# Why Rush Won't Get In to the Rock Hall **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [April 1, 2009, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-rush-wont-get-in-to-the-rock-hall/491612 "2009-04-01T19:15:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![WarmNPrickly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/d78d45/32.png) [@WarmNPrickly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WarmNPrickly)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2009, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-rush-wont-get-in-to-the-rock-hall/491612/61 "2009-04-02T15:54:30Z")
I don’t like Rush. I really don’t like Rush. But not including them in the RARHOF is ridiculous. It isn’t just about innovation, it’s also about talent, and Rush is talented. On the other hand, they will probably get in one day. ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2009, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-rush-wont-get-in-to-the-rock-hall/491612/62 "2009-04-02T15:57:35Z")
Let me preface this to say that I don’t really know much about music. I never had a ‘‘prog’’ phase. I just like what I like. I discovered Rush when I was 22, in 2005. There is so much about this band that runs against my tastes. First of all, Geddy Lee has a squealy girl voice, and I HATE squealy girl voices. Second, Rush is a heavily instrumental band and most of the stuff I like is very vocally driven. I should strongly dislike them based on these two facts alone. And yet… here I am, singing their praises. Rush is a damned good band. Listening to their music is a complete _experience_, like taking a trip to an alien world. They always have something interesting and intelligent to say. I would list them in my top ten favorite. So I think it’s a shame they are being passed over for RRHOF. It also seems to me that the meaning of ‘‘rock and roll’’ has broadened considerably over the last several years, so HOFers are definitely in a tight spot. What’s rock and what’s not? Elvis, sure. Aerosmith, sure. What about Weezer? Blink-182? Tool? Coheed and Cambria? How can you decide what’s the best among ‘‘rock and roll’’ if you’re not even really sure what qualifies anymore? ETA: Okay, if MADONNA, the Queen of Pop, can get into RRHOF, then Rush definitely qualifies. I am a tremendous fan of Madonna, but seriously? ---
**Author:** ![Birdmonster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/71e660/32.png) [@Birdmonster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Birdmonster)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2009, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-rush-wont-get-in-to-the-rock-hall/491612/63 "2009-04-02T16:00:29Z")
> [@Leaffan](#): > > I don’t think Rush should be in there, looking at the inductee list. There is obviously a focus on innovation applied. Although what innovation applies to John Mellencamp and Bob Seger eludes me at the moment. > > Kiss I can see eventually being inducted because of the whole make-up, stage play, circus, showmanship approach that really was innovative at the time: probably still is. > > Rush is a technically sound band, for sure, but what genre did they forefront? What influence did they have? What did they do to change or mold our thoughts on music? These are the questions to be asked. > > I would hazard to guess that as time passes it will be really hard to answer any of these questions. Just as Jackie Gleason and Lucille Ball are easy answers to television innovation, I’m not sure how I could come up with any nominees in the last 10 years. There’s probably some guy responsible for Survivor that spawned a whole new genre of TV, but I don’t know him. But what else has changed in the last 30 years of TV, really? > > For Rock I feel the same way. Looking at the early inductee list is awesome, and I can appreciate most of the latter inductees as also being innovative. But where do we go from here, now that all of the children have grown up? Where do we go from here? Well, if we’re looking solely at recent innovators, I’d add: - Brian Eno: T. Rex member, fancypants producer, originator of ambient music, trendsetter, perhaps the reason U2 sounds like U2. Plus, he’s in a lot of crosswords. - The Cure: Pretty self-explanatory, I think, but were at the forefront of what used to be “goth” rock and New Wave, incredibly popular, have enjoyed tons of longevity, sounded like no one else before them. Also: funny hair. - The Smiths: I mean, if the Cure get in, you gotta throw the Smiths a bone. - Nine Inch Nails: Again, from a strictly innovative level, melded electronica with rock and popularized that before a lot of bands were doing it. Fanatical following. New albums surprisingly uncrappy. - Fugazi: A definite long shot, but as far as post-punk goes and the D.I.Y. ethos, you’d want to include them. It’s never ever ever happening, but it’s worth a mention, I think. - Radiohead: Will be in there sooner or later. Innovative, both commercially and musically, have pushed the envelope consistently, “OK Computer” maybe the best album of the 90s. There are plenty more. It’s not as if the RRHOF is anything close to all-inclusive. ---
**Author:** ![Ximenean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/aca169/32.png) [@Ximenean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ximenean)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2009, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-rush-wont-get-in-to-the-rock-hall/491612/64 "2009-04-02T16:02:07Z")
To me, if you have to have a RRHOF it should be the sort of performers who even non-fans are pretty familiar with. That isn’t really true of Rush. They’ve had more of a modest level of success sustained over a long time rather than ever being stars. Most non-Rush fans probably think “Rush?.. that’s the Tom Sawyer band with the high-pitched singing, right?” And that’s all. Not enough to be a rock & roll great, in my book. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2009, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-rush-wont-get-in-to-the-rock-hall/491612/65 "2009-04-02T16:22:14Z")
