# Why psychiatry is a scam **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 30, 2008, 8:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-psychiatry-is-a-scam/470225 "2008-10-30T08:38:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Risha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/5fc32e/32.png) [@Risha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Risha)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2008, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-psychiatry-is-a-scam/470225/61 "2008-10-31T01:35:55Z")
> [@KGS](#): > > Interesting how you label yourself as a “bipolar person” instead of, well, you know, a person. One would think, you should be **“Risha”** first and “bipolar” second, not the other way around. That’s the danger of psychiatry, my dear one…it enforces conformity and groupthink. I, myself, am always **KGS** first – “Asperger’s” is just a label, just like “Schizophrenic” used to be my label, and whatever newfangled illness they’ll come up with in 2015 will become my secondary label then. But I’m _always_ **KGS** first. OOOOORRRR I was using it as a general description of a population I’m in, such as a sentence like “It’s crap like this that gives us tall people a bad name” or “It’s crap like this that gives us white people a bad name” or “It’s crap like this that gives us Democrats a bad name”. In fact, that’s such a blantant and ridiculous attempt to discount what I said, that I’m now considering whether or not you’re actually a troll. On the other hand, I know plenty of bipolar in denial people, and they often have such digressions in an attempt to deny their problems. Hmm… > [@](#): > > That is YOUR path, however – don’t pretend that YOUR path is any better or worse than mine. Okay, honey? 1. First of all, fuck off with the condensation crap. 2. You’re a textbook case of bipolar. 3. It’s not a “path” or an “identity”, it’s a sickness. If you had a probably curable cancer and were refusing chemo because it’s poison, I’d call you a fucking idiot to your face. So here we go: you’re a fucking idiot. Go take your meds, and hopefully someday you’ll be sane enough to know it. Og, I pity your family. ---
**Author:** ![supergoose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@supergoose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/supergoose)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2008, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-psychiatry-is-a-scam/470225/62 "2008-10-31T01:50:02Z")
> [@Mojo\_Pin](#): > > Just curious–what is it about having saline pumped through you that is pleasant? A minor side note, but I hope someone answers this too. All I have to offer is anecdotal experience - salty snacks automatically perk me up and a saline drip was once the best sensation I have yet to experience (following a positive tilt-table test) but that’s because it boosts blood volume, as I understand it, and my body has problems counteracting gravity when it comes to blood flow. I thought my problems were fairly uncommon, though. Does saline make everyone feel better? ---
**Author:** ![alice\_in\_wonderland](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alice_in_wonderland/32/176_2.png) [@alice\_in\_wonderland](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alice_in_wonderland)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2008, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-psychiatry-is-a-scam/470225/63 "2008-10-31T02:05:09Z")
This boy’s cheese done slid off his cracker… ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2008, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-psychiatry-is-a-scam/470225/64 "2008-10-31T02:06:09Z")
> [@bobkitty](#): > > This. Because I had a total WTF moment when I read that, and if it’s remotely true, I have just understood my addiction-counselor coworker’s daily rant about the misuse of medical THC. Recent studies have shown that it \*is \*often effective at treating certain kinds of depression. Subjects whose symptoms included being “bummed out over not having any pot” reported much higher rates of improvement compared to placebo. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2008, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-psychiatry-is-a-scam/470225/65 "2008-10-31T02:40:13Z")
> [@alice\_in\_wonderland](#): > > This boy’s cheese done slid off his cracker… And he’s sharp as a pound of wet mice! ---
**Author:** ![placebo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e274bd/32.png) [@placebo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/placebo)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2008, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-psychiatry-is-a-scam/470225/66 "2008-10-31T02:58:35Z")
> [@VinylTurnip](#): > > Subjects whose symptoms included being “bummed out over not having any pot” reported much higher rates of improvement compared to placebo. Yeah, marijuana only makes my symptoms worse. ---
**Author:** ![OompaLoompa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/cab0a1/32.png) [@OompaLoompa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OompaLoompa)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2008, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-psychiatry-is-a-scam/470225/67 "2008-10-31T03:12:16Z")
“The flock gets sight of a spot of blood on some chicken and they all go to peckin’ at it, see, till they rip the chicken to shreds, blood and bones and feathers. But usually a couple of the flock gets spotted in the fracas, then it’s their turn. And a few more gets spots and gets pecked to death, and more and more. Oh, a peckin’ party can wipe out the whole flock in a matter of a few hours, buddy, I seen it. A mighty awesome sight. The only way to prevent it—with chickens—is to clip blinders on them. So’s they can’t see.” - Ken Kesey, One Flew Over the Cuckoo’s Nest ---
