# Why should I care about gay marriage? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 20, 2014, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-should-i-care-about-gay-marriage/681766 "2014-02-20T02:37:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 25
**Author:** ![Melchior](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Melchior](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melchior)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2014, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-should-i-care-about-gay-marriage/681766/482 "2014-02-26T19:46:54Z")
> [@Antinor01](#): > > Neither is yours, as evidenced by repeated national polls showing that you are in the minority. Again, appeal to popular opinion is a fallacy: [http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/appeal-to-popularity.html](http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/appeal-to-popularity.html) Look, guys and gals, I have a degree in philosophy. I know every fallacy there is. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2014, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-should-i-care-about-gay-marriage/681766/483 "2014-02-26T19:48:28Z")
> [@Melchior](#): > > Again, appeal to popular opinion is a fallacy: > > [http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/appeal-to-popularity.html](http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/appeal-to-popularity.html) > > Look, guys and gals, I have a degree in philosophy. I know every fallacy there is. Isn’t he just the cutest thing? ---
**Author:** ![deryk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e36b37/32.png) [@deryk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/deryk)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2014, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-should-i-care-about-gay-marriage/681766/484 "2014-02-26T19:48:49Z")
> [@Melchior](#): > > Look, guys and gals, I have a degree in philosophy. I know every fallacy there is. That doesn’t mean you’re right. Argument from Fallacy. ---
**Author:** ![Melchior](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Melchior](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melchior)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2014, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-should-i-care-about-gay-marriage/681766/485 "2014-02-26T19:48:50Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > I counted 12 states that have approved the recognition of same-sex marriage through either referendums or by changing the law. What do you think doing it that way, **Melchior**? > > Hmm, you seem to have downgraded your claim to “a great many.” It doesn’t matter either way: if a law is found to violate the Constitution, the fact that it’s traditional does not save it. See _Lawrence v. Texas_, where the Supreme Court threw out anti-sodomy laws. I explained this to you on page three but I guess you forgot about it. Believe it or not, sodomy is a very-well established tradition. Plato was homosexual. ---
**Author:** ![Antinor01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecae2f/32.png) [@Antinor01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Antinor01)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2014, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-should-i-care-about-gay-marriage/681766/486 "2014-02-26T19:49:09Z")
> [@Melchior](#): > > Again, appeal to popular opinion is a fallacy. > > [http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/appeal-to-popularity.html](http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/appeal-to-popularity.html) I’m not appealing to anything. You said the argument wasn’t persuasive, it is to the majority. And since we’re speaking of logical fallacies…[http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/appeal-to-tradition.html](http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/appeal-to-tradition.html) ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2014, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-should-i-care-about-gay-marriage/681766/487 "2014-02-26T19:49:48Z")
> [@Melchior](#): > > Not an argument. If you are asking a mass-psychological question, ask someone else. :rolleyes: Since you object to judges overruling these “traditional” marriage laws, I was asking what you think about changing the law through the legislative process. > [@Melchior](#): > > Believe it or not, sodomy is a very-well established tradition. Plato was homosexual. Sodomy and homosexuality aren’t the same thing. Anti-sodomy laws are certainly nothing new, and the basis for the _Lawrence_ ruling was not “sodomy is traditional.” ---
**Author:** ![Melchior](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Melchior](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melchior)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2014, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-should-i-care-about-gay-marriage/681766/488 "2014-02-26T19:50:03Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Isn’t he just the cutest thing? The fact that people can be influenced by propaganda is well known. That’s why people use propaganda. Duh. ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2014, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-should-i-care-about-gay-marriage/681766/489 "2014-02-26T19:52:48Z")
> [@Melchior](#): > > You can’t always have what you want in life. That’s right. Gays in 17 states are legally able to get married and within another 10 years, most of the US will allow gay marriage. And they will be forced through by “activist” judges and voted through by liberals and like-minded people. You should take your advice, lay back, and just accept it because hateful people often can’t always have what they want in life. > [@Melchior](#): > > There is no issue. It’s not marriage. It’s not ‘unfair discrimination’ to say so and to reject applications for marriage licenses for this. Its marriage because a piece of paper issued by the government says its marriage. It’s just as legitimate as marriages in a church. In fact, please excuse the gay couples who will now be collecting money that belongs to married people, because you sure as hell can’t stop them! 😛 > [@Melchior](#): > > Again, appeal to popular opinion is a fallacy: > > [http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/appeal-to-popularity.html](http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/appeal-to-popularity.html) > > Look, guys and gals, I have a degree in philosophy. I know every fallacy there is. WATCH OUT GUYS! HE’S GOT A DEGREE IN PHILOSOPHY! STAND BACK OR HE MIGHT BE FORCED TO USE IT! :D:D:D ---