> [@Birdmonster](#): > > - The Cure: Pretty self-explanatory, I think, but were at the forefront of what used to be “goth” rock and New Wave, incredibly popular, have enjoyed tons of longevity, sounded like no one else before them. Also: funny hair. > > - Nine Inch Nails: Again, from a strictly innovative level, melded electronica with rock and popularized that before a lot of bands were doing it. Fanatical following. New albums surprisingly uncrappy. If you put in The Cure and NIN you have to put in Depeche Mode and Ministry. ---
**Author:** ![Birdmonster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/71e660/32.png) [@Birdmonster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Birdmonster)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2009, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-rush-wont-get-in-to-the-rock-hall/491612/66 "2009-04-02T16:23:01Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > If you put in The Cure and NIN you have to put in Depeche Mode and Ministry. Both good calls—especially Depeche Mode. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2009, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-rush-wont-get-in-to-the-rock-hall/491612/67 "2009-04-02T16:26:04Z")
> [@Birdmonster](#): > > Both good calls—especially Depeche Mode. Yeah… personally, I’d rank them in the 10 most important bands of all time if we’re going on influence alone. Oddly, I don’t like many DM songs (and most of the ones I do are later work), but I love a thousand bands that would never have existed without them. The one good thing is that unlike most keyboard heavy groups, they do get respect. ---
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2009, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-rush-wont-get-in-to-the-rock-hall/491612/68 "2009-04-02T16:30:28Z")
> [@kenobi\_65](#): > > I found it interesting that the author of the MSNBC article puts ELO in the Prog Rock camp. ELO is one of my favorite bands (along with Yes, the Moody Blues, and Queen), but I never really thought of them in the same way, I think because the core of ELO’s career was far more pop and accessible than many of the other progressive groups. Jeff Lynne agreed with you. Decades ago, he objected to being compared to “classical-rock” bands like Emerson, Lake and Palmer. In his words, “What we do isn’t classical at all. It’s rock and roll music played with instruments people associate with classical music.” I think he was right. Bach played on a Moog synthesizer is “classical rock.” A Chuck Berry-esque song plaied with a string section is not. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2009, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-rush-wont-get-in-to-the-rock-hall/491612/69 "2009-04-02T16:35:05Z")
What about Yngwie Malmsteen? ---
**Author:** ![Birdmonster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/71e660/32.png) [@Birdmonster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Birdmonster)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2009, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-rush-wont-get-in-to-the-rock-hall/491612/70 "2009-04-02T16:37:23Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > What about Yngwie Malmsteen? Don’t be ridiculous. He can be in the hilariously fast sweep-picking hall of fame though. ---
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2009, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-rush-wont-get-in-to-the-rock-hall/491612/71 "2009-04-02T16:44:56Z")
> [@Ximenean](#): > > To me, if you have to have a RRHOF it should be the sort of performers who even non-fans are pretty familiar with. That isn’t really true of Rush. They’ve had more of a modest level of success sustained over a long time rather than ever being stars. Most non-Rush fans probably think “Rush?.. that’s the Tom Sawyer band with the high-pitched singing, right?” And that’s all. Not enough to be a rock & roll great, in my book. That’s a fair argument… but the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame has NEVER followed that standard. It’s filled with acts who were extremely popular with critics, but never had much success with the public at large. Rush has never been a phenomenon or a commercial juggernaut, but they’ve steadily sold out Madison Square Garden for three decades. Can Lou Reed say that? Of course not! Yet HE’S in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. Rush has only about four songs that are still played steadily on the radio, that’s true. But that’s four MORE songs than Leonard Cohen can claim. But somehow Cohen is in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. Similarly, if you asked 100 random people on the street to name some songs by Lou Reed or Frank Zappa, most would shrug, and the rest would say “Valley Girl” or “Walk on the Wild Side” THEY’RE in the Hall of Fame, however. Most people have never even heard of the Ventures (though many could hum a few bars of “Walk, Don’t Run”), Patti Smith (“Oh, wait, was SHE that crazy, ugly b\*\*tch Gilda Radner used to make fun of?”) or the Dells. THEY’RE all in the Hall of Fame. Even Frankie Valli and the 4 Seasons are in! ---
