# Why on earth--okay, why in the UNIVERSE--would aliens invade? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [November 18, 2008, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-on-earth-okay-why-in-the-universe-would-aliens-invade/473288 "2008-11-18T15:39:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![CutterJohn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/91b2a8/32.png) [@CutterJohn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CutterJohn)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2008, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-on-earth-okay-why-in-the-universe-would-aliens-invade/473288/61 "2008-11-19T17:23:28Z")
> [@Mr.Excellent](#): > > That’s a little beside the point, though. I’m not saying that these guys wouldn’t have scramjets, or laser-fighters, or super-tanks. I’m saying they _wouldn’t bring them_, at least not in big enough numbers to make a difference. Invading aliens would be very, very unlikely to make the right choices about what to bring on an invasion of Earth, because their information at launch-time would be hopeless out-of-date by the time they arrived. So long as they don’t have FTL or extremely powerful nanotech, they need to make hard choices about what to spend payload on - and the weapons they’d use in a war against their own species aren’t likely to make the list when they’re planning a war on nearly-unarmed savages. They don’t need to be fantastically superior to be virtually unkillable and dominate the skies and land. A squadron of F-22s would have been more than a match for every aircraft in the world in 1918. They would probably have completely dominated the air war over europe in ww2 as well. A single Seawolf would annihilate every single ww2 fleet so long as it was resupplied torpedoes regularly. > [@](#): > > Even if they did bring limited numbers of super-weapons - what of it? Say you’re right, and they’ve got planes that can take out dozens - hundreds! - of ours before we can even engage them. Well, we can _accept_ those losses - we have lots of planes, the industrial capacity to replace them, and plenty of potential pilots to train. These poor bastards would be at the very, very end of their “supply train” - and ours is right here. A supply train that will get very short as soon as they set up the manufacturing facilities they brought with them on whatever portion of the earths landmass they control first(most of the southern hemisphere, most likely, since few countries could put up much of a fight). If they are coming here, they would be prepared to live here, which means building the tools they need, since I doubt this would be a back to the farm movement. It is also a certainty that even if they didn’t include certain weapons in with the ships prebuilt, there would be full plans on how to build whatever they needed, and whatever machinery they had would be up to the job. They did, of course, bring the machinery… You expect them to come to a hostile world and subjugate it and/or exploit its natural resources without having capacity to build new equipment? Actually sending combat vehicles along on the ships is just wasted mass, making the ships too big. They would have to have mining and manufacturing capability anyway, since they couldnt rely on the natives to build anything more than their dinnerware. Send factory ships instead of combat vehicles, land on on of the outer moons for a year or two, or ten, while you monitor electronic traffic to gain intel, and then procede. Also remember that the aliens control the earths orbit. Anything on the surface larger than a man would be a target. All of our manufacturing capacity would be gone in days. All of our satellites would be gone within days. All undersea cables, gone. All frequencies we use, jammed, or monitored by computers far, far superior to our own. There would be no resupply for any of our units. No command and control beyond dispatch on horseback, but good luck finding horses. Of course, gas is going to be gone within weeks, since they would send precision strikes down to cut pipelines, refineries, depots, tanker ships, etc, so food would stop moving along with all military vehicles. Our navies would be gone, since ships are incredibly easy to spot top down. No. Earth would be screwed against any planned invasion, even if they only expected 15th century man. Turtledoves books only worked because he envisioned aliens with basically year 2000 technology, plus a couple added features such as fusion engines. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2008, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-on-earth-okay-why-in-the-universe-would-aliens-invade/473288/62 "2008-11-19T17:30:51Z")
Because they were bored, and there’s nothing worth watching on the Tri-D. Larry Niven wrote a wonderful story about the flesh-eating alien invaders (“Assimilatinhg Our Culture, That’s What They’re Doing”). It’s way too expensive in terms of fuel, reaction mass, and time to actially physically invade the Earth and bring people back to eat, so the aliens simply take DNA samples and clone copies of us to eat. They don’t have to bother shipping all that expensve mass through space at relativistic speeds. They’re very nice about it – they pay royalties, but if we don’t authorize them to use the DNa there will be pirate copies, anyway, and we might as well get paid. ---
