# Why say no to God? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 19, 2000, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-say-no-to-god/29980 "2000-08-19T19:16:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 6\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![Chewie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f07891/32.png) [@Chewie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chewie)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2000, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-say-no-to-god/29980/161 "2000-09-02T02:15:02Z")
Thanks for the welcome, Dr Lao. I really enjoy this board, and intend to post here a fair bit. My apologies in advance for errors in logic, I can only plead a complete lack of formal training. I’ve found, as I’ve entered adulthood(?), that all my real education has come from my recreational reading, which says something pretty disgusting about our school system. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2000, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-say-no-to-god/29980/162 "2000-09-02T02:44:44Z")
I am truly glad, Chewie, that you’ve joined us! Suggestion: look at some of the old threads ( you have to reset the View Posts From dropdown box at the upper right of the Great Debates thread list to get to them). We’ve been over a lot of ground in the past year or so, and you may want to not reinvent the wheel, but bring new perspectives to some of the older topics – as well as working in new ones, of course. One sequence in particular to look at is the ones titled “The Atheist (Non)Religion” which got into a lot of depth on what people believed and why, with remarkably little hostility. And learn to let the hostility towards what people call “drive-by evangelists” drop off your shoulders. Nobody here wants to be witnessed to (unless to prove a point), they want to learn, to expand their horizons, to see others’ point of view. I see that in you too already, but I can predict that there will be a few people who mistake you for the pop-in-witness-and-disappear crowd, simply because you’re an “out” Christian online. Welcome and enjoy! ---
**Author:** ![Occam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Occam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Occam)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2000, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-say-no-to-god/29980/163 "2000-09-03T19:09:50Z")
I don’t think the Bible and logic are mutually exclusive. In order to apply logic at all you need axioms or at least provable statements. Seriously, find something wrong with these: I believe there is an ultimate creator. I believe he is involved in our daily lives. I believe he loves us. I believe if I am good enough I will go to him. No one can say any of these are false…but these are what religious types use as justification and/or direction in their daily lives. Worst of all, those that wield logic as a weapon have a shield of science which is ineffective because you can’t disprove the above. So, until we have scientific proof there is no God and a couple of axioms even the most religious will agree upon and they prove though logic there is no God ya’ll are wasting your time with this. ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2000, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-say-no-to-god/29980/164 "2000-09-03T20:35:25Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Occam \* > \*\*I don’t think the Bible and logic are mutually exclusive. In order to apply logic at all you need axioms or at least provable statements. Seriously, find something wrong with these: > > I believe there is an ultimate creator. > I believe he is involved in our daily lives. > I believe he loves us. > I believe if I am good enough I will go to him. > > No one can say any of these are false…but these are what religious types use as justification and/or direction in their daily lives. > > Worst of all, those that wield logic as a weapon have a shield of science which is ineffective because you can’t disprove the above. So, until we have scientific proof there is no God and a couple of axioms even the most religious will agree upon and they prove though logic there is no God ya’ll are wasting your time with this. > \*\* Hi Occam. Yes, of course you are able to postulate whatever axioms you wish, and there is no way to refute them. But, if we take the advice of your namesake, we will refrain from postulating unneccesary axioms, or axioms that have no consequences. I would hold that I cannot prove through logic that there is no god, any more than I can prove (here we go again) that there are no invisible pink unicorns. What I can do is state that I have no reason to believe in invisible pink unicorns or gods, and until I do I will disbelieve in them. You can say that there is a creator. If you say that it is an axiom without proof, fine. But that’s not good enough for me and others like me. I want something more. Here we see “creation”, the universe. You say that it couldn’t have just happened, it had to have some sort of creator. Fine, but postulating a creator doesn’t help, since we are left with the question of where the creator came from. If you say that nothing can be created from nothing, so therefore the universe requires a creator, then I can reply that since nothing can be created from nothing that the creator requires a creator. So, we are left in a quandry. You say that my belief in a creation without a creator is just as illogical as your belief in an uncreated creator, which may be true. But I would respond that I admit that I don’t know where the universe came from, although some people have had some ideas. I agree, it is mysterious. But we cannot explain the mystery away by substituting another mystery, that explains nothing. The only thing to do is live with the mystery. ---
**Author:** ![shagadelicmysteryman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/7ea924/32.png) [@shagadelicmysteryman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/shagadelicmysteryman)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2000, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-say-no-to-god/29980/165 "2000-09-03T21:49:06Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by im\_a\_squirrel \* > \*\*Ok. This is mostly an opinion question for all you who enjoy good stimulating debate. I am a born again Christian, so there are certain things (viewpoints, etc) that come from atheists and others that I don’t understand. I’m not trying to offend, but I just don’t really see the logic. Before I came into my relationship with Jesus Christ, my life was empty, and I felt guilty about so many of the stupid things that I’d done. Once I allowed Christ to forgive me, I felt a great burden being lifted from me. My life completely changed, I went from deep depression to fullfilled joy in a matter of minutes. Granted, I had to give up some aspects of my life that I really didn’t want to, but now that they’re gone, God makes sure that I don’t miss them. My question for you is this: why would you turn something like that down? Is it that you have stuff in your life that you don’t want to get rid of? Curious minds want to know! \*\* This is kinda pointless. People don’t have to beleive in god if they don’t want to. I do, and i leave it at that. I don’t constantly try to convert people. That’s annoying. Let them beleive what they want to. Everyone has the right to be what they want to be, so let’s leave it at that and debate over important things, like campain finance reform… ---
**Author:** ![shagadelicmysteryman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/7ea924/32.png) [@shagadelicmysteryman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/shagadelicmysteryman)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2000, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-say-no-to-god/29980/166 "2000-09-03T21:52:00Z")
by the way i wasn’t saying that god isn’t important, because for many people he is. I was saying that this debate over religion isn’t important. So could the religious right nuts please not attack me over it? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-say-no-to-god/29980.md?page=8)