# Why Rush Won't Get In to the Rock Hall **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [April 1, 2009, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-rush-wont-get-in-to-the-rock-hall/491612 "2009-04-01T19:15:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![woodstockbirdybird](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/woodstockbirdybird/32/7905_2.png) [@woodstockbirdybird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/woodstockbirdybird)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2009, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-rush-wont-get-in-to-the-rock-hall/491612/81 "2009-04-02T20:40:27Z")
Agreed. ---
**Author:** ![Le\_Ministre\_de\_l\_au-dela](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/le_ministre_de_l_au-dela/32/12181_2.png) [@Le\_Ministre\_de\_l\_au-dela](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Le_Ministre_de_l_au-dela)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2009, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-rush-wont-get-in-to-the-rock-hall/491612/82 "2009-04-02T21:05:56Z")
> [@Eonwe](#): > > I know this is kind of a hijack, but it’s a bit of a pet-peeve of mine. > > Genesis post Peter Gabriel had a number of albums in relatively the same style/quality of their first handful of albums. And, they had one more lineup change before things really started to turn away from the early Genesis sound. > > I won’t argue that Phil Collins didn’t take the band into a very different direction eventually, but to divide Genesis into Gabriel/Collins, Legit/PopBallad eras is not fair to Phil Collins, and ignores two or three incredible post-Gabriel, prog albums by Genesis. Fair enough; in my opinion, Trick of the Tail and Of Wind and Wuthering are not as good as Nursery Crime or The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway, but they are worlds better than And Then There Were Three. I actually had some hope with Duke, but ABACAB killed it dead, dead, dead. Seconds Out was the best thing they did after PG left, but again, and this is my personal opinion, something happens to good musicians when they start thinking of themselves as The Lead Singer… It happened when Sting started thinking of himself as the lead singer who happens to play bass instead of the bass player who happened to sing and I think that’s what happened to Phil Collins. I don’t wish to show disrespect to Steve Hackett, but I don’t think he was assertive enough to pull the band away from where the rest of them saw it all going. And I love ‘Voyage of the Acolyte.’ So, I’m not trying to tick you off, and I’m sorry for stepping on your pet peeve, but for me, much of it comes down to Phil Collins. And I even liked him in Brand X, which is why it’s a mystery how he became so poppy. Then again, in Brand X he was only the drummer, not a lead singer. ---
**Author:** ![statij](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c2a13f/32.png) [@statij](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/statij)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2009, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-rush-wont-get-in-to-the-rock-hall/491612/83 "2009-04-02T21:09:06Z")
> [@Mister\_Rik](#): > > Also, to those who complain about Geddy Lee’s “screechy” voice: Have you listened to any of their stuff that’s more recent than 1981? Geddy stopped screeching a very long time ago, and his voice has improved greatly with age. That’s about the time when their music started to suck, though. I much prefer their good songs with screech to their crappy songs without. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2009, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-rush-wont-get-in-to-the-rock-hall/491612/84 "2009-04-02T21:38:58Z")
> [@Gender differences in book carrying.](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-differences-in-book-carrying/52569/7): > > I don’t even know what prog rock is, yet I’ve enjoyed Rush as genuine rock and roll since youth. Prog rock, short for “progressive rock” is a form of rock music that decided to break out of the typical 3-chord, 3-minute song forms that dominated the early era of rock. Basically, it was an attempt to elevate the rock artform into something more creative, intellectual, expansive, complicated. Among other signatures of the genre, there was an emphasis placed on instrumental (technical) virtuosity; longer, more involved song structures that went beyond the verse-chorus blueprint of popular rock; an expanded harmonic vocabulary; rhythmic complexity (no longer bound to 4/4 or 3/4 of most popular music); and lyrical themes beyond sex, drugs, and rock & roll. Prog rock was, in a way, trying to bring the sort of respect that classical music got to rock, by creating a more complicated and more virtuosic art form. It has nothing to do with the presence or absence of keyboards, but they seem to be a favored instrument of progressive rock bands. ---