**Author:** ![YamatoTwinkie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/cc9497/32.png) [@YamatoTwinkie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YamatoTwinkie)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2008, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-on-earth-okay-why-in-the-universe-would-aliens-invade/473288/63 "2008-11-19T17:43:18Z")
> [@Mr.Excellent](#): > > Invading aliens would be very, very unlikely to make the right choices about what to bring on an invasion of Earth, because their information at launch-time would be hopeless out-of-date by the time they arrived. Again, we’re most likely talking about a civilization that is **millions** of years more advanced than we are. In other words, they’ve been dealing with nukes(and stuff **much** deadlier than that) on their own for millions of years. What makes you even consider in the slightest that they are going to be surprised by them? Its like the modern US military going in to invade a country armed only with wooden spears, and then being surprised (and defeated) when the wooden spears turn out to have sharpened stone heads. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2008, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-on-earth-okay-why-in-the-universe-would-aliens-invade/473288/64 "2008-11-19T20:16:55Z")
> [@Mr.Excellent](#): > > Even if they did bring limited numbers of super-weapons - what of it? Say you’re right, and they’ve got planes that can take out dozens - hundreds! - of ours before we can even engage them. Well, we can _accept_ those losses - we have lots of planes, the industrial capacity to replace them, and plenty of potential pilots to train. These poor bastards would be at the very, very end of their “supply train” - and ours is right here. I would read about the [Battle of Cajamarca](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Cajamarca) where 168 Spaniards defeated thousands of Inca’s and captured their empire. Any discussion of invading alien technology would be arbitrary since you can dial it up or down depending on what argument you want to make. We also don’t know the intent of the invader - conquest? anihilation? resource collection? I mean for all we know, the “invasion” might consist of a single massive space ship showing up and taking all of the water off the planet (or enough to severely fuck up our ecosystem). It wouldn’t be waging war against us any more than a the builder of a dam wage war against the salmon in the river, but the effect would be the same. What I do believe is that the longer it would take for them to get here, the more likely they will be coming here with everything they would need to do whatever it is they plan to do. > [@CutterJohn](#): > > They don’t need to be fantastically superior to be virtually unkillable and dominate the skies and land. A squadron of F-22s would have been more than a match for every aircraft in the world in 1918. Well, until it had to refuel or rearm. Then it would be vulnurable on the ground. But other than that you are correct. Imagine a modern (obsolete) USS Iowa class battleship against every war ship ever made before 1906. ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2008, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-on-earth-okay-why-in-the-universe-would-aliens-invade/473288/65 "2008-11-19T23:18:05Z")
Or, they’re already here. In all seriousness, with a 300+ year lead on us, they’re likely just barely in another dimension, watching us. Or being bored with us. ---
**Author:** ![Jaglavak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/85f322/32.png) [@Jaglavak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jaglavak)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2008, 5:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-on-earth-okay-why-in-the-universe-would-aliens-invade/473288/66 "2008-11-20T05:24:04Z")
The most likely reason for an alien race to invade Earth would be to save us from ourselves. Us hairless monkeys are beginning to access truly powerful technologies\* but we’re stuck in the stone age socially. When you’re whacking each other with clubs then it’s not going to end the world if you want to push every conflict to war. When you’re using nukes or worse, well, you don’t get second chances. Also they might want to preserve and study what’s left of our ecosystem. That is the distilled essence of billions of years of competition under earthly conditions. The kind of thing that even advanced aliens couldn’t accurately model without field work. Call them midwives. Their job would be to shepherd us through our adolescence, by force if necessary. They only do it because live monkeys are more interesting than dead monkeys. We can’t possibly have anything else they might want. Aside from 18 year old single malt scotch, that is. \*Factoid: The sun is fusing at the rate of about 1,000,000 megatons per second. Sure that’s a lot, but the astounding thing is that our weapons even make the needle quiver on that scale. ---
