# Why now, Jacob Marley? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [November 30, 2017, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-now-jacob-marley/803166 "2017-11-30T18:03:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![A\_Dodgy\_Dude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a87d85/32.png) [@A\_Dodgy\_Dude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/A_Dodgy_Dude)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2017, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-now-jacob-marley/803166/1 "2017-11-30T18:03:34Z")
Why did Marley appear to Scrooge on the seventh anniversary of his death? Does the seventh anniversary have some special significance to Scrooge or the story? ---
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2017, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-now-jacob-marley/803166/2 "2017-11-30T18:18:32Z")
No. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2017, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-now-jacob-marley/803166/3 "2017-11-30T18:21:18Z")
> [@A\_Dodgy\_Dude](#): > > Why did Marley appear to Scrooge on the seventh anniversary of his death? > > Does the seventh anniversary have some special significance to Scrooge or the story? Maybe not the 7th specifically but Scrooge is at the point that his long and ponderous chain will be too long to “retract” if he isn’t saved _now_. Remember, his chain was as long as Marley’s and has been added to since Marley’s death. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2017, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-now-jacob-marley/803166/4 "2017-11-30T18:35:14Z")
> [@A\_Dodgy\_Dude](#): > > Does the seventh anniversary have some special significance to Scrooge or the story? Seven days to create the universe ‘Cain shall be avenged sevenfold.’ Seven pairs of each animal on the ark Seven days of Passover Jericho’s walls fell on the seventh day Seven deadly sins Seven virtues Seven Sisters of the Pleiades Seven levels of Hell The seventh son of a seventh son is supposed to have special powers/abilities/fortune. . ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2017, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-now-jacob-marley/803166/5 "2017-11-30T18:37:28Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > Seven days to create the universe > ‘Cain shall be avenged sevenfold.’ > Seven pairs of each animal on the ark > Seven days of Passover > Jericho’s walls fell on the seventh day > Seven deadly sins > Seven virtues > Seven Sisters of the Pleiades > Seven levels of Hell > The seventh son of a seventh son is supposed to have special powers/abilities/fortune. > > . You forgot the Seven Swans a-Swimming. ---
**Author:** ![xizor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xizor/32/102_2.png) [@xizor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xizor)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2017, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-now-jacob-marley/803166/6 "2017-11-30T20:38:45Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > You forgot the Seven Swans a-Swimming. And the Seven Samurai ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2017, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-now-jacob-marley/803166/7 "2017-11-30T20:45:57Z")
Further, it wasn’t just the seventh anniversary of Marley’s death, he had specifically died on Christmas and the implication was that on some future Christmas, so would Scrooge. Man, the holidays are rough. ---
**Author:** ![A\_Dodgy\_Dude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a87d85/32.png) [@A\_Dodgy\_Dude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/A_Dodgy_Dude)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2017, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-now-jacob-marley/803166/8 "2017-11-30T21:11:46Z")
> [@xizor](#): > > And the Seven Samurai And Seven Brides for Seven Brothers ---
**Author:** ![JKilez](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e5b9ba/32.png) [@JKilez](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKilez)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2017, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-now-jacob-marley/803166/9 "2017-11-30T21:19:19Z")
> [@A\_Dodgy\_Dude](#): > > And Seven Brides for Seven Brothers And the Seven Pillars of Wisdom. ---
**Author:** ![A\_Dodgy\_Dude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a87d85/32.png) [@A\_Dodgy\_Dude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/A_Dodgy_Dude)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2017, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-now-jacob-marley/803166/10 "2017-11-30T21:37:23Z")
The Seven Summits Hey! I’m helping hijack my own thread! :smack: Actually, running coach’s answer is pretty good. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2017, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-now-jacob-marley/803166/11 "2017-11-30T21:52:40Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > Maybe not the 7th specifically but Scrooge is at the point that his long and ponderous chain will be too long to “retract” if he isn’t saved _now_. > Remember, his chain was as long as Marley’s and has been added to since Marley’s death. In that case, Scrooge’s chain is too long to ‘retract’ because it was already at the ‘non-retractable’ length when Marley died. I still say that it’s seven years because seven is a ‘mystical number’. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2017, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-now-jacob-marley/803166/12 "2017-11-30T22:01:06Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > In that case, Scrooge’s chain is too long to ‘retract’ because it was already at the ‘non-retractable’ length when Marley died. > > I still say that it’s seven years because seven is a ‘mystical number’. Marley died before repenting but he does imply(I don’t remember the exact phrasing) that despite the length of Scrooge’s chain, it’s not too late yet. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2017, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-now-jacob-marley/803166/13 "2017-11-30T22:11:39Z")