**Author:** ![Birdmonster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/71e660/32.png) [@Birdmonster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Birdmonster)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2009, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-rush-wont-get-in-to-the-rock-hall/491612/85 "2009-04-02T21:49:18Z")
…or, more derogatorily, “Rock by Nerds.” I kid because I love. But really, depending on your definition (and FTR, I think **pulykamell** ’s is pretty spot on), bands like Queen and Jethro Tull fit right now, the former of which is in fact in the RRHOF. I’ve heard the Who’s “Tommy” cited as one of the earliest prog albums and, certainly, “Baba O’Reilly” has prog elements (though that isn’t on “Tommy,” I realize). Two things I’d add to the above definition is prog’s tendency towards non-traditional arrangements (i.e. a couple guitars, a bass, and drums) and high fallutin’ concept albums. ---
**Author:** ![An\_Arky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/87869e/32.png) [@An\_Arky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Arky)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2009, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-rush-wont-get-in-to-the-rock-hall/491612/86 "2009-04-02T21:51:06Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Fun fact: I’ve only ever heard one Genesis song (_I Can’t Dance_), and I’ve never heard an Emerson, Lake & Palmer song. I envy you. > [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Don’t know. I’m 26. Ditto. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Uncle\_Brother\_Walker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f08c70/32.png) [@Uncle\_Brother\_Walker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uncle_Brother_Walker)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2009, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-rush-wont-get-in-to-the-rock-hall/491612/87 "2009-04-03T00:54:37Z")
I’d like to further the opinion that KISS should be in. Sure, their music wasn’t exactly excellent songwriting, but they did a lot to further the whole over the top stage show presence. Although I don’t think that Gene Simmons is losing any sleep over it. I think I saw a clip of him once on A&E where he basically said “those guys can make me a sandwich”. Though once they _do_ get inducted, I’m sure Gene will launch a whole new line of t-shirts to sell. ---
**Author:** ![Green\_Bean](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/green_bean/32/1760_2.png) [@Green\_Bean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Green_Bean)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2009, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-rush-wont-get-in-to-the-rock-hall/491612/88 "2009-04-03T01:26:09Z")
> [@Birdmonster](#): > > I have long believed Neil Pert is an android. I defy you to prove me wrong. He’s not an android, silly. He’s a _Rand_roid! > [@kenobi\_65](#): > > I found it interesting that the author of the MSNBC article puts ELO in the Prog Rock camp. ELO is one of my favorite bands (along with Yes, the Moody Blues, and Queen), but I never really thought of them in the same way, I think because the core of ELO’s career was far more pop and accessible than many of the other progressive groups. I think ELO is at the intersection of the prog rock and arena rock genres. The problem with attempting to put every band into a single genre is that it simply doesn’t work. Too many bands span genres. You don’t want to make things too complicated, of course. Otherwise, you lose the value of genrefication. But you also lose the value if you oversimplify. > [@Ximenean](#): > > To me, if you have to have a RRHOF it should be the sort of performers who even non-fans are pretty familiar with. That isn’t really true of Rush. They’ve had more of a modest level of success sustained over a long time rather than ever being stars. Most non-Rush fans probably think “Rush?.. that’s the Tom Sawyer band with the high-pitched singing, right?” And that’s all. Are you joking? I was most definitely not a Rush fan until quite recently, but even I could name quite a few of their songs, tell you the names of at least two band members, and tell you that they were a Canadian trio who were renowned for their musical virtuosity. Anecdotal? Yes. But so is your assessment. See **astorian** ’s comments above about how well-known Rush is compared to many others that have been included in the RRHoF. > [@Birdmonster](#): > > …or, more derogatorily, “Rock by Nerds.” > > I kid because I love. > > But really, depending on your definition (and FTR, I think **pulykamell** ’s is pretty spot on), bands like Queen and Jethro Tull fit right now, the former of which is in fact in the RRHOF. I’ve heard the Who’s “Tommy” cited as one of the earliest prog albums and, certainly, “Baba O’Reilly” has prog elements (though that isn’t on “Tommy,” I realize). Two things I’d add to the above definition is prog’s tendency towards non-traditional arrangements (i.e. a couple guitars, a bass, and drums) and high fallutin’ concept albums. I totally agree. I call it Geek Rock myself. 🙂 > [@Le\_Ministre\_de\_l\_au-dela](#): > > I thought something similar about Geddy Lee when I first saw Rush on the ‘Caress of Steel’ tour - he’s playing pedals, keyboards, bass and singing at the same time? What planet did he grow up on? Canada. ---
