# Why should I care about gay marriage? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 20, 2014, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-should-i-care-about-gay-marriage/681766 "2014-02-20T02:37:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 26
**Author:** ![Melchior](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Melchior](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melchior)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2014, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-should-i-care-about-gay-marriage/681766/502 "2014-02-26T20:00:24Z")
> [@lance\_strongarm](#): > > Judges should overrule anything that violates the Constitution. The people, through a referendum, may not violate the Constitution any more than any government official can. Many of these were amendments enacted through referenda. A constitutional amendment changes the constitution. It cannot, therefore, be unconstitutional. It requires another constitutional amendment. This was done to establish and then later to repeal prohibition. Remember? Judges have no business overruling a constitutional amendment. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2014, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-should-i-care-about-gay-marriage/681766/503 "2014-02-26T20:01:59Z")
A referendum isn’t the same thing as a Constitutional amendment. ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2014, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-should-i-care-about-gay-marriage/681766/504 "2014-02-26T20:02:22Z")
> [@Melchior](#): > > A constitutional amendment changes the constitution. It cannot, therefore, be unconstitutional. It requires another constitutional amendment. This was done to establish and then later to repeal prohibition. Remember? A state constitutional amendment cannot violate the U.S. Constitution. Judges can overturn it. ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2014, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-should-i-care-about-gay-marriage/681766/505 "2014-02-26T20:03:24Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > A referendum isn’t the same thing as a Constitutional amendment. A referendum to pass a constitutional amendment is a referendum (to pass a constitutional amendment). ---
**Author:** ![Farin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e79b87/32.png) [@Farin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Farin)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2014, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-should-i-care-about-gay-marriage/681766/506 "2014-02-26T20:04:39Z")
> [@Melchior](#): > > Would you be OK with judges overruling _them_? Yes. I may not like the verdict or even the reason, but if it was based on a sound legal reason I would understand it. If necessary, I would do what I could to overturn the legal reason. Since I’m not a lawyer, i would assume that my involvement would be paying an appropriate lawyer. ---
**Author:** ![Melchior](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Melchior](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melchior)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2014, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-should-i-care-about-gay-marriage/681766/507 "2014-02-26T20:04:46Z")
> [@lance\_strongarm](#): > > A referendum to pass a constitutional amendment is a referendum (to pass a constitutional amendment). Give that man a prize! ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2014, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-should-i-care-about-gay-marriage/681766/508 "2014-02-26T20:05:41Z")
> [@Melchior](#): > > Give that man a prize! So, a degree in philosophy, eh? ---
**Author:** ![Antinor01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecae2f/32.png) [@Antinor01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Antinor01)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2014, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-should-i-care-about-gay-marriage/681766/509 "2014-02-26T20:06:03Z")
> [@lance\_strongarm](#): > > Yes, you do seem to know all the fallacies. :eek: > > You just used the appeal to tradition fallacy, for instance. Not to mention appeal to authority…claiming himself as the authority on philosophy. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2014, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-should-i-care-about-gay-marriage/681766/510 "2014-02-26T20:07:11Z")
> [@lance\_strongarm](#): > > A referendum to pass a constitutional amendment is a referendum (to pass a constitutional amendment). That’s one type of referendum, yes. You can’t use the words interchangeably and expect anything coherent to come out, **Melchior**. And I’m still waiting for an answer about SSM legislation. ---
**Author:** ![Melchior](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Melchior](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melchior)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2014, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-should-i-care-about-gay-marriage/681766/511 "2014-02-26T20:10:52Z")
> [@Antinor01](#): > > Not to mention appeal to authority…claiming himself as the authority on philosophy. An appeal to authority is a fallacy only when the ‘authority’ is unqualified to express an opinion. An appeal to tradition (or custom) is appropriate when the question is about the tradition itself, whether it deserves to have any force. Obviously, a great deal of our lives and culture is governed by tradition and custom. there are numerous cases where people of differing cultures come into conflict. This is a manufactured conflict. There is no legitimacy to claims of ‘unfair discrimination’. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2014, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-should-i-care-about-gay-marriage/681766/512 "2014-02-26T20:12:17Z")
