# Why plastic bag bans aren't as great as everyone thinks **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [May 20, 2019, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-plastic-bag-bans-arent-as-great-as-everyone-thinks/834241 "2019-05-20T18:07:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2019, 4:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-plastic-bag-bans-arent-as-great-as-everyone-thinks/834241/41 "2019-05-22T04:30:39Z")
> [@Sailboat](#): > > [Livestock’s Long Shadow](http://www.fao.org/3/a0701e/a0701e00.htm) > > Technically I misspoke – ending animal agriculture is the best single thing you can do for the environment overall\*, not specifically carbon footprint. > > (\*leaving aside catastrophic population reduction, which would be unpleasant) That’s a extremely long article, mind quoting and citing just the relevant part? ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2019, 4:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-plastic-bag-bans-arent-as-great-as-everyone-thinks/834241/42 "2019-05-22T04:31:58Z")
> [@WildaBeast](#): > > … > > Is the idea that if _lots_ of people all decide to travel less, airlines will respond to the decrease in demand be scheduling fewer flights? Yes, of course. Less passengers, less air miles. ---
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2019, 4:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-plastic-bag-bans-arent-as-great-as-everyone-thinks/834241/43 "2019-05-22T04:54:53Z")
> [@WOOKINPANUB](#): > > I started using the reusable bags several years ago and I am now just getting to the very bottom of my “bag drawer”. We’re talking 15+ years of bags, which I use daily to empty the litter box. For those who have indoor cats and don’t use plastic bags, what do you use? Paper? Need answer fast:p Use the bags bread comes in. That’s what I used when I had a cat. I didn’t throw them out until they were mostly full. If they’re not full yet, give the top a twist or two to keep the odors in, and leave it near the litter box. With one cat, the bag wouldn’t get full for about three days. > [@WildaBeast](#): > > I have two heavy canvas bags that I bought from Trader Joe’s in 2005. They’re old enough that now the cashiers there comment on my “vintage” bags. Hey, I can top that. I bought my cloth bags in the early 90s, maybe one of them in the late 80s. The store I bought mine at is no longer in existence. I have three, although two of them were misplaced in a recent move. They’re in a box somewhere around here. But I don’t use all three anyway, any more. For the last 11 years, I’ve been bicycling to the grocery stores and hauling most of them home in a backpack. It’s just a few items like bread that I put in a cloth bag and more or less hang from the handlebar. So I don’t use more than two at a time now. For the second bag, I have a coth bag I got at a trade show which is big enough for my needs. ---
**Author:** ![Filbert](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/filbert/32/3433_2.png) [@Filbert](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Filbert)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2019, 6:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-plastic-bag-bans-arent-as-great-as-everyone-thinks/834241/44 "2019-05-22T06:56:14Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > Banning plastic straws is one of those environmental policies that sounds like a good idea, but is really just window dressing that makes some people feel better while doing basically nothing (and I mean, almost literally, nothing) to help the environment. It can make a noticeable difference locally. Although some of the plastic that’s washing up on beaches round here has come from other countries, most of it’s just from the local area, often from right up the beach. The attention given to the straw ban round here seems to have had a pretty big effect on local littering, even if it’s mostly acting as a reminder rather than having a direct effect. I mean, I’ve been to Java, and I’ve seen the crazy amount of plastic wasted and dumped there (ordered a drink in the airport in Jakarta- it came in a plastic cup, with a plastic sealed lid, with a plastic straw in a plastic wrapper, all in a plastic bag… and I was sitting at the table, not taking it away). But even though there’s so much more of that, the bit blowing down the beach here is more likely to wind up in the stomach of our local sea life, and that’s still worth trying to stop. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2019, 7:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-plastic-bag-bans-arent-as-great-as-everyone-thinks/834241/45 "2019-05-22T07:44:19Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > more than half of the plastic waste fouling up the world’s oceans comes from five countries: China, Indonesia, the Philippines, Thailand, and Vietnam.