# Why not use embedded computer chips to lower corruption and crime? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 28, 2009, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-use-embedded-computer-chips-to-lower-corruption-and-crime/519261 "2009-11-28T19:04:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![The\_Cleveland\_Steamer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/cdc98d/32.png) [@The\_Cleveland\_Steamer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Cleveland_Steamer)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2009, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-use-embedded-computer-chips-to-lower-corruption-and-crime/519261/1 "2009-11-28T19:04:26Z")
End the use of physical money. All transactions involve embedded computer chips. The transactions can be tracked. Try cheating on your taxes now. Or dealing drugs. Or taking a bribe as a public official. Try to jump bail, get caught when you next try to buy lunch. ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2009, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-use-embedded-computer-chips-to-lower-corruption-and-crime/519261/2 "2009-11-28T19:24:30Z")
There’s still barter. Or foreign currency. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Cleveland\_Steamer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/cdc98d/32.png) [@The\_Cleveland\_Steamer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Cleveland_Steamer)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2009, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-use-embedded-computer-chips-to-lower-corruption-and-crime/519261/3 "2009-11-28T19:28:38Z")
> [@Grumman](#): > > There’s still barter. Or foreign currency. Which is why it will only lower c & c. ---
**Author:** ![independentminded](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/ed8c4c/32.png) [@independentminded](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/independentminded)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2009, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-use-embedded-computer-chips-to-lower-corruption-and-crime/519261/4 "2009-11-28T19:40:01Z")
The idea of embedded computer chips in people is a total violation of Civil Liberties, imho. I hate the idea that our government will know exactly where one is and what they’re doing at any given moment, and could be tracked down. Scary, indeed!! ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2009, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-use-embedded-computer-chips-to-lower-corruption-and-crime/519261/5 "2009-11-28T19:43:36Z")
It’d be interesting to know how many people involved in illegal activities _now_ keep it in cash? I imagine that most of the stuff that stays cash is small transactions like drug deals, in which case even if we used some sort of electronic tracking, I don’t really see how it would help. A guy that makes a bunch of 20$ dollar transactions might be selling drugs…or magazines or mowing lawns or whatever. As far as corruption goes, my impression is that even now political bribery tends to be in the form of quid pro quo type arrangements instead of explicit payments. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Cleveland\_Steamer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/cdc98d/32.png) [@The\_Cleveland\_Steamer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Cleveland_Steamer)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2009, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-use-embedded-computer-chips-to-lower-corruption-and-crime/519261/6 "2009-11-28T19:47:50Z")
> [@independentminded](#): > > The idea of embedded computer chips in people is a total violation of Civil Liberties, imho. I hate the idea that our government will know exactly where one is and what they’re doing at any given moment, and could be tracked down. Scary, indeed!! Who said the chips could be tracked any moment? It would be no different than a debit card (except it’s embedded). ---
**Author:** ![wmfellows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c2a13f/32.png) [@wmfellows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wmfellows)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2009, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-use-embedded-computer-chips-to-lower-corruption-and-crime/519261/7 "2009-11-28T20:02:52Z")
> [@Grumman](#): > > There’s still barter. Or foreign currency. Or use of precious metals or use of disguised transactions or use of “script” (rather than legal tender of the sovereign). ---
**Author:** ![Oregon\_sunshine](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/50afbb/32.png) [@Oregon\_sunshine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oregon_sunshine)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2009, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-use-embedded-computer-chips-to-lower-corruption-and-crime/519261/8 "2009-11-28T20:11:26Z")
Will the People just meekly submit to this, or will the embedding of chips be forced, in this new economic utopia? :eek: ---
**Author:** ![robby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robby/32/11048_2.png) [@robby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robby)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2009, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-use-embedded-computer-chips-to-lower-corruption-and-crime/519261/9 "2009-11-28T20:14:23Z")
> [@wmfellows](#): > > Or use of precious metals or use of disguised transactions or use of “script” (rather than legal tender of the sovereign). I believe you are thinking of [scrip](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scrip). ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2009, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-use-embedded-computer-chips-to-lower-corruption-and-crime/519261/10 "2009-11-28T20:34:24Z")
> [@The\_Cleveland\_Steamer](#): > > Who said the chips could be tracked any moment? Are they RFID chips? Then they can be read at a distance. ---
**Author:** ![Zsofia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/7bcc69/32.png) [@Zsofia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zsofia)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2009, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-use-embedded-computer-chips-to-lower-corruption-and-crime/519261/11 "2009-11-28T21:18:28Z")
They’re also expensive - we use them at the library and the tags are 50 cents a piece, which adds up in a serious hurry. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2009, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-use-embedded-computer-chips-to-lower-corruption-and-crime/519261/12 "2009-11-28T21:24:01Z")
And then only the people who have them can participate in the market, and everyone who doesn’t have one will be hunted and persecuted. Then Jesus will come down and kill everyone who has a computer chip. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![The\_Cleveland\_Steamer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/cdc98d/32.png) [@The\_Cleveland\_Steamer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Cleveland_Steamer)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2009, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-use-embedded-computer-chips-to-lower-corruption-and-crime/519261/13 "2009-11-28T21:37:06Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > And then only the people who have them can participate in the market, and everyone who doesn’t have one will be hunted and persecuted. Then Jesus will come down and kill everyone who has a computer chip. 😉 I’ll take my chances. Jesus is a pussy. ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2009, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-use-embedded-computer-chips-to-lower-corruption-and-crime/519261/14 "2009-11-28T21:50:40Z")