**Author:** ![Mister\_Rik](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mister_rik/32/491_2.png) [@Mister\_Rik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mister_Rik)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2009, 3:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-rush-wont-get-in-to-the-rock-hall/491612/89 "2009-04-03T03:47:15Z")
> [@Ximenean](#): > > To me, if you have to have a RRHOF it should be the sort of performers who even non-fans are pretty familiar with. That isn’t really true of Rush. They’ve had more of a modest level of success sustained over a long time rather than ever being stars. Most non-Rush fans probably think “Rush?.. that’s the Tom Sawyer band with the high-pitched singing, right?” And that’s all. Not enough to be a rock & roll great, in my book. If by “modest level of success” you mean “have more consecutive gold albums to their credit than any band except The Beatles, KISS, and Aerosmith”, then yeah, okay 😛 > [@statij](#): > > That’s about the time when their music started to suck, though. I much prefer their good songs with screech to their crappy songs without. A matter of opinion, of course. Rush fans themselves are divided as to what the band’s best “era” is, and I myself am among the group that doesn’t care so much for their “synthesizer-dominant” period, circa 1982-1989. They unfortunately started piling on the synths around the same time I started getting into metal, and as far as I was concerned they’d gone all “new wave” on me (I was 16-17 at the time). I didn’t get back into them until 1991 when their then-current CD, _Roll The Bones_, was on the jukebox where I worked. That CD made me a Rush fan all over again. I eventually went back and bought all the CDs I’d skipped, and soon discovered that those “new wavey” albums are actually a lot of fun to play along with on my bass. There’s a lot of interesting stuff going on under the synths. There’s very little question among Rush fans that their latest, _Snakes & Arrows_, is the best album they’ve put out in a long time. A lot of that can be credited to their new producer, Nick Raczulinek (or however its spelled). He’s much younger than them, and has been a Rush fan since he was about 12 years old, and the guys give him a whole lot of credit for yanking them out of their comfort zone. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2009, 7:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-rush-wont-get-in-to-the-rock-hall/491612/90 "2009-04-03T07:43:00Z")
Lemmy sez that he visited the hall of fame once, and he sez that the biggest display there was the souviner (sp?) shop. In his opinion, it’s kind of corporate, commercial and anti-rock and roll by it’s nature. I like to watch the inductions, and perhaps I’ll visit. I don’t, however, care if an act makes it there or not. ---
**Author:** ![Critical1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/3e96dc/32.png) [@Critical1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Critical1)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2009, 11:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-rush-wont-get-in-to-the-rock-hall/491612/91 "2009-04-03T11:29:06Z")
all these posts about Rush and not one mention of Neal Peart, arguably the greatest rock drummer of all time??!! hell for that alone they deserve to be inducted, that mans drum work has influenced ungodly numbers of drummers over the years ---
**Author:** ![Green\_Bean](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/green_bean/32/1760_2.png) [@Green\_Bean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Green_Bean)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2009, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-rush-wont-get-in-to-the-rock-hall/491612/92 "2009-04-03T14:12:52Z")
> [@Critical1](#): > > all these posts about Rush and not one mention of Neal Peart, arguably the greatest rock drummer of all time??!! > hell for that alone they deserve to be inducted, that mans drum work has influenced ungodly numbers of drummers over the years See post #26, which I quoted in post #88. Anyway, I would have said that Neil Peart’s mad drumming skillz don’t even need to be mentioned as it’s a given that he’s arguably the greatest drummer of all time.\* But when you have people who think that Rush has had “modest success” and aren’t particularly well-known…well, I guess it does need to be explicitly mentioned. You know, I really hadn’t paid a bit of attention to who’s been inducted into the RnRHoF and who hasn’t been. But now that I know–it’s pretty mind-blowing. What the hell are they thinking? What possible criteria are they using? It’s totally bizarre. How could they not include Rush when they include Run D.M.C.? Now, I absolutely feel that Run D.M.C. should be included in _some_ way–they deserve an honorable mention or something for what they did with Walk This Way, and the way it influenced the world of rock. I mean, hell, even Geddy did some rapping in Roll the Bones! But to be inducted themselves? That’s ridiculous. I love 'em, but they shouldn’t be in there. \*I personally put Keith at #1. Neil get’s #2. Poor Neil. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Mister\_Rik](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mister_rik/32/491_2.png) [@Mister\_Rik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mister_Rik)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2009, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-rush-wont-get-in-to-the-rock-hall/491612/93 "2009-04-03T14:14:39Z")