**Author:** ![Crowbar\_of\_Irony\_3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f08c70/32.png) [@Crowbar\_of\_Irony\_3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crowbar_of_Irony_3)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2008, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-psychiatry-is-a-scam/470225/68 "2008-10-31T03:22:14Z")
> [@OompaLoompa](#): > > “The flock gets sight of a spot of blood on some chicken and they all go to peckin’ at it, see, till they rip the chicken to shreds, blood and bones and feathers. But usually a couple of the flock gets spotted in the fracas, then it’s their turn. And a few more gets spots and gets pecked to death, and more and more. Oh, a peckin’ party can wipe out the whole flock in a matter of a few hours, buddy, I seen it. A mighty awesome sight. The only way to prevent it—with chickens—is to clip blinders on them. So’s they can’t see.” > > - Ken Kesey, One Flew Over the Cuckoo’s Nest Chicken + The BBQ Pit == BBQ CHICKEN! Feaaaaaaassst! ---
**Author:** ![OompaLoompa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/cab0a1/32.png) [@OompaLoompa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OompaLoompa)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2008, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-psychiatry-is-a-scam/470225/69 "2008-10-31T03:53:07Z")
Kesey wasn’t just high, he was an orderly in one of those places nobody wants to know about. And high. > **[Ken Kesey](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kesey)** > > Ken Elton Kesey (September 17, 1935 – November 10, 2001) was an American novelist, essayist and countercultural figure. He considered himself a link between the Beat Generation of the 1950s and the hippies of the 1960s. > Kesey was born in La Junta, Colorado, and grew up in Springfield, Oregon, graduating from the University of Oregon in 1957. He began writing One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest in 1960 after completing a graduate fellowship in creative writing at Stanford University; the novel was... > **[One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest](https://books.google.com/books?id=R1avIGuqvuMC&printsec=frontcover&dq=cuckoo%2Bnest%2Bkesey#PPA52,M1)** > > Ken Kesey's bracing, inslightful novel about the meaning of madness and the value of self-reliance, and the inspiration for the new Netflix original series RatchedBoisterous, ribald, and ultimately shattering, Ken Kesey’s One Flew Over the Cuckoo’s... ---
**Author:** ![John\_DiFool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_difool/32/19543_2.png) [@John\_DiFool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_DiFool)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2008, 4:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-psychiatry-is-a-scam/470225/70 "2008-10-31T04:10:13Z")
Quick question: are there any psychiatrists who still engage in talk therapy, dream analysis, Jungian/Freudian associations, transference and counter-transference and so on? Because what I get from the anti-psychiatrist camp is a dislike of throwing drugs at a mental issue (or at least that’s one thing), but that broad brush wouldn’t apply to the talk-shrinks, would it? ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2008, 4:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-psychiatry-is-a-scam/470225/71 "2008-10-31T04:11:58Z")
> [@](#): > > **KGS** : The depressive half is controlled by medical marijuana. With only the exception noted by the Honorable **Vinyl Turnip** , this is bullshit…er…chicken shit. As much as I have enjoyed the company of the friendly weed in times past, it is a depressant. It certainly isn’t prescribed medically for depression. It would lift the spirits only temporarily and exacerbate depression in the long run. > [@](#): > > KGS: Bitch, learn to read. I _did_ have psychiatric issues and I _did_ receive help. Why didn’t I seek help earlier? Because once you reach a certain limit, my perception became Perfect Reality – I did not think I had a problem at all. If you ever witnessed or experienced psychosis firsthand, you would know that. I’m not at all certain that you experienced psychosis. You said that you did not think that you had a problem at all. Do you really think that all psychosis is like that? How ignorant of you. You think that all psychosis is like a mood disorder. If you have such a psychiatric history, why aren’t you aware that only doctors (M.D.'s) can order the actual prescriptions? Not a social worker or a psychologist – but a medical doctor. I am sorry that you are ill and afraid to lose your highs. You’ll never have much of a life unless you are willing to give them up. It’s not your fault. But it’s not the fault of psychiatry either. The medicine helps most of us. I’m just another refugee from the Animal Farm. ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2008, 4:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-psychiatry-is-a-scam/470225/72 "2008-10-31T04:24:30Z")
**John DiFool** , my psychiatrist did engage in talk therapy which was a tremendous help. But we focused on the present and not the past. I reshaped my behavior even after my mid to late forties. I never expected that to happen! > [@](#): > > **:OompaLoompa** : Kesey wasn’t just high, he was an orderly in one of those places nobody wants to know about. I’ve been in one of those places and I’ve been in some places that weren’t at all threatening. (I even married a man in a little white coat.) I’ve had lots of electric shock treatments without giving permission and without even knowing what they were. This was back in the early 1960s when they were still pretty rough. I just don’t think places like that still exist. I know the shock treatments are different. That was an incredible book and movie. There is no way to describe how much it meant to my own sense of freedom. ---
**Author:** ![KGS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/90ced4/32.png) [@KGS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KGS)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2008, 8:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-psychiatry-is-a-scam/470225/73 "2008-10-31T08:35:55Z")
> [@John\_DiFool](#): > > Quick question: are there any psychiatrists who still engage in talk therapy, dream analysis, Jungian/Freudian associations, transference and counter-transference and so on? Because what I get from the anti-psychiatrist camp is a dislike of throwing drugs at a mental issue (or at least that’s one thing), but that broad brush wouldn’t apply to the talk-shrinks, would it? Nailed it in one. Give this guy a brownie point! 🆒 > [@Zoe](#): > > It certainly isn’t prescribed medically for depression. It would lift the spirits only temporarily and exacerbate depression in the long run. I’m not going to waste my time digging up cites to satisfy you, but yes, marijuana ABSOLUTELY is an effective treatment for depression, and it’s routinely prescribed as such. Do some research – THC’s antidepressant properties is one of the major reasons (or “excuses” if you like) California’s Prop. 215 exists in the first place. ---
