# Why PIN Number and not PI Number? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [September 20, 2007, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-pin-number-and-not-pi-number/419819 "2007-09-20T01:07:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2007, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-pin-number-and-not-pi-number/419819/21 "2007-09-20T14:00:02Z")
[QUOTE=bstenger] You’re saying that ATM is an acronym? Unless people are pronouncing it as _at-uhm_ or something similar- it’s not. [/QUOTE] Oh, I said something like this about a month ago, now I have two arseholes. Apparently acronyms aren’t just the ones that are pronounceable. ---
**Author:** ![Q.E.D](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/51bf81/32.png) [@Q.E.D](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.E.D)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2007, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-pin-number-and-not-pi-number/419819/22 "2007-09-20T14:03:21Z")
[QUOTE=Mangetout] Apparently acronyms aren’t just the ones that are pronounceable. [/QUOTE] But they are, and anyone who says otherwise is simply wrong. ---
**Author:** ![NoCoolUserName](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5fc32e/32.png) [@NoCoolUserName](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NoCoolUserName)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2007, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-pin-number-and-not-pi-number/419819/23 "2007-09-20T14:03:39Z")
[QUOTE=Polycarp] No, one should only use a PIN number on an ATM machine … unless, of course, one does one’s banking online on a PC computer. 😛 [/QUOTE] On a Personal PC Computer, if you please. Especially those living near the great Rio Grande river. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2007, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-pin-number-and-not-pi-number/419819/24 "2007-09-20T14:13:01Z")
[QUOTE=Q.E.D.] But they are, and anyone who says otherwise is simply wrong. [/QUOTE] Where were you when [whoever it was] was tearing me a new one in [whatever thread it was] ? 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2007, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-pin-number-and-not-pi-number/419819/25 "2007-09-20T14:16:30Z")
Ah. Found it - [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8848094&postcount=59](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8848094&postcount=59) ---
**Author:** ![Keeve](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/f07891/32.png) [@Keeve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Keeve)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2007, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-pin-number-and-not-pi-number/419819/26 "2007-09-20T14:18:32Z")
[QUOTE=bstenger] You’re saying that ATM is an acronym? Unless people are pronouncing it as _at-uhm_ or something similar- it’s not. [/QUOTE] Remember those commercials in some unnamed exotic land where the tourists’ car broke down and some native kid offered to show them the way to Etiem. “Etiem fix! Etiem make it better!” ---
**Author:** ![Q.E.D](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/51bf81/32.png) [@Q.E.D](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.E.D)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2007, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-pin-number-and-not-pi-number/419819/27 "2007-09-20T14:28:36Z")
[QUOTE=Mangetout] Where were you when [whoever it was] was tearing me a new one in [whatever thread it was] ? 😛 [/QUOTE] Sorry. Musta been sleeping that day. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2007, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-pin-number-and-not-pi-number/419819/28 "2007-09-20T14:35:43Z")
Actually, on reading that thread, I find the response I got wasn’t quite as harsh as it exists in my memory. ---
**Author:** ![Philster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/13edae/32.png) [@Philster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Philster)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2007, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-pin-number-and-not-pi-number/419819/29 "2007-09-20T14:40:48Z")
[QUOTE=Mangetout] Compared to what? [/QUOTE] Compared to the SDMB people. Or is that SDMB board people? By now, it’d be the SDMB board bored people, people. ---
**Author:** ![Bearflag70](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Bearflag70](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bearflag70)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2007, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-pin-number-and-not-pi-number/419819/30 "2007-09-20T14:45:47Z")
I’m going to start using “NFL League” ---
**Author:** ![scr4](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/59ef9b/32.png) [@scr4](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scr4)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2007, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-pin-number-and-not-pi-number/419819/31 "2007-09-20T14:57:16Z")
“PIN” is one syllable, it’s easier to say than “PI” (“pee-ai”). ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2007, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-pin-number-and-not-pi-number/419819/32 "2007-09-20T15:22:57Z")
