# Why Pterosaurs aren't Dinosaurs **URL:** \ **Category:** Cecil's Columns/Staff Reports\ **Created:** [August 29, 2002, 6:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-pterosaurs-arent-dinosaurs/126060 "2002-08-29T06:51:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Darwins\_Finch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darwins_finch/32/20304_2.png) [@Darwins\_Finch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darwins_Finch)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2003, 7:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-pterosaurs-arent-dinosaurs/126060/41 "2003-01-12T07:16:02Z")
By the way, the University of Kansas’s Natural History Museum Publications website has a [good primer](http://www.nhm.ukans.edu/cc.html) on cladistic methodologies. ---
**Author:** ![Breathe\_Exhaust](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/3ab097/32.png) [@Breathe\_Exhaust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Breathe_Exhaust)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2003, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-pterosaurs-arent-dinosaurs/126060/42 "2003-01-13T01:38:47Z")
* * * Irishman: Add a little more info on the Komodo Dragon bit. Where do monitor lizards fit into the overall picture? You’ve taken it one step and assumed the rest of us know how it fits from there. You assume too much. * * * How do I assume to much? I’m far less qualified to say where monitor lizards fit into the overall picture than some others on the list. I managed to emerge form 16 years of education without ever taking a biology or zoology course, so this thread is not so much debate as education for me. I learned what I know about the Komodo Dragon from television documentaries. I wouldn’t pretend to have a scientist’s grasp on the subject. ---
**Author:** ![Darwins\_Finch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darwins_finch/32/20304_2.png) [@Darwins\_Finch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darwins_Finch)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2003, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-pterosaurs-arent-dinosaurs/126060/43 "2003-01-13T02:20:18Z")
I missed the Komodo Dragon bit quoted above. Komodo Dragons (_Varanus komodoensis_) are in a completely separate reptile lineage from archosaurs. Within Reptilia, there is a branch known as Sauria. This branch splits into Archosauromorpha on the one hand (which, in turn, contains Archosauria, and therefore dinosaurs, pterosaurs, crocodilians and birds), and Lepidosauromorpha (which contains, among numerous other critters, the varanid lizards [aka “monitor lizards”, which include Komodo Dragons], as well as the various extinct aquatic reptiles: mosasaurs, plesiosaurs, ichthyosaurs, and nothosaurs – creatures often mistaken for “aquatic dinosaurs”). So, the short answer is that Komodos are only distantly related to dinos and pterosaurs. ---
**Author:** ![jimbobboy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/22d042/32.png) [@jimbobboy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jimbobboy)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2003, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-pterosaurs-arent-dinosaurs/126060/44 "2003-01-13T15:02:01Z")
Would a Komodo dragon, then, be considered a member of the lizard family? ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2003, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-pterosaurs-arent-dinosaurs/126060/45 "2003-01-13T17:59:29Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Geobabe \* > \*\*Do they eat other animals, these Komodo dragons? \*\* Yes- they are more or less big lizards, and are carnivourous. They like goat. They would eat you, given the chance, although they do not “hunt” humans for food normally. ---
**Author:** ![Irishman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b487fb/32.png) [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2003, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-pterosaurs-arent-dinosaurs/126060/46 "2003-01-14T01:38:14Z")
**jklann** said: > [@](#): > > All of the above statements are true, and they convey useful information. But in every case the identifier on the right side is an _informal, impressionistic description_ --nobody would pretend that “land mammal”, “small, furry animal”, or “a thing that looks like a lizard” is a valid zoological taxon. I was getting an inkling of this when I posted. Thank you for phrasing it in a way that got it through my thick skull. > [@](#): > > Now the problem with birds and dinosaurs is that “dinosaur” **does** have a valid zoological meaning–a member of the clade Dinosauria, as explained by **Finch** above. And most biologists agree that birds are members are Dinosauria. But because dinosaurs are so well known, the word is also used impressionistically, and it creates a mental picture of a (usually) large, scaly, and long-extinct creature that doesn’t accommodate birds. And this is a serious problem for biologists to address. **John W. Kennedy** said: > [@](#): > > What I originally said still goes; the essential problem here is a failure to “get” the new classificatory principle, as first made popular by cladistics, that evolutionary descendants ought not to be regarded as taxonomic siblings. Um, what? I think what you’re saying is that just because two different groups are subdivisions of a previous ancestor, that does not make them necessarily at the same layer or status in the taxonomic