# Why nothing's going to change (from the "Bad Precedent" thread) **URL:** \ **Category:** About This Message Board\ **Created:** [April 11, 2010, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-nothings-going-to-change-from-the-bad-precedent-thread/535733 "2010-04-11T14:53:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Sapo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ec9cab/32.png) [@Sapo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sapo)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2010, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-nothings-going-to-change-from-the-bad-precedent-thread/535733/61 "2010-04-15T17:22:12Z")
> [@Fenris](#): > > No. U. I went to school there. What class were you? ---
**Author:** ![maplekiwi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a4c791/32.png) [@maplekiwi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/maplekiwi)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2010, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-nothings-going-to-change-from-the-bad-precedent-thread/535733/62 "2010-04-15T21:19:42Z")
> [@Martini\_Enfield](#): > > There’s _one_ Non-US mod, AIUI. That doesn’t really count. Have you got any British or Australian or South African mods? How about appointing a couple? Especially from the Southern Hemisphere area. 😉 I would love to see another “foreign” mod. I did a search yesterday on **Gukumatz** & s/he pretty much just posts in the Game Room. That doesn’t mean s/he doesn’t read the other forums of course. & having a mod from a different time zone might make it easier for you guys too. (as far as mod coverage goes) I don’t mind the present forum set up - as long as all American election stuff is all contained in Great Debates or The Pit. For example if someone starts a thread in CS saying “who is the Worst Actor in the World” the answer is _ **not** _ **Obama**. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Rico](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rico/32/3582_2.png) [@Rico](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rico)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2010, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-nothings-going-to-change-from-the-bad-precedent-thread/535733/63 "2010-04-16T00:19:02Z")
> [@maplekiwi](#): > > For example if someone starts a thread in CS saying “who is the Worst Actor in the World” the answer is _ **not** _ **Obama**. :rolleyes: It’s not? ;)😃 ---
**Author:** ![Sapo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ec9cab/32.png) [@Sapo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sapo)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2010, 1:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-nothings-going-to-change-from-the-bad-precedent-thread/535733/64 "2010-04-16T01:06:47Z")
> [@Rico](#): > > It’s not? > ;)😃 Of course not. It’s Ronald Reagan. ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2010, 7:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-nothings-going-to-change-from-the-bad-precedent-thread/535733/65 "2010-04-16T07:52:54Z")
> [@Fenris](#): > > It’s a _messageboard_. NONE of this stuff is “necessary”. Some staffers may not want it, but there’s certainly far more demand and need for it than there was for The Game Room. As a leading (and longtime) proponent of a sports forum, I strongly disagree with this characterization. **Marley** summarized the reasoning behind the Game Room quite nicely: > [@Marley23](#): > > Again, I’m not seeing that as a big problem. People can identify politics threads without a problem. They’re not missing out on those threads because they can’t find them, and there are not that many of them outside of GD and the Pit. And I notice that the people who post about politics the most are not advocating this idea. Sports threads were marginalized by being hard to find and thus the sports fans were missing out on them. And it was absolutely the sports fans leading the charge in getting a dedicated sports forum. As a poster who doesn’t care about political threads either way, I think the status quo works well. GD is already basically a Politics (plus Religion) forum anyway, isn’t it? Except for the threads that belong in the pit, of course, but those threads either stay in the pit (meaning no change) or go extinct when moved to a new Current Events forum. Neither option is an improvement, IMO. One of the reasons that the Game Room made sense is because sports are a single topic that lends itself to one type of discussion. Politics, OTOH, is a vast collection of disparate topics that really benefit from the underlying forum structure based on types of discussion instead of topics. I concede that this is at odds with my previous paragraph, but I think that underlines how difficult it is to lump politics into a single unified whole, which is further reason not to shoehorn all political threads into one single forum. ---
**Author:** ![Martini\_Enfield](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/martini_enfield/32/11123_2.png) [@Martini\_Enfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martini_Enfield)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2010, 8:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-nothings-going-to-change-from-the-bad-precedent-thread/535733/66 "2010-04-16T08:22:30Z")
> [@EllisDee](#): > > Sports threads were marginalized by being hard to find and thus the sports fans were missing out on them. It’s my very strong impression of the boards that there are as many - if not more- armchair pundits on the boards as their are hardcore sports fans. Why are the sports fans getting a shared special forum (The Game Room) when the political stuff is left to spill all over the boards, I wonder? ---