> [@](#): > > Right, and it is called an “ATM” not, an “ATM Machine”. This used to bug me, until someone pointed out that “ATM” is already redundant. “Automated teller” or “Teller machine” would either one get across exactly the same point. It’s not like you’re going to have an Automated Teller Person, or something. So if I can live with people saying “ATM”, I can live with them saying “ATM machine”. Then, too, it’s not always clear whether a construction is redundant, if you don’t know what it stands for. For instance, “LCD display” is redundant, but “LED display” isn’t (the “D” stands for “diode”). Nor is “SWAT team”, but you might think so if you didn’t know that the “T” stood for “tactics”. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2007, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-pin-number-and-not-pi-number/419819/33 "2007-09-20T15:28:24Z")
[QUOTE=Princhester] The question is whether it would be better if they didn’t. This is of course a value judgement, so there is no right answer. But if you can come up with a coherent argument as to why it is in any way useful to say “PIN Number” when “PIN” will do, or why it is not marginally more efficient to say “PIN” rather than “PIN number”, let’s hear it. [/QUOTE] **Chronos** has the answer. The redundancy is important because the original meaning of the acronym is so quickly lost. The redundancy _adds_ meaning. If you don’t believe that most people don’t know the original words hidden behind common acronyms, watch a segment of Jaywalking on Leno some time. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Yllaria](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yllaria/32/3452_2.png) [@Yllaria](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yllaria)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2007, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-pin-number-and-not-pi-number/419819/34 "2007-09-20T15:30:30Z")
I find it satisfying to report that I am typing this from the Stewart-Eberhardt Building, also known as the SEB Building. I’m feeling a little less bad about the redundancy, after reading this thread. But it still sort of itches if I let myself think about it. ---
**Author:** ![elmwood](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmwood/32/3060_2.png) [@elmwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elmwood)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2007, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-pin-number-and-not-pi-number/419819/35 "2007-09-20T16:22:16Z")
[QUOTE=bstenger] Unless people are pronouncing it as _at-uhm_ or something similar- it’s not. [/QUOTE] [Well …](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EjH9cEoEup8) ---
**Author:** ![FordPrefect](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e99b99/32.png) [@FordPrefect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FordPrefect)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2007, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-pin-number-and-not-pi-number/419819/36 "2007-09-20T17:03:24Z")
[QUOTE=Polycarp] No, one should only use a PIN number on an ATM machine … unless, of course, one does one’s banking online on a PC computer. 😛 [/QUOTE] bastard! That was to my joke! ---
**Author:** ![Enright3](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/enright3/32/2897_2.png) [@Enright3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enright3)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2007, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-pin-number-and-not-pi-number/419819/37 "2007-09-20T17:15:31Z")
[QUOTE=Exapno Mapcase] If you don’t believe that most people don’t know the original words hidden behind common acronyms, watch a segment of Jaywalking on Leno some time. 🙂 [/QUOTE] Which is one reason why I don’t care for Jay Leno. I get it. The idea is to show how dumb people are. Unfortunately it seems that most people don’t realize he edited out the people who got the answers right. I’m always amazed what people will do to get on tv. Don’t they have to sign an authorization form or something? If I made an ass of myself I sure wouldn’t want it broadcast across the nation. ---
**Author:** ![Don\_t\_fight\_the\_hypothetical](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/59ef9b/32.png) [@Don\_t\_fight\_the\_hypothetical](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Don_t_fight_the_hypothetical)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2007, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-pin-number-and-not-pi-number/419819/38 "2007-09-20T17:36:48Z")
VIN number? ---
**Author:** ![Burton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Burton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Burton)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2007, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-pin-number-and-not-pi-number/419819/39 "2007-09-20T17:40:56Z")
It took me a second to remember what ATM stood for. ---
**Author:** ![MrSquishy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b9e5f3/32.png) [@MrSquishy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrSquishy)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2007, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-pin-number-and-not-pi-number/419819/40 "2007-09-20T18:22:03Z")
You folks might save yourself some of this trouble by adopting the Canadianism (or at least Albertanism) “bank machine” instead of your fancy American TLA. I very rarely hear “ATM” or “ATM machine” around here. When I go to the States, I have to remember to say “ATM” to avoid funny looks. Don’t get me started on “restroom” and “soda” and “for here”. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-pin-number-and-not-pi-number/419819.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-pin-number-and-not-pi-number/419819.md?page=3)