**Author:** ![Knowed\_Out](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/knowed_out/32/7380_2.png) [@Knowed\_Out](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knowed_Out)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2008, 11:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-psychiatry-is-a-scam/470225/74 "2008-10-31T11:14:27Z")
I think if my patient was strapped to the bed flipping around and spazzing like a drunk ferret, I’d be in there just long enough to write the anticrazy pills scrip too. ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2008, 12:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-psychiatry-is-a-scam/470225/75 "2008-10-31T12:02:36Z")
KGS, do you work? ---
**Author:** ![Rubystreak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Rubystreak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rubystreak)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2008, 12:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-psychiatry-is-a-scam/470225/76 "2008-10-31T12:20:51Z")
So the mental health professional who prescribed you medical marijuana for your depression is A-OK, but the one who prescribed Risperidol for the psychosis is a scam artist? Hmmmm. It seems that you are more than willing to accept treatment from psychiatry if it suits you. Sort of a hypocrite, aren’t you? ---
**Author:** ![TwistofFate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/cdc98d/32.png) [@TwistofFate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TwistofFate)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2008, 12:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-psychiatry-is-a-scam/470225/77 "2008-10-31T12:24:33Z")
I blame thetans. ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2008, 12:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-psychiatry-is-a-scam/470225/78 "2008-10-31T12:49:21Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > And he’s sharp as a pound of wet mice! Not to mention being one taco shy of a combination plate. Bless his heart. ---
**Author:** ![irishgirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/8edcca/32.png) [@irishgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/irishgirl)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2008, 1:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-psychiatry-is-a-scam/470225/79 "2008-10-31T13:28:34Z")
**KGS** - get a DSM -IV or an ICD 10. Get a pencil. Flip to the pages with Autism Spectrum Disorder, Bipolar Affective Disorder and Acute Psychosis. Make crosses against anything you think applies to you. Now, make ticks against anything that \* could be perceived by a third party as applying to your most recent episode\*. Warning: there are going to be quite a few ticks in the BPAD and Acute Psychosis, and not so many in the ASD pages. That’s how psychiatrists make diagnoses- they check boxes against the lists in the diagnostic manuals. Here is F30.2 Mania With Psychotic Symptoms from ICD-10. _“The clinical picture is that of a more severe form of mania as described above. Inflated self-esteem and grandiose ideas may develop into delusions, and irritability and suspiciousness into delusions of persecution. In severe cases, grandiose or religious delusions of identity or role may be prominent, and flight of ideas and pressure of speech may result in the individual becoming incomprehensible. Severe and sustained physical activity and excitement may result in aggression or violence, and **neglect of eating, drinking, and personal hygiene may result in dangerous states of dehydration and self-neglect**. If required, delusions or hallucinations can be specified as congruent or incongruent with the mood. “Incongruent” should be taken as including affectively neutral delusions and hallucinations; for example, delusions of reference with no guilty or accusatory content, or voices speaking to the individual about events that have no special emotional significance.”_ While for Asperger’s it is known that psychotic episodes can happen, they aren’t thought to be AFFECTIVE: i.e. they are pure psychosis without an element of mania or depression. Perhaps you can see how having read your notes and speaking to you for a few minutes someone might feel that you fit into the particularly labelled box of BPAD? Certainly lack of sleep, severe dehydration and hallucinations of spaceships coming to take you away fits better into the BPAD box than it does the Aspergers box. Just because one doctor, who you like, has diagnosed you with ASD rather than Schizoaffective disorder or BPAD, it doesn’t mean that everyone has to agree with their diagnosis, nor that their diagnosis is correct or set in stone. You had psychotic symptoms, you were offered an anti-psychotic medication. This is not your first psychotic episode, so your risk of further episodes is high, so you were advised not to stop taking it. You were offered one of the best anti-psychotics on the market- no, it’s not perfect, it has side-effects, but the same could be said for all medications. I know I’m typing this mostly for my benefit, because you aren’t going to take any of this on board, and you’re not likely to agree with me, but I still felt I had to say it. I hope you feel better soon. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2008, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-psychiatry-is-a-scam/470225/80 "2008-10-31T14:12:05Z")
> [@TwistofFate](#): > > I blame thetans. Racist. What have the tans ever done to you? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-psychiatry-is-a-scam/470225.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-psychiatry-is-a-scam/470225.md?page=5)