# Why not Vote for Roy Moore? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 12, 2017, 4:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-vote-for-roy-moore/804261 "2017-12-12T04:03:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![aldiboronti](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc348/32.png) [@aldiboronti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aldiboronti)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2017, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-vote-for-roy-moore/804261/61 "2017-12-12T16:36:24Z")
Republicans in Alabama should vote for him. His tail-chasing is far in the past and there are far larger national issues here anyway ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2017, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-vote-for-roy-moore/804261/62 "2017-12-12T16:36:29Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > WTF is going on in Alabama? The same thing that has been going on in Alabama since post-war Reconstruction. This is a state, and indeed, a region, in which many people believe that the South did not actually lose the Civil War, and who and see repression and slavery as a form of antebellum manifest destiny. The irony, such as it is, is that the impetus for resistance to the end of slavery and recognition of civil rights for all was resisted by the then conservative “Redeemer” Democrats who pushed out so-called “Radical Republicans” as a result of the Compromise of 1877. Complaining about constitutional amendments and talking about how much better life was when the darkies knew their place is the bread and butter of Moore’s demographic, and a little diddling of teenage girls isn’t going to make a dent in that worldview. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2017, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-vote-for-roy-moore/804261/63 "2017-12-12T16:41:19Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > I don’t like what I know about Roy Moore, and I won’t particularly mind if he loses today, but I think it’s overstating things quite a bit to claim that people should “know” that Moore is going to be a “disaster”. I suppose it’s a possibility, but I’m skeptical that Roy Moore winning or losing is really going to have a very dramatic effect on the 2018 midterms or 2020. People in Indiana, Ohio and Florida are going to be choosing between two candidates, neither of which is Roy Moore. I’m not sure that “but Alabama elected Roy Moore!” is going to be a potent campaign commercial. > > If you were to guesstimate, how many House seats do you think it will cost Republicans if Roy Moore wins? I fully expect the Democrats to use clips from Moore’s accusers in their campaign ads come the midterms. They will try and make Moore the face of the Republican party as well they should. This could make the difference in close races. ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2017, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-vote-for-roy-moore/804261/64 "2017-12-12T16:49:15Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > What Clinton did with other consenting adults you mean? Sure. I do not see how that effects his ability to make policy. > > … Southern voters are very forgiving of their candidate if he is running against a Democrat. All you have to say is “fake news” and they wag their tail and close their ears. Because they know fake news is a liberal media thing designed to destroy democracy. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2017, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-vote-for-roy-moore/804261/65 "2017-12-12T16:52:43Z")
Moore [fellowships with blacks and rabbis](http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/roy-moores-wife-attorneys-jew/story?id=51736929), so there. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2017, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-vote-for-roy-moore/804261/66 "2017-12-12T16:57:15Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > How has FoxNews been playing the Roy Moore story? I saw an ad yesterday for a Fox News interview of Juanita Broaddrick and her story of how Bill Clinton raped her. Basically whataboutism run amok. They are essentially saying since democrats elected a rapist you need have no compunction electing a republican rapist. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2017, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-vote-for-roy-moore/804261/67 "2017-12-12T16:57:57Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > I fully expect the Democrats to use clips from Moore’s accusers in their campaign ads come the midterms. They will try and make Moore the face of the Republican party as well they should. This could make the difference in close races. Except that many prominent Republicans have already sought to distance themselves from Moore, and can credibly claim that he does not represent their views including Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell and House Speaker Paul Ryan. Moore can be painted by most as an aberration of Alabama state politics rather than representative of the GOP as a whole, and I suspect it’ll have much less impact on 2018 mid-term elections than many Democratic boosters are hoping for. However, his presumptive election also means that Republican legislators are going to have to continue to distance themselves from him, further fragmenting a party that is already in full on flail mode to make good of their majority in passing much vaunted critical legislation on health care and tax reform. On the other hand, DJ Trump and his Skunky Bunch have gone all in on the Roy Moore pot, and the splashback of shit if Moore is elected will soak his baggy suit and cheap red tie. For any normal presidential candidate, it would be the kiss of death. But Trump likes to smear himself in shit, and his supporters apparently like that aesthetic. Look, he’s draining the swamp! Never mind that he’s turning it into an open sewer. Every time Trump robocalls, an angel breaks its wings. Merry Fucking Christmas, you MAGA morons. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2017, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-vote-for-roy-moore/804261/68 "2017-12-12T17:00:53Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > I don’t like what I know about Roy Moore, and I won’t particularly mind if he loses today, but I think it’s overstating things quite a bit to claim that people should “know” that Moore is going to be a “disaster”. I suppose it’s a possibility, but I’m skeptical that Roy Moore winning or losing is really going to have a very dramatic effect on the 2018 midterms or 2020. People in Indiana, Ohio and Florida are going to be choosing between two candidates, neither of which is Roy Moore. I’m not sure that “but Alabama elected Roy Moore!” is going to be a potent campaign commercial. > > If you were to guesstimate, how many House seats do you think it will cost Republicans if Roy Moore wins? If Moore wins, it won’t be just about Moore. Remember who the president is, who will by next November have presided for nearly two years, if he’s not yet impeached. The real question is, how much difference will it make to moderates and independents and those thinking people in general of a conservative bent that the Republican brand stinks to high heaven of immorality, ineptitude, deceit, and hypocrisy? Republicans should thank their lucky stars if Moore loses and slinks away into obscurity. Can anyone for one microsecond imagine a sleazebag like that running as a Democrat? Just ask Al Franken, who’s practically a saint in comparison. ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2017, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-vote-for-roy-moore/804261/69 "2017-12-12T17:03:33Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > I saw an ad yesterday for a Fox News interview of Juanita Broaddrick and her story of how Bill Clinton raped her. > > Basically whataboutism run amok. They are essentially saying since democrats elected a rapist you need have no compunction electing a republican rapist. I really, really will never vote for Bill Clinton. Not after that. I’m glad Fox set me straight. A perfect application of the “If you can’t dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with bullshit.” Southerners seem to march to that stuff more than others. ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Krupe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ebca7d/32.png) [@Leo\_Krupe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Krupe)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2017, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-vote-for-roy-moore/804261/70 "2017-12-12T17:12:33Z")
[Here](https://www.vox.com/science-and-health/2017/12/11/16737742/roy-moore-alabama-psychology-voters) is an interesting take from Vox: > [@](#): > > I’m at a community center in Opelika, Alabama, in an office where residents are trickling in to register to vote. I came here to meet Roy Moore supporters…one crucial reason why Moore’s most adamant supporters don’t see a scandalized politician is that they see a folk hero. “He’s our Johnny Appleseed, our Davy Crockett,” says Thomas Sparrow…She says Moore’s actions were like the biblical figures Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego, who refused to bow down to, and worship, a golden statue of a king, and were thrown into a furnace for their disobedience. “Roy Moore has to be one of the highest integrity people who have ever entered politics,”… The author then goes on to describe what is essentially tribalist thinking: > [@](#): > > The leading theory is that we often see our group identity as being part of our individual identity. When there’s a threat to the group, it’s a threat to the self. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2017, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-vote-for-roy-moore/804261/71 "2017-12-12T17:34:17Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Sorry, I thought it was obvious. Democrats had convinced many voters that Bill Clinton’s salacious private life didn’t matter. “whataboutism” !!! dingdingding!:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2017, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-vote-for-roy-moore/804261/72 "2017-12-12T17:39:46Z")
