# Why not Vote for Roy Moore? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 12, 2017, 4:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-vote-for-roy-moore/804261 "2017-12-12T04:03:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2017, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-vote-for-roy-moore/804261/81 "2017-12-12T18:34:29Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > he’s pretty liberal, which is hurting him in Alabama. Because he’s okay with prosecuting white people who kill black children? ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2017, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-vote-for-roy-moore/804261/82 "2017-12-12T18:42:34Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > This is the first time I’ve heard Jones described as moderate. My understanding was that if he were an actual moderate he’d probably be in the lead right now, but that he’s pretty liberal, which is hurting him in Alabama. > > ETA: which positions that he holds do you think best showcase his moderateness? > **[Doug Jones (politician)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doug_Jones_(attorney))** > > Gordon Douglas Jones (born May 4, 1954) is an American attorney and politician who served as a United States senator from Alabama from 2018 to 2021. A member of the Democratic Party, Jones was previously the United States Attorney for the Northern District of Alabama from 1997 to 2001. He is the last Democrat to win and/or hold statewide office in Alabama. > Jones was born in Fairfield, Alabama, and is a graduate of the University of Alabama and Cumberland School of Law at Samford University. Af... Platform and views[edit] The editorial board of The Birmingham News has described Jones as a\* “moderate Democrat._"[25] Former Alabama Democratic Party chair Giles Perkins described Jones as "a_ moderate, middle-of-the-road guy.\*”[26] Describing his own views, Jones said that “If you look at the positions I’ve got on health care, if you look at the positions I got on jobs, you should look at the support I have from the business community, I think I’m pretty mainstream."[27] Jones’ campaign has emphasized “kitchen table” issues such as healthcare and the economy.[28][29][30] He has called for bipartisan solutions to those issues,[31] and pledged to “find common ground” between both sides of the aisle.[32] _Jones has not called for tax increases; instead unlike some Democrats, he has called for reductions in corporate taxes "to try to get reinvestment back into this country_".[33] Jones opposes the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act of 2017, the GOP’s tax plan, calling it fiscally irresponsible, and skewed to the wealthy while ignoring or hurting the middle class.[33] Jones supports increasing job training for workers and better education, along with an increase in the minimum wage for people in poverty. Jones also opposes allowing insurance companies to deny coverage for preexisting conditions and supports expanding Medicaid coverage, citing the problems with rural Alabama hospitals.[34] He has also been called an economic populist by Newsweek.[35] He has also come out in support of the Lilly Ledbetter Fair Pay Act.[34]\* On health care, Jones opposes the repeal of the Affordable Care Act, but has called for changes to the U.S. health-care system, which he calls broken\*.[36] He supports the re-authorization of the Children’s Health Insurance Program (CHIP),[36] and has repeatedly criticized his opponent Moore for his lack of a clear stance on the program.[36][37] Jones says he is open to the idea of a public option.[29] Jones supports stronger protection of civil rights. He has cited the Charlottesville rally and the Charleston church massacre as examples of racial issues to be addressed.[34] Jones also supports the reversal of mandatory three-strikes laws for non-violent offenses to give judges flexibility in giving sentences.[34][29] In an interview with The Birmingham News he stated that he opposes additional restrictions on abortion (such as proposals to ban abortion after the 20th week of gestation), saying current laws on the issue are sufficient.[38] Jones has also supported same-sex marriage. Jones has condemned corruption in Alabama in the wake of high-profile scandals saying, “the people of Alabama have been embarrassed by corruption and a string of ethics investigations and convictions of people they placed into positions of power and trust. They deserve better. We all deserve better.”[34] Jones supports investment into renewable energy research and further wildlife conservation. He also supports the Paris Agreement and opposes the United States withdrawal ordered by President Trump; Jones says it would have significant negative effects on the environment.[34] J_ones is running on a platform of strengthening American national defense. In an interview with The Birmingham News, Jones stated that he was in favor of increasing defense spending, saying it would boost Alabama’s local economy, particularly in the areas around NASA’s Marshall Space Flight Center and the U.S. Army’s Redstone Arsenal, and would protect America from foreign threats.[39]_ Italics mark where I think Jones is Moderate. Where do you think he is so Liberal? ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2017, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-vote-for-roy-moore/804261/83 "2017-12-12T18:42:36Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Maybe. But you’d have to assume that people use logic and rational thought in making their voting decisions. Some do, but I don’t think most do. Voting is often an emotional experience, and although some in the Republican leadership can “credibly distance themselves” from Moore, he isn’t going to be kicked out of the Senate. No, I don’t assume that most voters apply much in the way of logic or rational though. I just think that unless Moore goes hog wild molesting Congressional interns or actually starts firing his curiously tiny revolver in Senate chambers, it isn’t going to matter much to voters in other states who were already predisposed to vote Republican, and it remains to be seen how much swing voters will come out in contested races specifically because of Moore. I think all the people who were already going to be outraged about that kind of misconduct were already outraged by previously outrageous things done by the current GOP majority, and the presumptive election of Moore isn’t much more than another irritant in another already pestilential political environment. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2017, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-vote-for-roy-moore/804261/84 "2017-12-12T18:43:50Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > Master’s degree and from west of the Rockies but in North Colorado now. I’m pretty sure it’s the Dakotas that are divided into a North and a South. Colorado is just one big state. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2017, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-vote-for-roy-moore/804261/85 "2017-12-12T18:56:28Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > … > > Italics mark where I think Jones is Moderate. > > Where do you think he is so Liberal? Thanks, that was very helpful. I guess my opinion came mostly from [here (including the following few posts)](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=20655658#post20655658) and a few headlines I’ve seen here or there. Somewhere I read something about him downplaying his liberal views, but I can’t find the article now. ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2017, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-vote-for-roy-moore/804261/86 "2017-12-12T18:59:34Z")
An eyewitness account of the Moore rally last night. > **[What I Saw Inside Roy Moore's Barn Burner](https://www.esquire.com/news-politics/politics/a14415471/roy-moore-last-rally/)** > > The message made zero sense. People lapped it up. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2017, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-vote-for-roy-moore/804261/87 "2017-12-12T19:09:56Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Not sure if serious, but yeah, it’s not very difficult to imagine a sleazebag Democrat running for office. Wanna name two who are comparable to Trump and Moore in terms of (a) being morally and ethically unfit for office, and (b) being laughably incompetent, but (c) **who were elected anyway** after all these facts were known? Wanna venture a guess as to why Franken is being asked to step down while a child molester is possibly about to be elected to a Senate seat and a sexual predator occupies the Oval Office? ---
**Author:** ![Greathouse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/greathouse/32/2992_2.png) [@Greathouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Greathouse)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2017, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-vote-for-roy-moore/804261/88 "2017-12-12T19:13:51Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Interesting wrinkle: > > [Update: State Supreme Court stays order directing Alabama not to destroy voting records - al.com](http://www.al.com/news/index.ssf/2017/12/judge_orders_alabama_not_to_de.html) > > **Judge orders Alabama not to destroy voting records in Tuesday’s Senate election** > > Good idea. New headline for your link: **Update: State Supreme Court stays order directing Alabama not to destroy voting records** I don’t understand why they would want to allow them to destroy the images. What does it harm to keep them for verification if needed? Ninja’d by Rick. Dammit (remember to read whole thread before posting) ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2017, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-vote-for-roy-moore/804261/89 "2017-12-12T19:14:35Z")
> [@Rick\_Kitchen](#): > > An eyewitness account of the Moore rally last night. > [http://www.esquire.com/news-politics/politics/a14415471/roy-moore-last-rally/](http://www.esquire.com/news-politics/politics/a14415471/roy-moore-last-rally/) My God, Bannon looks even more unwashed than when he was Trump’s underling at the WH. He always gives off the impression that you wouldn’t want to be within two blocks downwind of him. At least the real Nazis looked like they bathed. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2017, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-vote-for-roy-moore/804261/90 "2017-12-12T19:24:10Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > Wanna name two who are comparable to Trump and Moore in terms of (a) being morally and ethically unfit for office, and (b) being laughably incompetent, but (c) **who were elected anyway** after all these facts were known? > > Wanna venture a guess as to why Franken is being asked to step down while a child molester is possibly about to be elected to a Senate seat and a sexual predator occupies the Oval Office? William Jefferson (not Clinton, I’m talking about the freezer-bribe guy) comes to mind readily, but I imagine you’ll move the goalposts again. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2017, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-vote-for-roy-moore/804261/91 "2017-12-12T19:38:58Z")
He said two. You don’t get points for kicking the field goal halfway there. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2017, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-vote-for-roy-moore/804261/92 "2017-12-12T19:40:17Z")
Shooting fish in a barrel. Marion Barry, anyone? ---