**Author:** ![Punintentional](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/9de0a6/32.png) [@Punintentional](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Punintentional)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2008, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-on-earth-okay-why-in-the-universe-would-aliens-invade/473288/67 "2008-11-20T16:41:19Z")
Sorry i didn’t read the whole thread as im in a rush, but why is it that i hear this comment all the time? “Why would any superior life form want to see US?!” “Oh we’re so boring a and stupid, who’d want to even contat us?” Think about the amount of money we spent brining ROCKS back from the moon. If there was any intelligent life out there and they found us, they’d be VERY interested. Think what the scientific reaction would be if we found a single living plant on Mars. Every man in a white coat would cream themselves. Now imagine 60% of the planet was that “smart”. If you think an alien life form wouldn’t want to study us you’re foolish. (unless of course the reason you think they wouldn’t is because they’d “found SO many other planets like us, that we were just like ants in an ant farm” then i understand. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2008, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-on-earth-okay-why-in-the-universe-would-aliens-invade/473288/68 "2008-11-20T17:16:06Z")
> [@Punintentional](#): > > Sorry i didn’t read the whole thread as im in a rush, but why is it that i hear this comment all the time? “Why would any superior life form want to see US?!” “Oh we’re so boring a and stupid, who’d want to even contat us?” Despite what some posters seem to think, I didn’t write "why would aliens VISIT us, or STUDY us, or SEND SUB-ETHER TELEGRAMS to us. I asked why aliens would **invade**. ---
**Author:** ![Sunspace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunspace/32/1250_2.png) [@Sunspace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunspace)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2008, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-on-earth-okay-why-in-the-universe-would-aliens-invade/473288/69 "2008-11-20T17:29:15Z")
Alien invaders wouldn’t even have to be sentient or self-aware! Here’s a scenario that occurred to me in the shower this morning: A ship lands. The aliens in it do whatever they came to do, and then the ship takes off. But while it’s here, a breeding group of pests, mere annoyances to the aliens, escapes. Imagine creatures something like rats: tough, fecund, horny, adaptable, and not at all fussy about what they eat. But these creatures are larger, faster, and smarter than rats, better fighters overall with greater resistance to wounds and disease. They breed fast, eat constantly, and work in groups, cooperating to survive and achieve goals. But they’re still not what we would call intelligent. There’s no self-awareness, no awareness of history, no words or culture. If these creatures were diurnal and liked the same environments we do, they’d be a very tough invasion force from our perspective. There’s no political leadership, so we couldn’t even negotiate with them. Nothing to do but defend, fight back, and maybe domesticate a few, if we’re lucky. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2008, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-on-earth-okay-why-in-the-universe-would-aliens-invade/473288/70 "2008-11-20T17:38:34Z")
> [@Sunspace](#): > > Alien invaders wouldn’t even have to be sentient or self-aware! Here’s a scenario that occurred to me in the shower this morning: > > A ship lands. The aliens in it do whatever they came to do, and then the ship takes off. But while it’s here, a breeding group of pests, mere annoyances to the aliens, escapes. > > Imagine creatures something like rats: tough, fecund, horny, adaptable, and not at all fussy about what they eat. But these creatures are larger, faster, and smarter than rats, better fighters overall with greater resistance to wounds and disease. They breed fast, eat constantly, and work in groups, cooperating to survive and achieve goals. > > But they’re still not what we would call intelligent. There’s no self-awareness, no awareness of history, no words or culture. > > If these creatures were diurnal and liked the same environments we do, they’d be a very tough invasion force from our perspective. There’s no political leadership, so we couldn’t even negotiate with them. Nothing to do but defend, fight back, and maybe domesticate a few, if we’re lucky. So … cockroaches? ---
**Author:** ![Sunspace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunspace/32/1250_2.png) [@Sunspace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunspace)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2008, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-on-earth-okay-why-in-the-universe-would-aliens-invade/473288/71 "2008-11-20T18:23:32Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > So … cockroaches? _Big_ cockroaches. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2008, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-on-earth-okay-why-in-the-universe-would-aliens-invade/473288/72 "2008-11-20T18:27:40Z")
> [@Sunspace](#): > > _Big_ cockroaches. Leave my brother out of this. ---
