grumble evil lake goblins grumble_ ---
**Author:** ![Cheshire\_Human](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/5f8ce5/32.png) [@Cheshire\_Human](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheshire_Human)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2010, 5:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-stick-with-daylight-savings-time-all-year/559445/69 "2010-11-06T05:41:33Z")
> [@even\_sven](#): > > Why don’t you just stay a few extra hours at work? You can even earn some overtime! > > And how many children actually walk to school these days, anyway? > > _grumble grumble evil lake goblins grumble_ Yes, this is my point exactly. Set the time to one thing. Time zones to follow the longitude lines (with minor tweaking for convenience due to political boundaries) and be set based on mean local solar noon. Then everyone agitate your legislators or bosses for work hours that match what sun conditions you prefer, and stop fucking with the official civil time twice a year. No matter who you try to please with civil time mucking, you are going to displease just as many people who prefer different sunlight conditions. ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2010, 5:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-stick-with-daylight-savings-time-all-year/559445/70 "2010-11-06T05:57:43Z")
Another vote for so called DST year round. I’m at 39 degrees north. I drive into work in the dark in winter in either case. I go in early, year round so I have a bit of light when I come home to walk the dogs or plow the drive. I guess the only thing to consider is kids going to school. Farmers don’t care. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2010, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-stick-with-daylight-savings-time-all-year/559445/71 "2010-11-06T13:50:54Z")
> [@Cheshire\_Human](#): > > That’s why I said “agitate for business hours you like”. Ah so you want me to waste my time tilting at windmills then … Trying persuade millions of individual business manager to vary business hours throughout the year based on sunlight. It would never witlrk anyway because there’s no way that customers, suppliers, etc., would bs able to keep track. > [@](#): > > Why do we have to fuck with the standard that “noon means sun at zenith, midnight means half a solar day later”? Because in real life this standard is inapplicable and arbitrary and invonsequential > [@](#): > > You’d still be getting up an hour early, going to work an hour early, and get that extra precious hour of daylight after work, and I wouldn’t have to keep adjusting to this useless DST, and how it fucks with international time conversions and astronomical calculations and shit. People like you will use software to adjust. Astronomical calculations? It’s a calculation. Insert another term and the world won’t notice. ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2010, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-stick-with-daylight-savings-time-all-year/559445/72 "2010-11-06T17:28:52Z")
> [@JRDelirious](#): > > > [@spark240](#): > > > > The long summer evenings are _there_ no matter what the clock says. > > > > “Daylight savings” all year long or “standard time” all year long are the same thing, just with slightly different labels on the hours. > > Fine, then let’s pick times of the year when all non-agricultural employers and educational institutions will start and finish the dayshift workday one civil hour number earlier or later than the rest of the year, so as to make use of that sunlit time for other activities. There’s no reason for “all non-agricultural employers and educational institutions” to keep the same schedule to begin with, or to make seasonal shifts on the same basis. Each business or institution can make its own decision; most everybody’s still going to be active during the same core hours regardless. > [@acsenray](#): > > > [@Cheshire\_Human](#): > > > > That’s why I said “agitate for business hours you like”. > > Ah so you want me to waste my time tilting at windmills then … Trying persuade millions of individual business manager to vary business hours throughout the year based on sunlight. It would never witlrk anyway because there’s no way that customers, suppliers, etc., would bs able to keep track. But why should you care what millions of people you’re not dealing with do? Lobby for the hours that work for you at your own place of employment (or just for yourself–usually not everybody in the same business really needs to arrive and depart en masse, either). Look, businesses _already_ have differing schedules. If you’re a customer or supplier who _must_ accomplish a transaction first or last thing in the day, you already have to know those schedules _for the businesses important to you_. Most transactions don’t need to happen early or late and will naturally take place during the core hours when most places are open anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Ximenean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/aca169/32.png) [@Ximenean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ximenean)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2010, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-stick-with-daylight-savings-time-all-year/559445/73 "2010-11-06T18:13:29Z")
> [@Cheshire\_Human](#): > > No matter who you try to please with civil time mucking, you are going to displease just as many people who prefer different sunlight conditions. This is just not true. Daylight Savings only persists when it is generally popular. As mentioned above, the US and the UK have experimented with all-year DST. The experiments were abandoned, presumably due to vociferous complaints from some quarters. But we persist with DST, because it is very popular. Call it the tyranny of the majority if you like, but it’s a big majority in this case. Arguments such as “why doesn’t everybody just get up an hour earlier” seem to completely miss the point of DST, which is that it achieves exactly the same thing in a much more efficient way. There are downsides, yes, but they’re nothing compared to the totally impractical problem of persuading every single person to change their daily schedule. ---
**Author:** ![Ignatz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/3be4f8/32.png) [@Ignatz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ignatz)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2010, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-stick-with-daylight-savings-time-all-year/559445/74 "2010-11-06T18:21:22Z")
BTW, it’s Daylight Saving Time, not Daylight Savings Time. FIS73 ---
**Author:** ![Cheshire\_Human](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/5f8ce5/32.png) [@Cheshire\_Human](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheshire_Human)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2010, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-stick-with-daylight-savings-time-all-year/559445/75 "2010-11-06T22:34:58Z")
> [@Ignatz](#): > > BTW, it’s Daylight Saving Time, not Daylight Savings Time. > > FIS73 I prefer to refer to it as “Dumbass Stupid Time”, myself. ---
**Author:** ![NoiseBomb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/49beb7/32.png) [@NoiseBomb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NoiseBomb)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2010, 4:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-stick-with-daylight-savings-time-all-year/559445/76 "2010-11-07T04:52:17Z")
All of us who work later shifts aren’t affected in the slightest. The sun is in the sky when I go in, and it’s fully dark when I leave. Changing the clocks is an annoyance, nothing more. I can never remember how to change the clock in my car either. Let’s split the difference, offset the clocks by 30 minutes and leave it there. I’ve favored this for years and know I’ve read some thread on here saying the same thing. ---
**Author:** ![user\_hostile](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/user_hostile/32/474_2.png) [@user\_hostile](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/user_hostile)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2010, 5:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-stick-with-daylight-savings-time-all-year/559445/77 "2010-11-07T05:03:46Z")
Count my vote for DST being a waste of time at the North Pole. ---
**Author:** ![TonyRockyHorror](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/d26b3c/32.png) [@TonyRockyHorror](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TonyRockyHorror)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2010, 7:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-stick-with-daylight-savings-time-all-year/559445/78 "2010-11-07T07:03:59Z")
I work in the real world and in the real world when your job doesn’t suck you have what we call flextime. If you can’t change your schedule to enjoy more light it’s a problem with your career choices not with the concept of time. ---
**Author:** ![EvilTOJ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee59a6/32.png) [@EvilTOJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EvilTOJ)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2010, 8:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-stick-with-daylight-savings-time-all-year/559445/79 "2010-11-07T08:15:55Z")
All I know is I’m stuck at work for 9 hours instead of 8 because of the bloody time change. AND my boss is here so no napping, drinking, OR whoring either. I’m on salary too, so no OT for me oh boy. ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2010, 1:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-stick-with-daylight-savings-time-all-year/559445/80 "2010-11-07T13:12:22Z")
> [@Cheshire\_Human](#): > > This is a picture of what you are trying to describe: > [Annalemma](http://content.stamen.com/talks/where_20_2008/files/annalemma.jpg) Awesome, thanks! [Here](http://www.hartrao.ac.za/other/sundial/eqtime.gif) is a very different picture of exactly the same thing. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-stick-with-daylight-savings-time-all-year/559445.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-stick-with-daylight-savings-time-all-year/559445.md?page=5)