**Author:** ![SpaceDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spacedog/32/9932_2.png) [@SpaceDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SpaceDog)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2010, 9:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-nothings-going-to-change-from-the-bad-precedent-thread/535733/67 "2010-04-16T09:30:05Z")
OK, ignoring the specific talk of a politics forum or whatever, what about the general point. Is there a way to canvass board opinion on a wide variety of topics to see what the general feeling is about the board. A significant minority of sites I visit hold a ‘readers survey’ once a year or so first to get feedback about the readership (always useful, particularly for a site trying to turn a profit), to gather feedback about the site, and to float out potential changes to see the reaction. Has the SDMB ever done this? Is it time they did? Would it ever get off the ground? SD ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2010, 10:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-nothings-going-to-change-from-the-bad-precedent-thread/535733/68 "2010-04-16T10:15:08Z")
> [@EllisDee](#): > > As a leading (and longtime) proponent of a sports forum, I strongly disagree with this characterization. **Marley** summarized the reasoning behind the Game Room quite nicely:Sports threads were marginalized by being hard to find and thus the sports fans were missing out on them. And it was absolutely the sports fans leading the charge in getting a dedicated sports forum. > > As a poster who doesn’t care about political threads either way, I think the status quo works well. GD is already basically a Politics (plus Religion) forum anyway, isn’t it? Except for the threads that belong in the pit, of course, but those threads either stay in the pit (meaning no change) or go extinct when moved to a new Current Events forum. Neither option is an improvement, IMO. > > One of the reasons that the Game Room made sense is because sports are a single topic that lends itself to one type of discussion. Politics, OTOH, is a vast collection of disparate topics that really benefit from the underlying forum structure based on types of discussion instead of topics. I concede that this is at odds with my previous paragraph, but I think that underlines how difficult it is to lump politics into a single unified whole, which is further reason not to shoehorn all political threads into one single forum. The idea is that the opposite happens with political threads, at least at election time and every four years. Those two forums become inundated with political stuff, so the threads that are not about it get marginalized. The people asking for a politics forum are precisely the people wanting those non-political threads that are being marginalized. They are the ones analogous to the people who wanted a Sports forum. My own opinion: The only time politics got out of hand was during the presidential election, up until President Obama took office. The mid-term election may also be bad, but I don’t know since I’ve not been here during one of those. But the yearly election was fine. And it’s fine now. In fact, politics is a bit under represented. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2010, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-nothings-going-to-change-from-the-bad-precedent-thread/535733/69 "2010-04-16T15:44:54Z")
Okay, how about this - I don’t know if this is a rule here or not at the moment, but how about strict enforcement of a “no political hijacks” rule? I can live with not opening threads that have, “Obama/Whoever’s in charge of the Repubs Is a Jackass” as the title; what pisses me off mightily is we’re having a nice argument about whatever; along comes somebody who has to make a partisan crack, and the discussion goes haring off down US political lines because things are so polarized now that no one seems able to stop taking the bait. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2010, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-nothings-going-to-change-from-the-bad-precedent-thread/535733/70 "2010-04-16T16:00:55Z")
We usually moderate hijacks like that. There’s a rule against political jabs in GQ, and if you’re in any forum except GD and the Pit, stuff like that generally isn’t tolerated. ---
**Author:** ![Una\_Persson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/una_persson/32/346_2.png) [@Una\_Persson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Una_Persson)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2010, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-nothings-going-to-change-from-the-bad-precedent-thread/535733/71 "2010-04-16T16:29:49Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > My own opinion: The only time politics got out of hand was during the presidential election, up until President Obama took office. The mid-term election may also be bad, but I don’t know since I’ve not been here during one of those. But the yearly election was fine. > > And it’s fine now. In fact, politics is a bit under represented. My opinion is that the politics are out of control _right now._ If I could speak freely then I would have a lot to say about this issue and some others. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2010, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-nothings-going-to-change-from-the-bad-precedent-thread/535733/72 "2010-04-16T17:06:54Z")
> [@Una\_Persson](#): > > If I could speak freely then I would have a lot to say about this issue and some others. Sigh. Can’t you just try to make your point without using the word “cunt”? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2010, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-nothings-going-to-change-from-the-bad-precedent-thread/535733/73 "2010-04-16T17:49:44Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > We usually moderate hijacks like that. There’s a rule against political jabs in GQ, and if you’re in any forum except GD and the Pit, stuff like that generally isn’t tolerated. I agree with Cat Whisperer that this sort of drive-by politics are annoying as hell. A cubic ton of them slip past in C/S. Stuff like “Dumbest character on TV? G.W. Bush. (or “Barack Obama”) Bwahahahahaha!!1!!” :rolleyes: I don’t blame the mods at all as they can’t read every thread and I’ve been hesitant to report them-largely because these stupid-assed “jokes” are just ignored, so they’re not an actual hijack. Are these technically against the rules? If I report 'em, will I be getting on the mod’s nerves (moreso? 😉 ) ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Ashtar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ea924/32.png) [@Lord\_Ashtar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Ashtar)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2010, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-nothings-going-to-change-from-the-bad-precedent-thread/535733/74 "2010-04-16T17:55:21Z")