[…]America is responsible for only a tiny percentage of the plastic waste that ends up in the oceans. Err, it’s [not that simple](https://www.plasticpollutioncoalition.org/pft/2019/3/6/157000-shipping-containers-of-us-plastic-waste-exported-to-countries-with-poor-waste-management-in-2018). All America’s done is offshore its actual dumping. That doesn’t absolve it of responsibility, any more than offshoring any other horrible practice does ---
**Author:** ![lingyi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/d2c977/32.png) [@lingyi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lingyi)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2019, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-plastic-bag-bans-arent-as-great-as-everyone-thinks/834241/46 "2019-05-22T17:28:57Z")
In Hawaii, when the plastic bag ban first went into effect, stores did exactly what was cited in the OP, they went to heavier biodegradable bags (increasing the sales of those) and while some stores would charge 5 or 10 cents for them, the bigger chains just used them as usual. Judging from the others at the checkout lines, most people (including myself), just carried on as usual either taking the free bags or paying the 5/10 cents for them. Realizing the original ban didn’t work out as a planned, last year the State added a new law banning all plastic bags (restaurants and small stores are still exempt) completely by 2020, and are required to charge 15 cents for any bag, big or small, even if it’s paper. Longs Drugs, our local CVS affiliate doesn’t even offer any bags, other than the reusable cloth bags they sell at the checkout at all. ---
**Author:** ![Mdcastle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/958977/32.png) [@Mdcastle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mdcastle)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2019, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-plastic-bag-bans-arent-as-great-as-everyone-thinks/834241/47 "2019-05-22T17:33:53Z")
If the idea was to control a litter problem that would be one thing, but usually these bans also start a mandatory charge for paper bags. That produces a backlash and give people the idea the intent is to control their behavior by punishing them for wanting something convenient, not to actually control litter. I still by furniture from IKEA but once they got all greeny-pants and stopped offering any kind of disposable bags I quit buying trinkets there. Too much hassle trying to get a dozen loose articles out to my car with only my arms. As a society we’ve progressed beyond having to haul reusable bags, bottles, and whatnot all over creation so I’m not about to start now. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2019, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-plastic-bag-bans-arent-as-great-as-everyone-thinks/834241/48 "2019-05-22T17:56:31Z")
> [@Mdcastle](#): > > If the idea was to control a litter problem that would be one thing, but usually these bans also start a mandatory charge for paper bags. That produces a backlash and give people the idea the intent is to control their behavior by punishing them for wanting something convenient, not to actually control litter. The reason for the mandatory charge is to cover the case where people forget to bring bags, or choose not to. Would you prefer that no bags at all are available? And the behavior being controlled is littering. ---
**Author:** ![Omar\_Little](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omar_little/32/269_2.png) [@Omar\_Little](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omar_Little)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2019, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-plastic-bag-bans-arent-as-great-as-everyone-thinks/834241/49 "2019-05-22T21:35:39Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > …_reducing your family size by one person does far more to reduce pollution and tackle climate change than every other measure put together, saving 58.6 tonnes of carbon dioxide-equivalent emissions each year…_ Sorry Timmy, but we drew names out of a hat and it has to be you. Mother Earth will thank you in heaven. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2019, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-plastic-bag-bans-arent-as-great-as-everyone-thinks/834241/50 "2019-05-22T21:40:05Z")
> [@Filbert](#): > > It can make a noticeable difference locally. Although some of the plastic that’s washing up on beaches round here has come from other countries, most of it’s just from the local area, often from right up the beach. The attention given to the straw ban round here seems to have had a pretty big effect on local littering, even if it’s mostly acting as a reminder rather than having a direct effect… That shocks me. I doubt that one single straw I have ever used ended up in the ocean. I can’t even think how that would happen. It’s not as if the wind picks them up and blows them away. Unlike the bag bans, which I grudgingly accept as probably helpful, the straw bans strike me as stupid. And when I want to use a straw, no, I DON’T want some biodegradable thing that will dissolve as I am trying to enjoy my drink. I grew up with paper straws, plastic straws were an enormous improvement. I’ve recently been given a “biodegradable plastic” straw and a paper straw with drink. You know what, they still suck. After the paper straw started to decay in my cappucino-to-go, I threw it out, took another paper straw, and waited until I was done with the liquid, and then used the straw to enjoy the rest of the foam. That mostly worked, except it had an unpleasant flavor of brown paper that didn’t really play well with the coffee. And no, I’m not going to carry a metal straw and a little brush to clean it. I mean, really?! Maybe if I become disabled and require a straw to drink at all I would do that, but there’s no way it’s worth it just to enhance my enjoyment of a drink. ---