scheme. Correct? The whole Kingdom Phylum Class Order Family Genus Species thing. **Breathe Exhaust** said: > [@](#): > > How do I assume to much? I’m far less qualified to say where monitor lizards fit into the overall picture than some others on the list. Oops, it appears I’m the one doing the assuming. You spoke so authoritatively I thought you knew more about the subject than I. Guess I was wrong. **Darwin’s Finch** said: > [@](#): > > I missed the Komodo Dragon bit quoted above. Komodo Dragons (Varanus komodoensis) are in a completely separate reptile lineage from archosaurs. Within Reptilia, there is a branch known as Sauria. [Lengthy list of technical terms deleted.] > > So, the short answer is that Komodos are only distantly related to dinos and pterosaurs. Um, right. So I ask a question, then don’t understand the answer. All those dang terms are confusing and hard to keep straight. Which is the whatsit after the thingabob? Within Reptiles, there is a branch that then has two branches - one leading to dinosaurs, pterosaurs, crocodiles, and birds; the other leading to monitor lizards (komodos, iguanas, etc) and various other extinct forms. More info on Komodo Dragons was found with a quick google search. Quick overview: [http://www.scz.org/animals/d/komodo.html](http://www.scz.org/animals/d/komodo.html) > [@](#): > > Diet > Wild: anything they can catch, favorites include deer, goat, wild boar and even smaller komodos, will eat carrion > At SCZ: rats and mice informative story form article (lengthy): > **[The Komodo Dragon](https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/the-komodo-dragon/)** > > On a few small islands in the Indonesian archipelago, the world's largest lizard reigns supreme **jimbobboy** , it is a monitor lizard (iguanas are monitor lizards), so I think so. ---
**Author:** ![Geobabe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/geobabe/32/3908_2.png) [@Geobabe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Geobabe)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2003, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-pterosaurs-arent-dinosaurs/126060/47 "2003-01-14T01:54:35Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by DrDeth \* > \*\*Yes- they are more or less big lizards, and are carnivourous. They like goat. They would eat you, given the chance, although they do not “hunt” humans for food normally. \*\* Totally off topic, but…I believe I read somewhere that a foreign potentate gave America some Komodo dragons. Is that true? ---
**Author:** ![Darwins\_Finch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darwins_finch/32/20304_2.png) [@Darwins\_Finch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darwins_Finch)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2003, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-pterosaurs-arent-dinosaurs/126060/48 "2003-01-14T02:10:26Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Irishman \* > \*\*Um, right. So I ask a question, then don’t understand the answer. All those dang terms are confusing and hard to keep straight. Which is the whatsit after the thingabob? > > Within Reptiles, there is a branch that then has two branches - one leading to dinosaurs, pterosaurs, crocodiles, and birds; the other leading to monitor lizards (komodos, iguanas, etc) and various other extinct forms.\*\* Well, that is rather what I said; I just gave the names of the branches as well 🙂 Although, to ammend your clarification: within Reptiles, there is a branch which then has two branches - one branch leads to dinosaurs, pterosaurs, crocodiles and birds; the other leads to another group which _in turn contains_ monitor lizards, etc. That is, Komodos are several branches deep within this other branch. ---
**Author:** ![Zappo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/b3f665/32.png) [@Zappo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zappo)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2003, 4:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-pterosaurs-arent-dinosaurs/126060/49 "2003-01-14T04:27:47Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Geobabe \* > \*\*Totally off topic, but…I believe I read somewhere that a foreign potentate gave America some Komodo dragons. Is that true? \*\* \ Yes. The former premier of Indonesia, Sukarno, gifted this country with two Komodo dragons some years back. They’re now residing at the National Zoo in Washington. \ ---
**Author:** ![Rue\_DeDay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/41988e/32.png) [@Rue\_DeDay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rue_DeDay)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2003, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-pterosaurs-arent-dinosaurs/126060/50 "2003-01-14T13:39:27Z")
\ If you were in the vicinity of Cincinnati…you would take the kiddos to the Cincinnati Zoo, and there you would see two Komodo dragons…the world’s largest living lizard. (Even if they don’t look like Oriental robes or breathe fire.) \ ---
