# Why should I fear Speaker Pelosi? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 10, 2006, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-should-i-fear-speaker-pelosi/379949 "2006-11-10T23:06:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Llama\_Llogophile](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@Llama\_Llogophile](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Llama_Llogophile)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2006, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-should-i-fear-speaker-pelosi/379949/1 "2006-11-10T23:06:37Z")
I don’t know a great deal about Nancy Pelosi other than what I’ve read in her Wikipedia article. Obviously some serious left-wing credentials there, particularly on gun control and abortion. So she’s a person conservatives aren’t going to care for very much. OK, that’s fine. But the vitriole I’ve been hearing from my conservative acquaintances sounds a lot like that which informs their opinions of Hillary Clinton, and seems to lack specifics. Mostly I’m hearing a lot of, “Well, I just don’t like her.” However, I’m a details guy, and I’m interested in specifics. So please tell me what about Speaker-Elect Pelosi’s policies you don’t like and why I should fear her coming tenure. I’d be particularly interested in how you would contrast her policies to Dems of varying stripes, like say Ted Kennedy, Jim Webb, and Hillary Clinton. Should I be more worried about Pelosi than them? ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2006, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-should-i-fear-speaker-pelosi/379949/2 "2006-11-10T23:14:31Z")
BeCAUSE she’s going to trrrink your blo-o-o-o-od? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2006, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-should-i-fear-speaker-pelosi/379949/3 "2006-11-10T23:22:33Z")
Good God, man! She’s from _San Francisco!_ ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2006, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-should-i-fear-speaker-pelosi/379949/4 "2006-11-10T23:23:11Z")
Here is the sort of silliness that “serious” (Beck and Mowbray), commentators are drooling: [http://mediamatters.org/items/200610310018](http://mediamatters.org/items/200610310018) Basically, Pelosi is a bit more Liberal than the more fearful Right wingers are comfortable with and she comes from _(shudder)_ California. This is not to say that there are not legitimate concerns (from a Right wing perspective), but with no power for most of her years in office, it is hard to tell how much of her rhetoric expresses genuine scary things and how much was simply intended to energize the opposition through the long years without power. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2006, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-should-i-fear-speaker-pelosi/379949/5 "2006-11-10T23:34:24Z")
You’re behind the times, **Mach** ; the new conservative spin is that Pelosi is (or at least is now going to be) a moderate, not a wild-eyed lefty anymore. This new attitude has been reflected in recent quotes and comments around here by, frinstance, [magellan01](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=7944594&postcount=22): > [@](#): > > This was bantered about very much last night. “If Pelosi does what she has claimed she will do and seek to be a reasonable, moderate voice in The House, will she be able to control more extreme members like Conyers.” One example is that Pelosi has vowed to quash moves to attempt to impeach Bush. and by [Evil](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=7946095&postcount=71)[One](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=7946457&postcount=89): > [@](#): > > It all comes down to whether the Democrats have a quiet little backroom sitdown with their far-left element and offer them a heaping cup of STFU along with thier pastries. If Pelosi is smart, she’ll nominate all of the chairpeople who have been demonized by the republicans…and quietly inform them that they are on a very short leash. […] > > Anyone who doesn’t see this election as the acendancy of the moderates is either not paying attention or is letting idoelogical fervor overtake reality. I don’t know how some conservative Republican pundits are planning to reconcile their new take on Pelosi as a moderate Democrat with their earlier [pants-pissing scare talk](http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/blogs/sfgate/detail?blogid=14&entry_id=7189) about what a dangerous lefty she is: > [@](#): > > San Francisco Rep. Nancy Pelosi is the most dangerous liberal in America, who would open U.S. borders to immigrants and terrorists, raise taxes, retreat from the war on terror, and attempt to impeach President Bush if she wins the speakership of the House of Representatives in November. > > That’s the charge from current House Speaker Dennis Hastert in a sharply worded e-mail to Republican donors. > > “You can be sure that under a Pelosi-led Congress, the conservative ideals of family values and an unwavering commitment to our troops will be ignored, while the interest of San Francisco liberals and trial lawyers will be heard loud and clear by Nancy Pelosi and her liberal friends,” the letter reads. > > The undated appeal asks for contributions from $50 to $500 in the next 48 hours to “help me make sure the Pelosi agenda doesn’t become law.” > > Republicans have used Pelosi’s liberal credentials before as a way to rally conservatives, though Hastert has mostly refrained from singling out the House Democratic leader. > > “Let’s be honest for a moment. This is a tough year for conservatives. Democrats and their friends in the media are anticipating a victory in November and unless we stop her, Nancy Pelosi will take over my chair as Speaker of the House and control Congress. I don’t know about you, but that sure sounds like a nightmare scenario to me,” Hastert’s plea reads. […] > > The e-mail was distributed by GOPUSA, which also sent out a similarly worded appeal from Pelosi’s Republican challenger in San Francisco, Mike DeNunzio. The dark horse candidate calls the Pelosi agenda “very simple: Retreat. Surrender. Revenge.” If conservatives were to keep on calling Pelosi a dangerous liberal extremist now that the Dems have taken Congress, they would have to conclude that American voters have decided that even dangerous liberal extremists are a better choice than Republicans. So voila, Pelosi is suddenly described as a moderate, and the election is described as a victory for centrism and a rejection of liberalism. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2006, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-should-i-fear-speaker-pelosi/379949/6 "2006-11-10T23:39:36Z")
