# Why should I care about gay marriage? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 20, 2014, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-should-i-care-about-gay-marriage/681766 "2014-02-20T02:37:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 21
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2014, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-should-i-care-about-gay-marriage/681766/402 "2014-02-26T17:42:31Z")
> [@andros](#): > > I hesitate to ask…but given your apparent dismissal of any social value to the institution of marriage, You’re mistaken. I’m not dismissing it, I’m asking for a coherent statement on why the state has an interest in marriage. I didn’t say that doesn’t exist. > [@](#): > > and your apparent dismissal of marriage as simply a shorthand way of obtaining legal rights and protections that can be obtained in other ways…_why?_ Again, I’m not dismissing it, just asking for a more robust defense of it. One that goes beyond the standard right-wing “it’s for the children.” Or not, if that’s not possible. It started with post 306. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2014, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-should-i-care-about-gay-marriage/681766/403 "2014-02-26T17:43:22Z")
> [@lance\_strongarm](#): > > They simply name the survivor - the person intended to get the money when you die. Just like in a will. Not need to marry that person. The state can handle that just fine, and often does. Okay, but the reason we have entire libraries full of laws on intestate succession is that many people never complete a will or name a life insurance beneficiary. It has to default to someone. ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2014, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-should-i-care-about-gay-marriage/681766/404 "2014-02-26T17:44:47Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Okay, but the reason we have entire libraries full of laws on intestate succession is that many people never complete a will or name a life insurance beneficiary. It has to default to someone. Sure, but we do have those things. We didn’t invent marriage just to avoid that. ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2014, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-should-i-care-about-gay-marriage/681766/405 "2014-02-26T17:47:06Z")
> [@lance\_strongarm](#): > > You’re mistaken. I’m not dismissing it, I’m asking for a coherent statement on why the state has an interest in marriage. I didn’t say that doesn’t exist. > > Again, I’m not dismissing it, just asking for a more robust defense of it. One that goes beyond the standard right-wing “it’s for the children.” Or not, if that’s not possible. > > It started with post 306. Question remains, then. _Why do you support marriage?_ ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2014, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-should-i-care-about-gay-marriage/681766/406 "2014-02-26T17:47:31Z")
> [@Antinor01](#): > > Title vii of the Civil Rights Act (that I linked to earlier) has been defined by the US Department of Labor to include time off for religious reasons. I wasn’t talking about giving time off for religious reasons. I was talking about employers who give ALL employees a holiday on federal holidays (including Christmas). They aren’t required to do that. They might have to give Christmas off for devout Christians, but that’s why it’s a holiday, because so many people would be out anyway. ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2014, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-should-i-care-about-gay-marriage/681766/407 "2014-02-26T17:48:44Z")
> [@andros](#): > > Question remains, then. _Why do you support marriage?_ I get goodies out of it. ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2014, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-should-i-care-about-gay-marriage/681766/408 "2014-02-26T17:51:24Z")
> [@lance\_strongarm](#): > > I get goodies out of it. Not sure if serious or just smartass. [/fry] ---
**Author:** ![Melchior](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Melchior](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melchior)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2014, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-should-i-care-about-gay-marriage/681766/409 "2014-02-26T18:24:31Z")
> [@lance\_strongarm](#): > > I wasn’t talking about giving time off for religious reasons. I was talking about employers who give ALL employees a holiday on federal holidays (including Christmas). They aren’t required to do that. They might have to give Christmas off for devout Christians, but that’s why it’s a holiday, because so many people would be out anyway. That’s not a federal holiday. ---
**Author:** ![Melchior](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Melchior](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melchior)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2014, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-should-i-care-about-gay-marriage/681766/410 "2014-02-26T18:26:47Z")
> [@deryk](#): > > And I still don’t see why that’s relevant. With the exception of tax benefits, pretty much everything that marriage does can be done through a collection of legal paperwork. Precisely, and it is one of my primary objections to legalizing same-sex marriages. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2014, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-should-i-care-about-gay-marriage/681766/411 "2014-02-26T18:27:08Z")
I’ve never seen a new poster who so consistently makes things up. Christmas **is** [a federal holiday](http://www.opm.gov/policy-data-oversight/snow-dismissal-procedures/federal-holidays/#url=2014). ---