**Author:** ![John\_W.Kennedy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_w.kennedy/32/1031_2.png) [@John\_W.Kennedy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_W.Kennedy)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2003, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-pterosaurs-arent-dinosaurs/126060/51 "2003-01-14T14:02:31Z")
> [@](#): > > I think what you’re saying is that just because two different groups are subdivisions of a previous ancestor, that does not make them necessarily at the same layer or status in the taxonomic scheme. No, rather that if one group (e.g., mammals) is descended from another group (e.g., reptiles), they ought not to be at the same level. * * * MODERATOR NOTE: please be aware that this thread is from 2002-03 until revived near end of 2nd page, in post #66, in April 2014. That’s OK, I just don’t want someone getting worked up about responding to a post that’s over ten years old, and expecting anyone to remember what they said (if they’re even still here) (I’ve edited this alert into the first post in each page.) – CKDH ---
**Author:** ![Harald\_Bluetooth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/9fc29f/32.png) [@Harald\_Bluetooth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harald_Bluetooth)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2003, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-pterosaurs-arent-dinosaurs/126060/52 "2003-01-15T14:33:27Z")
Where do they get their name from, these Komodo Dragons? ---
**Author:** ![Arnold\_Winkelried](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Arnold\_Winkelried](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arnold_Winkelried)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2003, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-pterosaurs-arent-dinosaurs/126060/53 "2003-01-15T20:42:05Z")
From the island on which they live. [From Scientific American: The Komodo Dragon](http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?articleID=000EFE16-865C-1CD6-B4A8809EC588EEDF) ---
**Author:** ![Geobabe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/geobabe/32/3908_2.png) [@Geobabe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Geobabe)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2003, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-pterosaurs-arent-dinosaurs/126060/54 "2003-01-15T22:15:38Z")
Well, now, if we wanted to take the children to see a Komodo dragon…where would we take the children to see a Komodo dragon? ---
**Author:** ![Zappo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/b3f665/32.png) [@Zappo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zappo)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2003, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-pterosaurs-arent-dinosaurs/126060/55 "2003-01-15T23:40:35Z")
If you were in the vicinity of our nation’s capital, Washington, D.C…you would take the kiddos to the National Zoo, and there you would see two Komodo dragons…the world’s largest living lizard. There is a stuffed Komodo dragon in the lobby of the Royal Hotel in Katmandu, Nepal. ---
**Author:** ![Irishman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b487fb/32.png) [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2003, 5:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-pterosaurs-arent-dinosaurs/126060/56 "2003-01-17T05:57:07Z")
**Geobabe** , try here: [http://www.isidore-of-seville.com/komodo/2.html](http://www.isidore-of-seville.com/komodo/2.html) **Arnold** , you stole _my_ link! (That’s the second one I gave.) 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Harald\_Bluetooth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/9fc29f/32.png) [@Harald\_Bluetooth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harald_Bluetooth)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2003, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-pterosaurs-arent-dinosaurs/126060/57 "2003-01-17T14:05:06Z")
Very impressive, the Komodo Dragon. How big do they get, say, compared to other lizards? ---
**Author:** ![Darwins\_Finch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darwins_finch/32/20304_2.png) [@Darwins\_Finch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darwins_Finch)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2003, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-pterosaurs-arent-dinosaurs/126060/58 "2003-01-17T16:35:59Z")
Maybe I should have titled this thread, “Why Komodo Dragons are neither Pterosaurs nor Dinosaurs, and therefore, perhaps, deserve a thread of their own” 😉 (Really, I don’t mind the hijack.) Per **Irishman** ’s [link](http://www.scz.org/animals/d/komodo.html) on page 1: [quote] Size of average well fed adult:[ul][li]length: male = 8.6 feet, female = 7.6 feet [/li][li]weight: male = 200 pounds, female = 150 pounds [/ul][/li][/quote] Which is pretty respectable size for a lizard, I must say. ---
**Author:** ![Anita\_Vacation](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Anita\_Vacation](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anita_Vacation)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2003, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-pterosaurs-arent-dinosaurs/126060/59 "2003-01-17T21:40:46Z")
But if they are a lizard, then why are they called a Dragon? ---
**Author:** ![John\_W.Kennedy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_w.kennedy/32/1031_2.png) [@John\_W.Kennedy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_W.Kennedy)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2003, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-pterosaurs-arent-dinosaurs/126060/60 "2003-01-18T00:49:22Z")
Errrr… If it’s not a corrupted incorporeal servant of God, why is it called a Tasmanian Devil? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-pterosaurs-arent-dinosaurs/126060.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-pterosaurs-arent-dinosaurs/126060.md?page=4)