**Author:** ![OtakuLoki](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ac8455/32.png) [@OtakuLoki](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OtakuLoki)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2008, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-on-earth-okay-why-in-the-universe-would-aliens-invade/473288/73 "2008-11-20T19:48:56Z")
I didn’t know your brother was named Gregor. ---
**Author:** ![Sunspace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunspace/32/1250_2.png) [@Sunspace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunspace)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2008, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-on-earth-okay-why-in-the-universe-would-aliens-invade/473288/74 "2008-11-20T19:58:30Z")
> [@OtakuLoki](#): > > I didn’t know your brother was named Gregor. That’s what happens when you live in the wrong apartment. ---
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2008, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-on-earth-okay-why-in-the-universe-would-aliens-invade/473288/75 "2008-11-20T19:59:50Z")
> [@Sunspace](#): > > Alien invaders wouldn’t even have to be sentient or self-aware! Here’s a scenario that occurred to me in the shower this morning: > > A ship lands. The aliens in it do whatever they came to do, and then the ship takes off. But while it’s here, a breeding group of pests, mere annoyances to the aliens, escapes. > > Imagine creatures something like rats: tough, fecund, horny, adaptable, and not at all fussy about what they eat. But these creatures are larger, faster, and smarter than rats, better fighters overall with greater resistance to wounds and disease. They breed fast, eat constantly, and work in groups, cooperating to survive and achieve goals. > > But they’re still not what we would call intelligent. There’s no self-awareness, no awareness of history, no words or culture. > > If these creatures were diurnal and liked the same environments we do, they’d be a very tough invasion force from our perspective. There’s no political leadership, so we couldn’t even negotiate with them. Nothing to do but defend, fight back, and maybe domesticate a few, if we’re lucky. That is pretty close to what Ridley Scott had in mind with _Alien_, though in his scenerio, the alien craft that the crew finds in the movie is an “aircraft carrier,” and the pests are dropped deliberately on a world to wipe the residents out. ---
**Author:** ![mks57](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b9bd4f/32.png) [@mks57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mks57)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2008, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-on-earth-okay-why-in-the-universe-would-aliens-invade/473288/76 "2008-11-20T20:17:09Z")
Maybe they are giant insects, like in “Starship Troopers”, and they think humans are unbelievably gross and disgusting vermin that must be exterminated. ---
**Author:** ![Colophon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f05b48/32.png) [@Colophon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colophon)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2008, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-on-earth-okay-why-in-the-universe-would-aliens-invade/473288/77 "2008-11-20T21:07:18Z")
I came across [this short story](http://www.electricstory.com/stories/story.aspx?title=meat/meat) via another forum, and had to share it here… ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Excellent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f19dbf/32.png) [@Mr.Excellent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Excellent)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2008, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-on-earth-okay-why-in-the-universe-would-aliens-invade/473288/78 "2008-11-20T21:16:07Z")
> [@Colophon](#): > > I came across [this short story](http://www.electricstory.com/stories/story.aspx?title=meat/meat) via another forum, and had to share it here… Terry Bison’s “They’re Made Out Of Meat”. It was also turned into a quite amusing short film, here: [removed URL] ETA: Sorry, guys - youtube took it down for a TOS violation. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2008, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-on-earth-okay-why-in-the-universe-would-aliens-invade/473288/79 "2008-11-21T15:29:02Z")
> [@OtakuLoki](#): > > I didn’t know your brother was named Gregor. This rejoinder has earned you a place in my regime and the hand of Natalie Portman/Taye Diggs after the conquest. ---
**Author:** ![OtakuLoki](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ac8455/32.png) [@OtakuLoki](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OtakuLoki)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2008, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-on-earth-okay-why-in-the-universe-would-aliens-invade/473288/80 "2008-11-21T18:24:04Z")
Glad you liked it. I was just surprised I was in time to make the comment - I was almost an hour and a half later with it. 😉 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-on-earth-okay-why-in-the-universe-would-aliens-invade/473288.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-on-earth-okay-why-in-the-universe-would-aliens-invade/473288.md?page=5)