It is kind of ironic that the Hall is in Cleveland, the city where Rush got their first foothold the USA. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2009, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-rush-wont-get-in-to-the-rock-hall/491612/94 "2009-04-03T14:15:34Z")
> [@Green\_Bean](#): > > But to be inducted themselves? That’s ridiculous. I love 'em, but they shouldn’t be in there. _What?_ You are dead to me… and I don’t even like Run DMC. ---
**Author:** ![Birdmonster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/71e660/32.png) [@Birdmonster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Birdmonster)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2009, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-rush-wont-get-in-to-the-rock-hall/491612/95 "2009-04-03T15:37:16Z")
**Master Rik** : I’ve always thought “Grace Under Pressure” was sorely underrated. Pretty much every song on it is great and the lyrics are, well, the lyrics are hilarious and ridiculously Rush-y. In fact, I’m listening to it now. All this “Rush in the RRHOF” has me all hot and bothered. ---
**Author:** ![sqweels](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f19dbf/32.png) [@sqweels](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sqweels)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2009, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-rush-wont-get-in-to-the-rock-hall/491612/96 "2009-04-03T15:50:55Z")
OK, what about **Styx**? ---
**Author:** ![Birdmonster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/71e660/32.png) [@Birdmonster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Birdmonster)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2009, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-rush-wont-get-in-to-the-rock-hall/491612/97 "2009-04-03T15:59:20Z")
What about 'em? If you’re suggesting inclusion into the RRHOF, I’d probably start laughing pretty hard. Beyond just sheer popularity, they have no argument, far as I see it. Including them forces you to include other bands that were simply popular without a whole lot of, shall we say, meat on the bones: Creed, for example. Boston. Linkin Park. I’d rather see Def Leppard in there than Styx, quite honestly. DL were shockingly successful, were my favorite of all the hair metal bands (with the exception of Van Halen) and, you know: ONE. ARMED. DRUMMER. ---
**Author:** ![Eonwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eonwe/32/240_2.png) [@Eonwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eonwe)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2009, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-rush-wont-get-in-to-the-rock-hall/491612/98 "2009-04-03T16:55:58Z")
> [@Le\_Ministre\_de\_l\_au-dela](#): > > So, I’m not trying to tick you off, and I’m sorry for stepping on your pet peeve, but for me, much of it comes down to Phil Collins. Oh, it doesn’t tick me off, don’t worry about that. And, you clearly have an opinion based on actual knowledge of the catalog. I’ve just known too many people who have only heard the most saccharine Genesis songs from the 80s, and so approach Genesis with the idea that ‘Phil Collins sucks!’ without actually listening to a hugely important body of his work. Kind of like if I listened to _Wings_ and then declared that Paul McCartney was the epitome of what was wrong with The Beatles. ---
**Author:** ![Birdmonster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/71e660/32.png) [@Birdmonster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Birdmonster)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2009, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-rush-wont-get-in-to-the-rock-hall/491612/99 "2009-04-03T17:00:36Z")
As an aside, I really only have “Selling England By the Pound.” I like it but am not salivating over it. Next Genesis album? Suggestions? ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2009, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-rush-wont-get-in-to-the-rock-hall/491612/100 "2009-04-03T17:08:36Z")
> [@Birdmonster](#): > > As an aside, I really only have “Selling England By the Pound.” I like it but am not salivating over it. Next Genesis album? Suggestions? Lamb Lies Down or Trick of the Tail. Although, if “Selling England By the Pound” doesn’t do it for you, this era of Genesis might just not be for you. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-rush-wont-get-in-to-the-rock-hall/491612.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-rush-wont-get-in-to-the-rock-hall/491612.md?page=6)