**Author:** ![nelliebly](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nelliebly/32/5422_2.png) [@nelliebly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nelliebly)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2017, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-vote-for-roy-moore/804261/93 "2017-12-12T19:41:59Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > But Moore is just 1 person. Abortion, education, gay marriage, etc. affect millions of Alabamans. How far are you willing to go with the idea that the willingness to tow the party line on issues outweighs the qualities and qualifications of the individual in office? If a Senate candidate has an IQ of 60 and is incapable of reading, much less analyzing bills but would vote however the Alabama GOP dictates on abortion, gay marriage, etc., is that all that matters? In a primary race, would he or she be the better choice over a candidate who’s willing to compromise with Dems to get legislation passed or who is moderate on some issues or who sometimes supports what’s clearly best for the national interest long-term over what’s best for the majority of Alabamans in the short term? As Madison wrote in Federalist #57, “The aim of every political constitution is, or ought to be, first to obtain for rulers men who possess most wisdom to discern, and most virtue to pursue, the common good of the society; and in the next place, to take the most effectual precautions for keeping them virtuous whilst they continue to hold their public trust.” That distant whirring sound you hear is Madison and the rest of the Founding Fathers spinning in their graves. ---
**Author:** ![Chisquirrel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6bbea6/32.png) [@Chisquirrel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chisquirrel)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2017, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-vote-for-roy-moore/804261/94 "2017-12-12T19:47:34Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > He said two. You don’t get points for kicking the field goal halfway there. See? Moving the goalposts already! > [@Some Smart Guy](#): > > This is the Birther that’s been removed as a Supreme Court Justice for contempt TWICE. He’s the guy who refused visitation to a child’s mother because she was a lesbian. He advocates for the Christian version of Sharia law, skimmed more than a million dollars from a charity that didn’t even report that much in donations while using it to further political ambitions. He recently called the US an “evil empire” and praises Putin, arguing that Russian interference in the 2016 elections was the "providential hand of God”. Fuck Roy Moore. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2017, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-vote-for-roy-moore/804261/95 "2017-12-12T19:51:44Z")
> [@Chisquirrel](#): > > Fuck Roy Moore. With a burning crucifix and a capsaicin enema. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2017, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-vote-for-roy-moore/804261/96 "2017-12-12T20:03:56Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > William Jefferson (not Clinton, I’m talking about the freezer-bribe guy) comes to mind readily, but I imagine you’ll move the goalposts again. _Jefferson was defeated in the general election on December 6, 2008 in a major upset by Republican nominee Cao_ ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2017, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-vote-for-roy-moore/804261/97 "2017-12-12T20:11:36Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > _Jefferson was defeated in the general election on December 6, 2008 in a major upset by Republican nominee Cao_ I know, but he was re-elected in 2006, months after stories like this were all over the news: [Feds: Lawmaker Hid Bribe In Freezer](https://www.cbsnews.com/news/feds-lawmaker-hid-bribe-in-freezer/) ---
**Author:** ![Blue\_Blistering\_Barnacle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blue_blistering_barnacle/32/3386_2.png) [@Blue\_Blistering\_Barnacle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blue_Blistering_Barnacle)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2017, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-vote-for-roy-moore/804261/98 "2017-12-12T20:25:51Z")
nm ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2017, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-vote-for-roy-moore/804261/99 "2017-12-12T23:35:29Z")
> [@Aspidistra](#): > > Well if you turned it around and had one candidate that was nostalgic for slavery, wanted to execute gay people, and was part of a party that was working hard to remove healthcare from the poorest quarter of the country, destroy the country’s reputation, and funnel millions from working people into the hands of the 1% … and it was THE OTHER candidate who tried to rape 16-year-olds, to be honest, I’d be conflicted. > > Roy Moore is a terrible human being who promotes awful policies - but shouldn’t it be the awful policies that make you vote against him, not the terrible human being? > > The problem with Alabama Republicans is not that they’d vote for Moore despite him being a sexual predator, it’s that they’d vote for him EVER. Once you’ve got over that hump, a little thing like groping teenagers isn’t going to stop you… The problem with Alabama Republicans is the same as the problem with any other Republicans: They’re REPUBLICANS. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2017, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-vote-for-roy-moore/804261/100 "2017-12-12T23:43:58Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > The problem with Alabama Republicans is the same as the problem with any other Republicans: > > They’re REPUBLICANS. Well, that was not the case until recently, now that the RNC and Trump did go all the way to support Moore, they are demonstrating that they are indeed listening to the dark angels of their nature. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-vote-for-roy-moore/804261.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-vote-for-roy-moore/804261.md?page=6)