**Author:** ![Melchior](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Melchior](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melchior)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2014, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-should-i-care-about-gay-marriage/681766/412 "2014-02-26T18:28:44Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > I’ve never seen a new poster who so consistently makes things up. Christmas **is** [a federal holiday](http://www.opm.gov/policy-data-oversight/snow-dismissal-procedures/federal-holidays/#url=2014). Yes! That’s what I said, and it’s a religious one! ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2014, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-should-i-care-about-gay-marriage/681766/413 "2014-02-26T18:29:33Z")
> [@Melchior](#): > > Precisely, and it is one of my primary objections to legalizing same-sex marriages. If heterosexual couples can get access to those benefits through marriage, same-sex couples should be able to do the same. Anything else is separate-but-equal, especially if it means the same-sex couples have to go through a bunch of extra time and expense and still can’t get some of those benefits. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2014, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-should-i-care-about-gay-marriage/681766/414 "2014-02-26T18:31:12Z")
> [@Melchior](#): > > Yes! That’s what I said, and it’s a religious one! You just said it _wasn’t_ a federal holiday. This was you, right? > [@](#): > > That’s not a federal holiday. ---
**Author:** ![Antinor01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecae2f/32.png) [@Antinor01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Antinor01)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2014, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-should-i-care-about-gay-marriage/681766/415 "2014-02-26T18:34:20Z")
> [@Melchior](#): > > Precisely, and it is one of my primary objections to legalizing same-sex marriages. However, many things can’t be. Social Security, tax filing status, Immigration rights, Veteran benefits, access to use FMLA (sometimes offered, but not a guaranteed protection)…that’s just a handful of them off the top of my head. ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2014, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-should-i-care-about-gay-marriage/681766/416 "2014-02-26T18:46:42Z")
> [@Melchior](#): > > Precisely, and it is one of my primary objections to legalizing same-sex marriages. Then you must also object to legal heterosexual marriages! ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2014, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-should-i-care-about-gay-marriage/681766/417 "2014-02-26T18:48:12Z")
> [@andros](#): > > Not sure if serious or just smartass. [/fry] Honestly, me neither. I didn’t know this was going to get this far. Seriously, I think marriage is still a valuable thing. It makes families stronger, and people happier, and all that. I don’t know if it’s as vital as it once was, but it’s still cool. ---
**Author:** ![Melchior](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Melchior](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melchior)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2014, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-should-i-care-about-gay-marriage/681766/418 "2014-02-26T18:48:36Z")
> [@lance\_strongarm](#): > > Then you must also object to legal heterosexual marriages! No, those are traditional. We don’t need any ‘workaround’. ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2014, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-should-i-care-about-gay-marriage/681766/419 "2014-02-26T18:51:31Z")
> [@Melchior](#): > > No, those are traditional. We don’t need any ‘workaround’. So it all boils down to you don’t want gay marriage because we don’t have gay marriage. Awesome logic there. ---
**Author:** ![Melchior](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Melchior](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melchior)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2014, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-should-i-care-about-gay-marriage/681766/420 "2014-02-26T18:54:13Z")
> [@lance\_strongarm](#): > > So it all boils down to you don’t want gay marriage because we don’t have gay marriage. > > Awesome logic there. It’s unnecessary to accomplish the goals stated by the complainers, and the methods used to attain legitimacy concern me very deeply. The courts are being abused, and judges are morons who buy these idiotic arguments. I think the judiciary in this country are collectively the stupidest group of individuals alive. ---
**Author:** ![Farin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e79b87/32.png) [@Farin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Farin)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2014, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-should-i-care-about-gay-marriage/681766/421 "2014-02-26T18:56:56Z")
> [@Melchior](#): > > It’s unnecessary to accomplish the goals stated by the complainers, and the methods used to attain legitimacy concern me very deeply. The courts are being abused, and judges are morons who buy these idiotic arguments. I think the judiciary in this country are collectively the stupidest group of individuals alive. Really? _Really?_ The foundation of our nation is based on the concept of equality. Even with the abhorrent installment of 3/5ths of a person for blacks and no personhood for women, we have overcome those and continued to march forward. Why should we stop the march forward, now, because bigots get laws passed that actively discriminate against people? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-should-i-care-about-gay-marriage/681766.md?page=20) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-should-i-care-about-gay-marriage/681766.md?page=22)