The GoP is hard at work pushing the fake news: > **[PolitiFact - Fake news: No, a Roy Moore accuser was not arrested for lying](https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2017/dec/11/blog-posting/fake-news-no-roy-moore-accuser-was-not-arrested-ly/)** > > Many supporters of Alabama Republican Roy Moore say they don’t believe accounts of his sexual advances on underage girls > **[PolitiFact - Fake news about Washington Post and Roy Moore accuser stems from...](https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2017/dec/11/evening-world/fake-news-about-washington-post-and-roy-moore-accu/)** > > A fake news story said a Washington Post reporter offered a woman money if she would accuse Alabama U.S. Senate candidat > **[PolitiFact - Facebook did not remove Gateway Pundit report after fact-check](https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2017/dec/11/gateway-pundit/facebook-did-not-remove-gateway-pundit-report-afte/)** > > On Friday, we rated as Pants on Fire a misleading headline on a blog about a statement made by a woman who accused Roy M So, at least they are desperate. Honestly however, Jones is pretty moderate. Other than _GOP all the way!!_ He would be fine as a Alabama Senator. In fact Jones could be a Republican. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2017, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-vote-for-roy-moore/804261/73 "2017-12-12T17:41:00Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > “whataboutism” !!! dingdingding!:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes: Also, “The political climate that produced Roy Moore was created by Bill Clinton.” ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2017, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-vote-for-roy-moore/804261/74 "2017-12-12T18:11:45Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > … Can anyone for one microsecond imagine a sleazebag like that running as a Democrat? … Not sure if serious, but yeah, it’s not very difficult to imagine a sleazebag Democrat running for office. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2017, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-vote-for-roy-moore/804261/75 "2017-12-12T18:15:12Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > Except that many prominent Republicans have already sought to distance themselves from Moore, and can credibly claim that he does not represent their views including Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell and House Speaker Paul Ryan. Moore can be painted by most as an aberration of Alabama state politics rather than representative of the GOP as a whole, and I suspect it’ll have much less impact on 2018 mid-term elections than many Democratic boosters are hoping for. Maybe. But you’d have to assume that people use logic and rational thought in making their voting decisions. Some do, but I don’t think most do. Voting is often an emotional experience, and although some in the Republican leadership can “credibly distance themselves” from Moore, he isn’t going to be kicked out of the Senate. McDonnell originally tried to “distance” himself from Moore, but later said it was up to the voters of AL to make the decision. Yeah, that’s technically a factual statement, but allows him to refrain from passing judgement. That’s not distancing. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2017, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-vote-for-roy-moore/804261/76 "2017-12-12T18:24:04Z")
My politics _are_ emotional. As well as being authoritatively instructed about feeding the hungry and clothing the naked, I feel that is right, it should be done. My reasoning capacity comes into play as I consider how best to go about that. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2017, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-vote-for-roy-moore/804261/77 "2017-12-12T18:24:39Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > … Honestly however, Jones is pretty moderate. Other than _GOP all the way!!_ He would be fine as a Alabama Senator. In fact Jones could be a Republican. This is the first time I’ve heard Jones described as moderate. My understanding was that if he were an actual moderate he’d probably be in the lead right now, but that he’s pretty liberal, which is hurting him in Alabama. ETA: which positions that he holds do you think best showcase his moderateness? ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2017, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-vote-for-roy-moore/804261/78 "2017-12-12T18:27:06Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Interesting wrinkle: > > [Update: State Supreme Court stays order directing Alabama not to destroy voting records - al.com](http://www.al.com/news/index.ssf/2017/12/judge_orders_alabama_not_to_de.html) > > **Judge orders Alabama not to destroy voting records in Tuesday’s Senate election** > > Good idea. And the state Supreme Court has overturned that ruling, so they can go ahead and destroy those records after all ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2017, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-vote-for-roy-moore/804261/79 "2017-12-12T18:30:38Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > My politics _are_ emotional. As well as being authoritatively instructed about feeding the hungry and clothing the naked, I feel that is right, it should be done. My reasoning capacity comes into play as I consider how best to go about that. So, I take it you would be open to the idea of voting for a Democrat if Moore gets elected to the Senate? ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2017, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-vote-for-roy-moore/804261/80 "2017-12-12T18:31:20Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > Are you college educated? What part of the country do you come from? > > My impression is the gop descent into authoritarianism and incompetence is hurting them among college educated whites, Master’s degree and from west of the Rockies but in North Colorado now. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-vote-for-roy-moore/804261.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-vote-for-roy-moore/804261.md?page=5)