You could hack into a system like that and screw it up. Security agencies and software companies are aware of the vulnerabilities of software programs. So it would be very vulnerable. Paper money is also vulnerable (you can steal and rob people) however it is not as centralized as computer chips. Plus it would be a civil liberty violation Plus it would anger all of the end timers who feel it is a sign of the anti-christ Plus it could be gotten around. Other forms of exchange like bartering could be used. A drug dealer could find ways to launder his income via bartering if he needed to. I realize counterfeiting is a problem today (North Korea has an advanced counterfeiting ring involving US $100 bills). But I think it’d be worse under this system. North Korea counterfeits money. Organized crime counterfeits DVDs and software programs. I think this system would be even more vulnerable. However there are benefits. The global underground economy (drugs, human trafficking, prostitution, stolen goods) is over half a trillion dollars a year. So maybe a better tracking system of small purchases would put a dent in that. Either way, aren’t the big transactions in the global economy all electronic anyway? In the US economy, there is only $908 billion in actual cash, globally it is about 4 trillion. > **[How Much Actual Money Is There in the World?](https://money.howstuffworks.com/how-much-money-is-in-the-world.htm)** > > If we took all the U.S. dollars, British pounds and every other currency out there and added them up, how much would it come to? Find out why it's so hard to figure out how much money there is in the world. The rest is stored electronically. And the US economy is about 15 trillion and the global economy is about 60 trillion. But there are endless trillions (probably quadrillions) worth of infrastructure and goods on the planet. All the buildings, machines, infrastructures, equipment, etc. The point is that most of the world’s wealth is already exchanged in a traceable fashion from what I can see. So I don’t think this would make a big difference unless it came to combating the underground economy. However I bet they’d find a way around it. ---
**Author:** ![FriarTed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/friarted/32/1052_2.png) [@FriarTed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FriarTed)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2009, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-use-embedded-computer-chips-to-lower-corruption-and-crime/519261/15 "2009-11-28T21:52:49Z")
> [@The\_Cleveland\_Steamer](#): > > I’ll take my chances. > > Jesus is a pussy. That’s because the movies just show His nice side. When Jesus pops the tops on the Seven Cans o’Whup-Ass in Revelation 16, we’ll see who’s crying like little bitches with skinned knees.\* (The Jay & Silent Bob Version.) ---
**Author:** ![independentminded](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/ed8c4c/32.png) [@independentminded](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/independentminded)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2009, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-use-embedded-computer-chips-to-lower-corruption-and-crime/519261/16 "2009-11-28T21:59:31Z")
> [@The\_Cleveland\_Steamer](#): > > Who said the chips could be tracked any moment? It would be no different than a debit card (except it’s embedded). I disagree with you, Cleveland Steamer. Once the government starts implanting computer chips into criminals, who’s to say that our government won’t get a program going to implant chips into average, ordinary, everyday, law-abiding citizens? It’s safe to say that they will. I don’t like the idea of having a chip implanted in me so that my every move could be monitored. Sorry. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2009, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-use-embedded-computer-chips-to-lower-corruption-and-crime/519261/17 "2009-11-28T22:01:11Z")
> [@The\_Cleveland\_Steamer](#): > > I’ll take my chances. > > Jesus is a pussy. [Jesus is Way Cool](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GUrqaJZH-04) ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2009, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-use-embedded-computer-chips-to-lower-corruption-and-crime/519261/18 "2009-11-28T22:02:13Z")
> [@independentminded](#): > > I disagree with you, Cleveland Steamer. Once the government starts implanting computer chips into criminals, who’s to say that our government won’t get a program going to implant chips into average, ordinary, everyday, law-abiding citizens? It’s safe to say that they will. I don’t like the idea of having a chip implanted in me so that my every move could be monitored. Sorry. That and you CAN theoretically track someone by the chip in their debit card. ---
**Author:** ![FriarTed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/friarted/32/1052_2.png) [@FriarTed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FriarTed)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2009, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-use-embedded-computer-chips-to-lower-corruption-and-crime/519261/19 "2009-11-28T22:04:56Z")
Seriously, if I were a serviceman stationed in Iraq or Afghanistan, I’d beg them to chip me so if I were captured, they could track me, and if they just could not rescue me, I’d sign a paper beforehand giving them permission to bomb the Hell out of my captors. ---
**Author:** ![independentminded](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/ed8c4c/32.png) [@independentminded](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/independentminded)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2009, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-use-embedded-computer-chips-to-lower-corruption-and-crime/519261/20 "2009-11-28T23:46:33Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > That and you CAN theoretically track someone by the chip in their debit card. First of all, if somebody doesn’t have a debit card, then they can’t be tracked down, then. Secondly, even if somebody does have a debit card, does that mean that they can be tracked down at the movies, when they’re out for a walk or bicycle ride, or even visiting friends and/or family, in or out of state? Christ, I sure hope not. That’s the danger of implanted computer chips in humans. One instance where implanted chips can be and are an advantage, is if they’re implanted in pets, which is happening now. That can and has worked in instances where somebody’s pet has been lost or stolen, enabling the rightful owner(s) to recover their pet(s). [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-use-embedded-computer-chips-to-lower-corruption-and-crime/519261.md?page=2)