I seem to recall a few years ago someone complaining about all the Daily Show threads turning into Bush bashing sessions in CS. The mods put the kaibosh on that, so I’d imagine other hit-and-runs like **Fenris** describes should also be against the rules. I wouldn’t recommend warnings for them though, unless someone turns out to be a repeat offender. ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2010, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-nothings-going-to-change-from-the-bad-precedent-thread/535733/75 "2010-04-16T18:04:40Z")
> [@Una\_Persson](#): > > My opinion is that the politics are out of control _right now._ Fully, completely agree. And it’s going to get worse mid-to-late June as midterm elections start ramping up. Then by say, Sept, 90% of the Pit and GD will be overwhelmed by political threads. By late Jan, it’ll die down…some. Until the legislative session actually gets going…say, March of next year and it’ll pick back up again to about the level it is now and excluding one-off stuff (the health care debate, judicial appointments) it’ll stay at that mid-level simmer (again, about where it is now) until about Jan 2012. Then all hell will break loose for the 2012 presidental elections. Look, once upon a time, GD was **NOT** a vast political wasteland. Back in DavidB’s tenure (and I’m using him to fix the time, not to compare mods), it was much more of a James Randi/Skeptics forum–there were politics, but there was a lot more skeptical stuff, and the forum was wildly more diverse. That goes double for The Pit. Outside of the old “Gang of Four” (ChasE, and..um..3 others I can’t remember), plus Stoid–the Pit was largely politics-free through about 2003/2004 (obviously 9/11 started a bunch of pit threads). Ever planted mint? Useful plant and no-one’s suggesting that it should be gotten rid of, but if you let it just grow anywhere, it takes over your garden and strangles everything out. We know for a fact that threads on the first page get much more activity than threads on page 2 or 3. This is a basic axiom of the SDMB (and every other board I’ve been on). Tuba, Lynn, Dex and who-knows-how-many other Modmins have said it and used it as a reason for closing threads (especially in MPSIMS). Right now, there’s no chance of GD or the Pit getting any real diversity back since any non-political topic is going to be drowned out by the outrage-du-jour. I really think a “Current Events” forum is needed. GD is supposed to be about big, timeless issues: “Should people have the right to defend themselves?” and not piddly little daily stuff (“House bill 19473.3, regarding the regulation of 23-grain bullets violates the 2nd Amendment”). * * * One other thing: I think Spacedog’s idea of a yearly poll of posters is a solid idea. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2010, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-nothings-going-to-change-from-the-bad-precedent-thread/535733/76 "2010-04-16T18:09:04Z")
> [@Fenris](#): > > I don’t blame the mods at all as they can’t read every thread and I’ve been hesitant to report them-largely because these stupid-assed “jokes” are just ignored, so they’re not an actual hijack. > > Are these technically against the rules? If I report 'em, will I be getting on the mod’s nerves (moreso? 😉 ) We’re not going to be humorless schoolmarms who crack down on people every time they make a joke. But yes, you can report that stuff and if it’s really over the line or causing a hijack, we’ll make a mod note to keep the thread on track. ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2010, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-nothings-going-to-change-from-the-bad-precedent-thread/535733/77 "2010-04-16T18:44:26Z")
The thing is, it doesn’t cause a hijack, it’s like a fart in an elevator. It stinks and no-one enjoys it (except the person who let it rip) but it doesn’t cause lasting damage. So that’s why I’ve been hesitant to report them. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2010, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-nothings-going-to-change-from-the-bad-precedent-thread/535733/78 "2010-04-16T20:18:12Z")
An off-topic joke doesn’t faze me in the slightest; an off-topic political jab is a pain-in-the-ass to me, probably because I’ve been so sensitized to them - “Oh, God, there they go again. Must EVERYTHING be brought around to partisan politics?” I understand saying that one per thread is not a big deal; it’s the overall number of them that is the problem (one in EVERY thread). ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2010, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-nothings-going-to-change-from-the-bad-precedent-thread/535733/79 "2010-04-17T01:19:45Z")
> [@Fenris](#): > > Look, once upon a time, GD was **NOT** a vast political wasteland. Back in DavidB’s tenure (and I’m using him to fix the time, not to compare mods), it was much more of a James Randi/Skeptics forum–there were politics, but there was a lot more skeptical stuff, and the forum was wildly more diverse. So where have you been in lekatt’s latest efforts? I don’t recall seeing you in the most recent Troother thread. Once we’ve pared GD down to two threads a week on “skepticism” and six on religion, are you going to participate? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Gukumatz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/74df32/32.png) [@Gukumatz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gukumatz)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2010, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-nothings-going-to-change-from-the-bad-precedent-thread/535733/80 "2010-04-17T02:48:21Z")
> [@Martini\_Enfield](#): > > There’s _one_ Non-US mod, AIUI. That doesn’t really count. Ah, but I’m schitzophrenic. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-nothings-going-to-change-from-the-bad-precedent-thread/535733.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-nothings-going-to-change-from-the-bad-precedent-thread/535733.md?page=5)