# Why should I care about gay marriage?
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-should-i-care-about-gay-marriage/681766
**Category:** Great Debates
**Created:** [February 20, 2014, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-should-i-care-about-gay-marriage/681766 "2014-02-20T02:37:39Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 8
### Author:  [@Melchior](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melchior)
#### Post date: [February 24, 2014, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-should-i-care-about-gay-marriage/681766/142 "2014-02-24T21:37:07Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#):
>
> There are also people that have no problem with black people, but (for them) interracial marriage is something else altogether. Thankfully, the law doesn’t pay attention to old bigots like that. The law should also ignore bigotry against homosexual couples.
It’s not bigotry. What about laws forbidding bigamy? What foundation is there for them but custom?
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### Author:  [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)
#### Post date: [February 24, 2014, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-should-i-care-about-gay-marriage/681766/143 "2014-02-24T21:37:23Z")
> [@Inner\_Stickler](#):
>
> Much like when religious people wonder how it is that atheists can not believe in a god and simultaneously not be thieving murdering rapists, I get uncomfortable and nervous when anti-marriage equalists start talking about bestiality. Why is _that_ where they jump to?
Because most anti-gay-marriage folks are also “eww, gay sex is so icky” folks (or alternately, “gay sex is so incredibly tempting and evil that I must make sure no one ever knows I like it” folks).
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### Author:  [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)
#### Post date: [February 24, 2014, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-should-i-care-about-gay-marriage/681766/144 "2014-02-24T21:37:36Z")
> [@Melchior](#):
>
> I said ‘ultimately based on’. In the past, couples were engaged first, and when a child was conceived they could marry. Offspring (especially males) were important, particularly after the Black Death reduced the population of Europe by roughly half. King Henry VIII went through several wives, you may recall, because he wanted a son.
So, gay marriage is wrong because rats carry fleas and monarchical dynasties? I’m not getting the link-up here.
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### Author:  [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)
#### Post date: [February 24, 2014, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-should-i-care-about-gay-marriage/681766/145 "2014-02-24T21:37:38Z")
> [@Melchior](#):
>
> I said ‘ultimately based on’. In the past, couples were engaged first, and when a child was conceived they could marry. Offspring (especially males) were important, particularly after the Black Death reduced the population of Europe by roughly half. King Henry VIII went through several wives, you may recall, because he wanted a son.
This may have escaped your attention, but we’re no longer living in the past. I don’t see a good reason why contemporary marriage practices should be constrained by how medieval peasants viewed the institution.
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### Author:  [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)
#### Post date: [February 24, 2014, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-should-i-care-about-gay-marriage/681766/146 "2014-02-24T21:38:30Z")
> [@Melchior](#):
>
> It’s not bigotry. What about laws forbidding bigamy? What foundation is there for them but custom?
Who cares? If you want to talk about bigamy, start a new thread. The only foundation for laws against gay marriage are (bigoted) custom, yes, but they are a bad and discriminatory custom that should be changed.
Gay people getting married hurts no one and helps lots of families.
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### Author:  [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)
#### Post date: [February 24, 2014, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-should-i-care-about-gay-marriage/681766/147 "2014-02-24T21:39:20Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#):
>
> What does that have to do with gay marriage? If you want to talk about those things, start another thread.
See Post 118.
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### Author:  [@Melchior](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melchior)
#### Post date: [February 24, 2014, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-should-i-care-about-gay-marriage/681766/148 "2014-02-24T21:39:33Z")
> [@Inner\_Stickler](#):
>
> Much like when religious people wonder how it is that atheists can not believe in a god and simultaneously not be thieving murdering rapists, I get uncomfortable and nervous when anti-marriage equalists start talking about bestiality. Why is _that_ where they jump to?
Why not? The only basis for forbidding it is custom!
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### Author:  [@Melchior](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melchior)
#### Post date: [February 24, 2014, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-should-i-care-about-gay-marriage/681766/149 "2014-02-24T21:40:33Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#):
>
> Who cares? If you want to talk about bigamy, start a new thread. The only foundation for laws against gay marriage are (bigoted) custom, yes, but they are a bad and discriminatory custom that should be changed.
>
> Gay people getting married hurts no one and helps lots of families.
It’s not marriage.
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### Author:  [@Antinor01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Antinor01)
#### Post date: [February 24, 2014, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-should-i-care-about-gay-marriage/681766/150 "2014-02-24T21:41:51Z")
> [@Melchior](#):
>
> Why not? The only basis for forbidding it is custom!
I wondered how long it would take for this old trope to come up.
I suppose you’ve never heard of consent?
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### Author:  [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)
#### Post date: [February 24, 2014, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-should-i-care-about-gay-marriage/681766/151 "2014-02-24T21:41:56Z")
> [@Melchior](#):
>
> It’s not marriage.