**Author:** ![Mdcastle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/958977/32.png) [@Mdcastle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mdcastle)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2019, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-plastic-bag-bans-arent-as-great-as-everyone-thinks/834241/51 "2019-05-22T22:20:33Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > The reason for the mandatory charge is to cover the case where people forget to bring bags, or choose not to. Would you prefer that no bags at all are available? > And the behavior being controlled is littering. No, if the problem is litter with plastic bags I want to be able to get paper bags for free like I always have. If the governments trying to force me to use reusable bags I want them to mind their own damn business and not try to reverse all the progress we’ve made in society. ---
**Author:** ![nelliebly](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nelliebly/32/5422_2.png) [@nelliebly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nelliebly)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2019, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-plastic-bag-bans-arent-as-great-as-everyone-thinks/834241/52 "2019-05-23T00:35:07Z")
The city where I live banned plastic bags several years ago. Stores offer paper bags for 5¢ per big bag. I used to forget to bring my own bags in from the car every time I went to the supermarket. Cured that by making myself leave my cart and walk back to the car to get them. Now I don’t drive, and I never forget my cloth bags: when you walk over a mile each way to the supermarket, you want something sturdier than paper to carry your groceries. I used to reuse the plastic bags for little trash can liners. Now I buy them and feel guilty about it. ---
**Author:** ![fedman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/278dde/32.png) [@fedman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fedman)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2019, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-plastic-bag-bans-arent-as-great-as-everyone-thinks/834241/53 "2019-05-23T01:44:48Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > [Here](https://www.cawrecycles.org/recycling-news/xtj9dcga9bmh5daxn4sw4kry4zpndg) is info on the drop in California. > I have had no trouble remembering to bring bags to the grocery store. I keep a few in my car, just in case. The conference I’m involved with gave them out, and I got extra being on the committee. I can guarantee they were very cheap, but they’ve lasted at least five years with no signs of wearing out. > Unless you work for a plastic bag company, I just don’t understand being against a ban. Cleveland is considering banning one use plastic bags , preferring paper bags or reusable plastic. Of course with paper bags: if you have one with handle, too much weight, the handle will break if you have paper bag without handles, you have to carry it in your arms, which is not only tiring but also limits the amount of shopping you can do (I’m referring to shoppers without cars), and definitely don’t get bag wet! With single use plastic bags , I can carry more groceries (4+) which also have more tensile strength to be fair Cleveland has several exemptions each violation(person sold bag starts at $50), but I can’t figure out if you can’t buy plastic bags, how can you use them for doggie dumps, etc ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2019, 9:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-plastic-bag-bans-arent-as-great-as-everyone-thinks/834241/54 "2019-05-23T09:55:54Z")
It seems there is an obvious solution to the “forgot it at home” issue. Just have cheap, reusable bags available that you have to purchase. You’ll feel bad for having to purchase it, so you’ll be more likely to remember, but you won’t have to go without if you forgot. However, I do think it would be harder if you lived in those cities where you walk all the time instead of drive. It’s easy to leave the bags in your car. (We already do that with the bags designed to keep things cold.) But to always have them on your person would be weird. Sure, you probably don’t need as many if you are within walking distance, but you still probably just leave them at home. So there would be times when you would be able to walk right over to the store on your way back home, and instead have to go home and get your bags. That kinds sucks. Though, if you live in those walkable places, you probably have more money than most of us, and thus wouldn’t mind paying a bit for a new bag. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2019, 9:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-plastic-bag-bans-arent-as-great-as-everyone-thinks/834241/55 "2019-05-23T09:58:10Z")
Oh, the OP did finally answer my question of why we don’t just go back to paper bags. The carbon footprint issue is probably even more pressing than the plastic pollution issue right now. ---
**Author:** ![Filbert](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/filbert/32/3433_2.png) [@Filbert](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Filbert)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2019, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-plastic-bag-bans-arent-as-great-as-everyone-thinks/834241/56 "2019-05-23T15:38:06Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > That shocks me. I doubt that one single straw I have ever used ended up in the ocean. I can’t even think how that would happen. It’s not as if the wind picks them up and blows them away. Half the local economy seems to be based on beachside cafes round here, combined with strong winds and steep hillsides, pretty well anything dropped tends to wind up in the sea. Look at somewhere like [this](https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@50.6443479,-4.7608416,3a,75y,285.31h,88.27t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sgMjzSkyGUY--0QFi9awBUw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656) and it’s easy to see how it happens, and this place gets _busy_ in season. I suspect it’s largely because they stay so easily recognisable that they get the direct attention, but as a small item often handed to a kid they do get everywhere. ---
**Author:** ![Mundane\_Super\_Hero](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mundane_super_hero/32/6304_2.png) [@Mundane\_Super\_Hero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mundane_Super_Hero)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2019, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-plastic-bag-bans-arent-as-great-as-everyone-thinks/834241/57 "2019-05-23T16:09:51Z")
Am I the only one who has already started hoarding? I have 5 plastic bags filled with about 30 plastic bags each just in case of emergencies… ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2019, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-plastic-bag-bans-arent-as-great-as-everyone-thinks/834241/58 "2019-05-23T18:24:00Z")
> [@Filbert](#): > > Half the local economy seems to be based on beachside cafes round here, combined with strong winds and steep hillsides, pretty well anything dropped tends to wind up in the sea. Look at somewhere like [this](https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@50.6443479,-4.7608416,3a,75y,285.31h,88.27t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sgMjzSkyGUY--0QFi9awBUw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656) and it’s easy to see how it happens, and this place gets _busy_ in season. > > I suspect it’s largely because they stay so easily recognisable that they get the direct attention, but as a small item often handed to a kid they do get everywhere. Okay, maybe it makes sense to ban plastic straws for outdoor beach-side restaurants. > [@Mundane\_Super\_Hero](#): > > Am I the only one who has already started hoarding? I have 5 plastic bags filled with about 30 plastic bags each just in case of emergencies… Nope. Plastic bags are too useful to go away, I expect I will continue to be able to buy them. (And it’s not the cheap supermarket bags I am missing – I can buy things like that – it’s the nice, heavy-weight ones that places like nice bookstores or fancy food emporia used to give out that I am really missing. They make nice gym bags, lunch bags, etc.) But I have invested in a lot of plastic straws. It’s one of those things that many people don’t care about much, so even if the only motivation is “it gives you warm fuzzies to deny me a straw”, I’m afraid we’ll get meaningful straw bans. I got the little ones that are rated to use in hot coffee, since that’s when I care about them the most. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2019, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-plastic-bag-bans-arent-as-great-as-everyone-thinks/834241/59 "2019-05-23T18:45:14Z")
> [@fedman](#): > > Cleveland is considering banning one use plastic bags , preferring paper bags or reusable plastic. Of course with paper bags: > if you have one with handle, too much weight, the handle will break > if you have paper bag without handles, you have to carry it in your arms, which is not only tiring but also limits the amount of shopping you can do (I’m referring to shoppers without cars), and definitely don’t get bag wet! > With single use plastic bags , I can carry more groceries (4+) which also have more tensile strength > > to be fair Cleveland has several exemptions each violation(person sold bag starts at $50), but I can’t figure out if you can’t buy plastic bags, how can you use them for doggie dumps, etc But your kids can’t make textbook covers with plastic bags, can they? (My number one use for paper bags when I was in school, but no plastic bags back then.) I think the goal is not to transition to paper but to transition to bring your own cloth bags, which are a win both for carbon footprint and pollution. As for dog poop, we used the vegetable bags which are still allowed and bags that our newspaper came in during rainy season. I never much liked using the grocery store bag for dog poop anyhow. We have a plastic bag dispenser for dog bags which let you stuff bags in at the top and take them out the bottom. No dog now but we keep it filled for when we dog sit. ---
**Author:** ![fedman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/278dde/32.png) [@fedman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fedman)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2019, 7:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-plastic-bag-bans-arent-as-great-as-everyone-thinks/834241/60 "2019-05-24T07:46:48Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > I can understand forgetting the first few times after the plastic bag ban went into effect, but after that, you’re just not trying. > > We keep a half-dozen bags in the trunk of our car. When we shop and bring the bags into the house, we empty the bags and then hang them on the front door handle. Then, the next time someone walks out the front door to go to the car, they grab the bags off the door handle and put them back in the car. > > This is not especially difficult. what about people without cars? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-plastic-bag-bans-arent-as-great-as-everyone-thinks/834241.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-plastic-bag-bans-arent-as-great-as-everyone-thinks/834241.md?page=4)