# Why puritanism beats libertinism every time? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 12, 2016, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-puritanism-beats-libertinism-every-time/774483 "2016-12-12T00:48:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 6\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2016, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-puritanism-beats-libertinism-every-time/774483/21 "2016-12-12T19:03:43Z")
> [@Calico\_Jack](#): > > They can be objectively defined, but if you want me to just give you a word to describe it, no, since they would be objectively defined by the formal laws of the universe, mathematics, aesthetics, etc - not “words” or “cultural rules”. > > Just like the Big Bang is an objective physical concept, but whether or not it’s called the “Big Bang” or the “Big Bong” doesn’t change the concept itself, or all of the physical proofs one would have to write out to describe it in physics terms. It’s rather convenient that you happen to know these objective rules, but are unable to explain them (or explain how you know). It seems unlikely to me that you’re any different from thousands of others claiming to know some sort of objective knowledge about the nature of the universe without being able to explain what they are, or how they know for certain. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2016, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-puritanism-beats-libertinism-every-time/774483/22 "2016-12-12T20:15:45Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > It’s rather convenient that you happen to know these objective rules, but are unable to explain them (or explain how you know). It seems unlikely to me that you’re any different from thousands of others claiming to know some sort of objective knowledge about the nature of the universe without being able to explain what they are, or how they know for certain. They usually give examples, though. I mean, not being able to explain _why_ X and Y and Z are ‘deviant’, that’s just a shame; but not being able to _name_ X and Y and Z, that’s a bit different. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2016, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-puritanism-beats-libertinism-every-time/774483/23 "2016-12-12T23:33:09Z")
This discussion is making me uncomfortable. In my pants. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2016, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-puritanism-beats-libertinism-every-time/774483/24 "2016-12-12T23:49:29Z")
You’ve got baloney in your slacks… Perhaps more seriously, puritanism has the advantage of statism: it can be policed. Liberty is hard to enforce. The very phrase is self-contradictory. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2016, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-puritanism-beats-libertinism-every-time/774483/25 "2016-12-13T03:12:54Z")
> [@correlophus](#): > > - Archaic Greece to Classical Greece. ON the one hand we have the so called presocratic philosophers, who dared to approach the matters of creation and working of the world from a more naturalistic as opposed to a mythological perspective, and rarely got punished, and on the other hand we have Socrates, Plato, Aristotle who were proponents of the one and only truth, strict values, etc, and dissent was commonly punished. Where in the world did you get this nonsense? Neither Plato nor Aristotle were ever “punished” for their thoughts and the whole Socrates story is so misunderstood by people who have never studied it, (which would appear to include you), that your claim is baseless. Beyond that your imaginary dichotomy between puritanism and libertinism has never occurred in the real world. There have certainly been cultures that leaned strongly toward puritanism–although no truly puritanical government has lasted more than one generation–but there has never been a truly libertine culture. (Occasional examples of libertine behavior within various cultures have never characteristic of entire societies or cultures.) As with your error filled screeds on “germanics,” this discussion is so seriously flawed by a lack of facts and logic as to be useful only as an example of really bad polemics. ---
**Author:** ![MEBuckner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mebuckner/32/2896_2.png) [@MEBuckner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MEBuckner)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2016, 5:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-puritanism-beats-libertinism-every-time/774483/26 "2016-12-13T05:34:51Z")
> [@Calico\_Jack](#): > > I think this also applies to ancient Greece and Rome; during the more prosperous times, society slid into more apathetic and libertine behaviors, which contributed to the fall of Rome, and the therefore the drift into the stricter society of the dark ages. By the time of the [“fall of the (Western) Roman Empire”](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romulus_Augustulus) the Empire had been [thoroughly Christianized](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edict_of_Thessalonica) for at least a hundred years. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-puritanism-beats-libertinism-every-time/774483.md?page=1)