**Author:** ![Farin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e79b87/32.png) [@Farin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Farin)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2014, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-should-i-care-about-gay-marriage/681766/490 "2014-02-26T19:54:14Z")
> [@Melchior](#): > > There is no issue. It’s not marriage. It’s not ‘unfair discrimination’ to say so and to reject applications for marriage licenses for this. You say that it’s not discrimination over and over again. Prove why it’s not discriminating or stop saying it. > [@Melchior](#): > > Again, appeal to popular opinion is a fallacy: > > [http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/appeal-to-popularity.html](http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/appeal-to-popularity.html) > > Look, guys and gals, I have a degree in philosophy. I know every fallacy there is. Appeal to authority, changing of topic. If you have a degree in philosophy, you should have taken some extra credit oration and debate classes. It may have helped you write persuading arguments. > [@Melchior](#): > > The fact that people can be influenced by propaganda is well known. That’s why people use propaganda. > Duh. Association fallacy. ---
**Author:** ![Melchior](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Melchior](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melchior)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2014, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-should-i-care-about-gay-marriage/681766/491 "2014-02-26T19:54:32Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > :rolleyes: Since you object to judges overruling these “traditional” marriage laws, I was asking what you think about changing the law through the legislative process. > Sodomy and homosexuality aren’t the same thing. I object to judges overruling referenda. Very much so. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2014, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-should-i-care-about-gay-marriage/681766/492 "2014-02-26T19:55:02Z")
> [@Melchior](#): > > The fact that people can be influenced by propaganda is well known. That’s why people use propaganda. I wouldn’t call it propoganda, but whatever it is, [it’s working](http://www.pollingreport.com/civil.htm). Yay for America! Yay for gay marriage! ---
**Author:** ![Melchior](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Melchior](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melchior)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2014, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-should-i-care-about-gay-marriage/681766/493 "2014-02-26T19:55:37Z")
> [@Farin](#): > > You say that it’s not discrimination over and over again. Prove why it’s not discriminating or stop saying it. > Appeal to authority, changing of topic. If you have a degree in philosophy, you should have taken some extra credit oration and debate classes. It may have helped you write persuading arguments. > > Association fallacy. You have not proved that it _is_. It is \*your \*burden of proof, bubba. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2014, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-should-i-care-about-gay-marriage/681766/494 "2014-02-26T19:56:03Z")
> [@Melchior](#): > > I object to judges overruling referenda. Very much so. So you’re OK with the referenda that have been for gay marriage, voted on and enacted in multiple states? ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2014, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-should-i-care-about-gay-marriage/681766/495 "2014-02-26T19:56:26Z")
> [@Melchior](#): > > The fact that people can be influenced by propaganda is well known. That’s why people use propaganda. Wow, so you’re discounting the opinions of the people even as you spout off about majorities opposing gay marriage? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2014, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-should-i-care-about-gay-marriage/681766/496 "2014-02-26T19:57:11Z")
> [@Melchior](#): > > I object to judges overruling referenda. Very much so. This is either a huge reading comprehension fail or you are dodging the question and doing a bad job of it. When states recognize SSM through the legislative process, are your objections satisfied? That is, do you think it’s Constitutional and legally OK? ---
**Author:** ![Melchior](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Melchior](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melchior)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2014, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-should-i-care-about-gay-marriage/681766/497 "2014-02-26T19:57:24Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > So you’re OK with the referenda that have been for gay marriage, voted on and enacted in multiple states? Would you be OK with judges overruling _them_? ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2014, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-should-i-care-about-gay-marriage/681766/498 "2014-02-26T19:57:39Z")
> [@Melchior](#): > > I object to judges overruling referenda. Very much so. Judges should overrule anything that violates the Constitution. The people, through a referendum, may not violate the Constitution any more than any government official can. ---
**Author:** ![Melchior](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Melchior](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melchior)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2014, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-should-i-care-about-gay-marriage/681766/499 "2014-02-26T19:58:39Z")
> [@lance\_strongarm](#): > > Wow, so you’re discounting the opinions of the people even as you spout off about majorities opposing gay marriage? I never said anything about ‘majorities opposing gay marriage’. I mentioned some referenda. Different thing altogether. ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2014, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-should-i-care-about-gay-marriage/681766/500 "2014-02-26T19:58:49Z")
> [@Melchior](#): > > Look, guys and gals, I have a degree in philosophy. I know every fallacy there is. Yes, you do seem to know all the fallacies. :eek: You just used the appeal to tradition fallacy, for instance. ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2014, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-should-i-care-about-gay-marriage/681766/501 "2014-02-26T19:59:50Z")
> [@Melchior](#): > > I never said anything about ‘majorities opposing gay marriage’. I mentioned some referenda. Different thing altogether. No, they’re the same damn thing! A referendum is passed when a majority of the voters vote yes. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-should-i-care-about-gay-marriage/681766.md?page=24) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-should-i-care-about-gay-marriage/681766.md?page=26)