**Author:** ![Eonwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eonwe/32/240_2.png) [@Eonwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eonwe)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2009, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-rush-wont-get-in-to-the-rock-hall/491612/72 "2009-04-02T17:19:00Z")
> [@Le\_Ministre\_de\_l\_au-dela](#): > > Genesis is actually the one that I find the strangest - the fact that it’s actually two different bands - the Peter Gabriel prog rock period and the Phil Collins million-sellout, I mean, million-seller period. I know this is kind of a hijack, but it’s a bit of a pet-peeve of mine. Genesis post Peter Gabriel had a number of albums in relatively the same style/quality of their first handful of albums. And, they had one more lineup change before things really started to turn away from the early Genesis sound. I won’t argue that Phil Collins didn’t take the band into a very different direction eventually, but to divide Genesis into Gabriel/Collins, Legit/PopBallad eras is not fair to Phil Collins, and ignores two or three incredible post-Gabriel, prog albums by Genesis. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2009, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-rush-wont-get-in-to-the-rock-hall/491612/73 "2009-04-02T17:46:48Z")
Fun fact: I’ve only ever heard one Genesis song (_I Can’t Dance_), and I’ve never heard an Emerson, Lake & Palmer song. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2009, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-rush-wont-get-in-to-the-rock-hall/491612/74 "2009-04-02T17:52:37Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Fun fact: I’ve only ever heard one Genesis song (_I Can’t Dance_) How did you manage that? No “Invisible Touch”? Or “Throwing it All Away”? Or perhaps “Tonight, Tonight, Tonight”? ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2009, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-rush-wont-get-in-to-the-rock-hall/491612/75 "2009-04-02T18:08:40Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > How did you manage that? No “Invisible Touch”? Or “Throwing it All Away”? Or perhaps “Tonight, Tonight, Tonight”? Don’t know. I’m 26. Throwing it All Away sounds vaguely familiar. I might have heard one or two and not known they were Genesis songs, I suppose. I mean, Phil Collins’ voice is instantly recognisable, but Peter Gabriel’s isn’t. ---
**Author:** ![Birdmonster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/71e660/32.png) [@Birdmonster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Birdmonster)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2009, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-rush-wont-get-in-to-the-rock-hall/491612/76 "2009-04-02T18:13:53Z")
(As a side note, there’s a “This American Life” about Phil Collins and “Against All Odds” and breakups that is patently amazing.) ---
**Author:** ![Mister\_Rik](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mister_rik/32/491_2.png) [@Mister\_Rik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mister_Rik)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2009, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-rush-wont-get-in-to-the-rock-hall/491612/77 "2009-04-02T18:16:00Z")
The article actually doesn’t really answer anything. It explains the nomination process, but doesn’t actually say anything about why Rush isn’t in. The simple fact is that “rock critics” have always believed that they are the sole experts who know what makes a “hit”, and they’re simply offended by the fact that Rush continues to be successful while not conforming to the established formulas. These are the people who thought Rush’s 1980 song “The Spirit of Radio” was a cheerful celebration of music on the radio, never realizing that the band was actually mocking them. Also, to those who complain about Geddy Lee’s “screechy” voice: Have you listened to any of their stuff that’s more recent than 1981? Geddy stopped screeching a very long time ago, and his voice has improved greatly with age. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2009, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-rush-wont-get-in-to-the-rock-hall/491612/78 "2009-04-02T18:17:25Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Don’t know. I’m 26. > > Throwing it All Away sounds vaguely familiar. I might have heard one or two and not known they were Genesis songs, I suppose. I mean, Phil Collins’ voice is instantly recognisable, but Peter Gabriel’s isn’t. Lot of the 80s Genesis can easily be mistaken for Phil Collins solo. (Although I think Peter Gabriel is pretty recognizable, Peter-Gabriel-era Genesis is pretty hard to come by on the radio. I think “Lamb Lies Down on Broadway” is the only one I ever hear on the radio.) ---
**Author:** ![woodstockbirdybird](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/woodstockbirdybird/32/7905_2.png) [@woodstockbirdybird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/woodstockbirdybird)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2009, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-rush-wont-get-in-to-the-rock-hall/491612/79 "2009-04-02T20:27:55Z")
> [@Birdmonster](#): > > Where do we go from here? Well, if we’re looking solely at recent innovators, I’d add: > > - Brian Eno: T. Rex member, fancypants producer, originator of ambient music, trendsetter, perhaps the reason U2 sounds like U2. Plus, he’s in a lot of crosswords. Nitpick: Brian Eno was in Roxy Music, not T. Rex. And yes, Rush should be in, and I’m not a fan. But then, I also think Husker Du and The Replacements should be in, and that ain’t gonna happen either. ---
**Author:** ![Birdmonster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/71e660/32.png) [@Birdmonster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Birdmonster)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2009, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-rush-wont-get-in-to-the-rock-hall/491612/80 "2009-04-02T20:36:52Z")
**woodstockbirdybird** :Ugh. Good nitpick. Total brainfart. Also, I see you like Minneapolis. Both those bands would deserve mention if an actual RRHOF instead of the joke we’ve got. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-rush-wont-get-in-to-the-rock-hall/491612.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-rush-wont-get-in-to-the-rock-hall/491612.md?page=5)