> [@Melchior](#): > > An appeal to authority is a fallacy only when the ‘authority’ is unqualified to express an opinion. For instance, if the “authority” insists loudly upon his own authority while repeatedly getting basic facts wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Melchior](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Melchior](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melchior)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2014, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-should-i-care-about-gay-marriage/681766/513 "2014-02-26T20:12:23Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > That’s one type of referendum, yes. You can’t use the words interchangeably and expect anything coherent to come out, **Melchior**. I didn’t write that. ---
**Author:** ![Melchior](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Melchior](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melchior)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2014, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-should-i-care-about-gay-marriage/681766/514 "2014-02-26T20:13:55Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > For instance, if the “authority” insists loudly upon his own authority while repeatedly getting basic facts wrong. I am discussing fallacies, and on that topic I \*do \*have some expertise. ---
**Author:** ![Antinor01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecae2f/32.png) [@Antinor01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Antinor01)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2014, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-should-i-care-about-gay-marriage/681766/515 "2014-02-26T20:15:20Z")
> [@Melchior](#): > > An appeal to authority is a fallacy only when the ‘authority’ is unqualified to express an opinion. > An appeal to tradition (or custom) is appropriate when the question is about the tradition itself, whether it deserves to have any force. Obviously, a great deal of our lives and culture is governed by tradition and custom. there are numerous cases where people of differing cultures come into conflict. This is a manufactured conflict. There is no legitimacy to claims of ‘unfair discrimination’. There is no proof that you are a legitimate authority on any topic. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2014, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-should-i-care-about-gay-marriage/681766/516 "2014-02-26T20:19:04Z")
> [@Melchior](#): > > I am discussing fallacies, and on that topic I \*do \*have some expertise. Based on your posts in this thread, you manifestly do not. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2014, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-should-i-care-about-gay-marriage/681766/517 "2014-02-26T20:22:47Z")
> [@Melchior](#): > > I am discussing fallacies, and on that topic I \*do \*have some expertise. It’s a good match for your legal expertise. Please answer this question: > [@Marley23](#): > > When states recognize SSM through the legislative process, are your objections satisfied? That is, do you think it’s Constitutional and legally OK? ---
**Author:** ![deryk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e36b37/32.png) [@deryk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/deryk)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2014, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-should-i-care-about-gay-marriage/681766/518 "2014-02-26T20:28:09Z")
> [@Melchior](#): > > I am discussing fallacies, and on that topic I \*do \*have some expertise. Yes, you are discussing fallacies. Throughout the conversation you’ve been avoiding relevant questions by pointing out fallacies instead. In fact, you’re making no arguments at all except for the argument that we’re using fallacies and that you’re an expert in that area. What an excellent red herring you’ve created. I feel it necessary to point out that you are not right by default, and assuming that you are just because you have not received a satisfactory answer is itself a fallacy. ---
**Author:** ![Farin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e79b87/32.png) [@Farin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Farin)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2014, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-should-i-care-about-gay-marriage/681766/519 "2014-02-26T20:34:05Z")
> [@Melchior](#): > > An appeal to authority is a fallacy only when the ‘authority’ is unqualified to express an opinion. > An appeal to tradition (or custom) is appropriate when the question is about the tradition itself, whether it deserves to have any force. Obviously, a great deal of our lives and culture is governed by tradition and custom. there are numerous cases where people of differing cultures come into conflict. This is a manufactured conflict. There is no legitimacy to claims of ‘unfair discrimination’. Just because it is governed by tradition or custom does not make that tradition or custom necessarily correct. It \*\*only \*\*makes that tradition or custom extant. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2014, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-should-i-care-about-gay-marriage/681766/520 "2014-02-26T21:23:17Z")
> [@Melchior](#): > > Would you be OK with judges overruling _them_? I’ve asked that question multiple times – are you afraid to answer it? ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2014, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-should-i-care-about-gay-marriage/681766/521 "2014-02-26T21:28:29Z")
This seems appropriate to put here: A Texas judge just [struck down](http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/federal-judge-strikes-down-texas-gay-marriage-ban-n39466) the state’s ban on gay marriage. Keep this topic bumped and we might have a few more red states join that group before Mel gets banned! 😃 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-should-i-care-about-gay-marriage/681766.md?page=25) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-should-i-care-about-gay-marriage/681766.md?page=27)