[Project Gutenberg](http://www.gutenberg.org/files/46/46-h/46-h.htm) > [@](#): > > Again the spectre raised a cry, and shook its chain and wrung its shadowy hands. > > “You are fettered,” said Scrooge, trembling. “Tell me why?” > > \*\*“I wear the chain I forged in life,” replied the Ghost. “I made it link by link, and yard by yard; I girded it on of my own free will, and of my own free will I wore it. Is its pattern strange to you?” > > Scrooge trembled more and more. > > “Or would you know,” pursued the Ghost, “the weight and length of the strong coil you bear yourself? It was full as heavy and as long as this, seven Christmas Eves ago. You have laboured on it, since. It is a ponderous chain!”\*\* > > Scrooge glanced about him on the floor, in the expectation of finding himself surrounded by some fifty or sixty fathoms of iron cable: but he could see nothing. > > “Jacob,” he said, imploringly. “Old Jacob Marley, tell me more. Speak comfort to me, Jacob!” > > “I have none to give,” the Ghost replied. “It comes from other regions, Ebenezer Scrooge, and is conveyed by other ministers, to other kinds of men. Nor can I tell you what I would. A very little more is all permitted to me. I cannot rest, I cannot stay, I cannot linger anywhere. My spirit never walked beyond our counting-house—mark me!—in life my spirit never roved beyond the narrow limits of our money-changing hole; and weary journeys lie before me!” > > \*\* “Hear me!” cried the Ghost. “My time is nearly gone.”\*\* > > “I will,” said Scrooge. “But don’t be hard upon me! Don’t be flowery, Jacob! Pray!” > > **“How it is that I appear before you in a shape that you can see, I may not tell. I have sat invisible beside you many and many a day.”** > > It was not an agreeable idea. Scrooge shivered, and wiped the perspiration from his brow. > > “That is no light part of my penance,” pursued the Ghost. “I am here to-night to warn you, **that you have yet a chance and hope of escaping my fate**. A chance and hope of my procuring, Ebenezer.” ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2017, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-now-jacob-marley/803166/14 "2017-11-30T22:31:11Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > [Project Gutenberg](http://www.gutenberg.org/files/46/46-h/46-h.htm) OK, Scrooge can avoid the chains by repenting. But I still think Marley comes seven years after his death because seven is a mystical number and it’s a ‘shortcut’ or ‘clue’ to the reader that something amazing is going to happen. . ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2017, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-now-jacob-marley/803166/15 "2017-11-30T22:38:54Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > OK, Scrooge can avoid the chains by repenting. > > But I still think Marley comes seven years after his death because seven is a mystical number and it’s a ‘shortcut’ or ‘clue’ to the reader that **something amazing is going to happen.** > > . I thought that was Dave Bowerman. ---
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2017, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-now-jacob-marley/803166/16 "2017-11-30T22:46:56Z")
Seven Chinese Brothers. ---
**Author:** ![moojja](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e5b9ba/32.png) [@moojja](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/moojja)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2017, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-now-jacob-marley/803166/17 "2017-11-30T23:06:58Z")
“That is no light part of my penance,” pursued the Ghost. “I am here to-night to warn you, that you have yet a chance and hope of escaping my fate. \A chance and hope of my procuring\, Ebenezer.” Scrooge didn’t just get this change to repent for no reason. From the text, it seems Jacob begged mercy for him, and after magical 7 years, the power to be listened and decide to give him a change. So Jacob couldn’t have warned Scrooge before, as he was just doomed to wander invisibly around their counting house. The question isn’t why now, but why bother? From the text, whether Scrooge repent or not, Jacob’s sentence doesn’t end or shorten. Was just an act of love from Jacob, wanting to see his old friend avoid his fate. ---
**Author:** ![NDP](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ndp/32/55_2.png) [@NDP](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NDP)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2017, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-now-jacob-marley/803166/18 "2017-12-01T00:02:43Z")
_[All seven and we’ll watch them fall](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9V-vcXOpG9g)_ … ---
**Author:** ![Prof.Pepperwinkle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/prof.pepperwinkle/32/13627_2.png) [@Prof.Pepperwinkle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Prof.Pepperwinkle)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2017, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-now-jacob-marley/803166/19 "2017-12-01T00:42:04Z")
Seven Dials, London ---
**Author:** ![RivkahChaya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rivkahchaya/32/8919_2.png) [@RivkahChaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RivkahChaya)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2017, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-now-jacob-marley/803166/20 "2017-12-01T00:50:59Z")
How old is Tiny Tim? Is he seven? I haven’t read the story in a long time, but IIRC, he is dead by next Christmas, if nothing changes, so Scrooge must change immediately if Tim is to be saved. In other words, if Marley had waited eight years, Tim would be dead. If Tim is to play a major role, he has to, first of all, be born, and second of all, be ill enough for his illness to be significant. People were diagnosed with things when symptoms appeared back them. Even if Tim had a disease he was born with, the symptoms would have had to have shown up. Also, Tim’s personality, in contrast to Scrooge’s, is a major plot point. He has to be old enough for his personality to have emerged. So really, I think that’s the explanation. Tim. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-now-jacob-marley/803166.md?page=2)