According to you. I call it marriage, and so do many others… and pretty soon, a large majority of Americans will call it marriage. The definitions of words change all the time.
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### Author:  [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)
#### Post date: [February 24, 2014, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-should-i-care-about-gay-marriage/681766/152 "2014-02-24T21:42:31Z")
> [@Melchior](#):
>
> Black men and Asian men and white men are all men and not women.
I still don’t understand. In what way, which is obvious to you, is race not a valid basis for banning marriage while gender is?
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### Author:  [@Melchior](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melchior)
#### Post date: [February 24, 2014, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-should-i-care-about-gay-marriage/681766/153 "2014-02-24T21:43:16Z")
> [@Miller](#):
>
> This may have escaped your attention, but we’re no longer living in the past. I don’t see a good reason why contemporary marriage practices should be constrained by how medieval peasants viewed the institution.
Then why have marriage at all?
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### Author:  [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)
#### Post date: [February 24, 2014, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-should-i-care-about-gay-marriage/681766/154 "2014-02-24T21:43:44Z")
> [@Melchior](#):
>
> It’s not bigotry. What about laws forbidding bigamy? What foundation is there for them but custom?
Bigamy is forbidden by law because it’s a form of fraud - it’s entering into a second marriage _without telling either spouse about the other marriage._
I suspect you’re thinking of _polygamy_, which is the term for marriages where all partners are aware of each other. And there’s no particular good reason for polygamy to be against the law, so if SSM ultimately leads to legalized polygamy… well, so what?
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### Author:  [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)
#### Post date: [February 24, 2014, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-should-i-care-about-gay-marriage/681766/155 "2014-02-24T21:44:17Z")
> [@Melchior](#):
>
> Why not? The only basis for forbidding it is custom!
I’m biting my tongue here. But no, there’s also the argument that it’s cruel to animals and that we should treat animals well.
> [@Melchior](#):
>
> It’s not marriage.
A dictionary is not an argument. The definition of marriage has changed many times; it’s changed again in recent years. The definition of “gay” changed, too, but that’s not an argument against gay marriage.
> [@Melchior](#):
>
> Then why have marriage at all?
Because people want to get married, and it’s arguably in society’s interest to promote stable families. Why do you think we have to choose between a 17th/18th/19th century version of marriage and no marriage at all?
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### Author:  [@Melchior](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melchior)
#### Post date: [February 24, 2014, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-should-i-care-about-gay-marriage/681766/156 "2014-02-24T21:44:29Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#):
>
> I still don’t understand. In what way, which is obvious to you, is race not a valid basis for banning marriage while gender is?
‘Sex’, not ‘gender’.
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### Author:  [@Melchior](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melchior)
#### Post date: [February 24, 2014, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-should-i-care-about-gay-marriage/681766/157 "2014-02-24T21:46:01Z")
> [@Miller](#):
>
> Bigamy is forbidden by law because it’s a form of fraud - it’s entering into a second marriage _without telling either spouse about the other marriage._
>
> I suspect you’re thinking of _polygamy_, which is the term for marriages where all partners are aware of each other. And there’s no particular good reason for polygamy to be against the law, so if SSM ultimately leads to legalized polygamy… well, so what?
I am simply pointing out the consequences of just throwing out the notion of custom having any force. Baby, bathwater…etc.
Bigamy laws have no stronger foundation than custom.
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### Author:  [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)
#### Post date: [February 24, 2014, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-should-i-care-about-gay-marriage/681766/158 "2014-02-24T21:48:15Z")
> [@Melchior](#):
>
> ‘Sex’, not ‘gender’.
Yes, couples, married or not and not always couples, do often have sex, sometimes of a kind that other people think of as icky. Is that your point somehow? And where do you address race as not being a valid basis for banning marriage?
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### Author:  [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)
#### Post date: [February 24, 2014, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-should-i-care-about-gay-marriage/681766/159 "2014-02-24T21:48:19Z")
> [@Melchior](#):
>
> Then why have marriage at all?
The social value in recognizing and encouraging long term pair-bonding.
An easy way to share assets between a couple.
An easy way to designate next-of-kin in legal and medical decisions.
Establishing a clear inheritance claim for the survivor of a long term relationship.
And, of course, love.
What are the values you perceive in matrimony? Why shouldn’t gay people be allowed to partake in those values?
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### Author:  [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)
#### Post date: [February 24, 2014, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-should-i-care-about-gay-marriage/681766/160 "2014-02-24T21:49:25Z")
Because buttsecks, apparently.
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### Author:  [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)
#### Post date: [February 24, 2014, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-should-i-care-about-gay-marriage/681766/161 "2014-02-24T21:50:28Z")
Anybody else think it’s ironic that **Melchior** thinks the dictionary is the highest authority in this discussion but he doesn’t seem to care that polyamory and bigamy aren’t the same thing?
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