That is just so depressing, thinking that a major step forward has occured and then find out that the conservatives scored a crushing victory _again_! ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2006, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-should-i-fear-speaker-pelosi/379949/7 "2006-11-10T23:44:54Z")
\I’m stuck on her looks. Had no idea the woman was 66 years old. Would that I could find me someone that ages that gracefully\ The fact that she’s damn smart and a liberal to boot…well, best stop right here. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![marshmallow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@marshmallow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/marshmallow)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2006, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-should-i-fear-speaker-pelosi/379949/8 "2006-11-10T23:46:25Z")
Mandatory abortions for all. I don’t care if you’re a single guy living by yourself – you’re getting an abortion, and there’s not anything you can do about it. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2006, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-should-i-fear-speaker-pelosi/379949/9 "2006-11-10T23:48:17Z")
[QUOTE=Kimstu] You’re behind the times, **Mach** ; the new conservative spin is that Pelosi is (or at least is now going to be) a moderate, not a wild-eyed lefty anymore. This new attitude has been reflected in recent quotes and comments around here by, frinstance, [magellan01](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=7944594&postcount=22): and by [Evil](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=7946095&postcount=71)[One](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=7946457&postcount=89): [/QUOTE] I don’t think that’s a fair interpretation of what they were saying. It’s a legitmate question to ask if a politician is going to take a more moderate stance once she is in a poistion as Speaker of the House than she would as a representative from SF. I’m glad someone openned this thread, though, as I wanted to open a similar one myself. I really don’t know too much about her, but always assumed she was pretty far left of center (not that there’s anything worng with that), being from SF. I do understand, though, that a lot of the real lefties in SF don’t much care for her, and even the SF Chronicle didn’t endorse her in '04. So, what’s the scoop on Speaker Pelosi’s politics? Maybe we can have an intelligent discussion if we list her position on key issues rather than worrying about whether she’s a liberal or how much of a liberal she is. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2006, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-should-i-fear-speaker-pelosi/379949/10 "2006-11-10T23:49:23Z")
Don’t know how I’ll break the news to him. Is there X-Box in Heaven? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2006, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-should-i-fear-speaker-pelosi/379949/11 "2006-11-10T23:49:57Z")
Because she’s plotting to ram a Bush-Cheney simulpeachment through Congress, elevate herself to the presidency, seize absolute power and usher in the dictatorship of the pansexual tree-hugging smoke-a-bowletariat. Well, a guy can dream. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2006, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-should-i-fear-speaker-pelosi/379949/12 "2006-11-10T23:59:45Z")
Actually, she has been getting a lot of flak lately from her district for not being liberal _enough_. Her move towards the center has kinda pissed off the extreme elements of her constituency. I am looking forward to her Speakership. I disagree with most of her politics, but if she can hold the Center, we might just survive what the Republicans have wrought. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2006, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-should-i-fear-speaker-pelosi/379949/13 "2006-11-10T23:59:46Z")
> [@John Mace](#): > > I don’t think that’s a fair interpretation of what they were saying. It’s a legitmate question to ask if a politician is going to take a more moderate stance once she is in a poistion as Speaker of the House than she would as a representative from SF. Who was asking that question, though? AFAICT, **magellan** and **Evil One** were explicitly arguing that Pelosi as Speaker would probably be moderate, not simply asking whether she would become more moderate. > [@John Mace](#): > > So, what’s the scoop on Speaker Pelosi’s politics? Maybe we can have an intelligent discussion if we list her position on key issues rather than worrying about whether she’s a liberal or how much of a liberal she is. Well, the OP specifically started this thread partly to find out “how much of a liberal she is”, i.e., “how you would contrast her policies to Dems of varying stripes, like say Ted Kennedy, Jim Webb, and Hillary Clinton”. If you don’t think we can have an intelligent discussion about that, you’ll have to take it up with the OP. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2006, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-should-i-fear-speaker-pelosi/379949/14 "2006-11-11T00:02:23Z")
As usual, Wiki has a pretty good [summary](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nancy_Pelosi) of her positions. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2006, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-should-i-fear-speaker-pelosi/379949/15 "2006-11-11T00:13:00Z")
[QUOTE=Kimstu] Who was asking that question, though? AFAICT, **magellan** and **Evil One** were explicitly arguing that Pelosi as Speaker would probably be moderate, not simply asking whether she would become more moderate. [/quote] It’s still a legitimate thing to speculate about, which doesn’t make it a “conservative talking point” as you said. > [@](#): > > Well, the OP specifically started this thread partly to find out “how much of a liberal she is”, Where did you get that quote from? It wasn’t in the OP. > [@](#): > > i.e., “how you would contrast her policies to Dems of varying stripes, like say Ted Kennedy, Jim Webb, and Hillary Clinton”. That’s not the same thing as asking how liberal she is. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2006, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-should-i-fear-speaker-pelosi/379949/16 "2006-11-11T00:16:58Z")
Regarding the difference between Pelosi the politicain and Pelosi the House Leader, the [Chronicle](http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2002/11/13/MN134531.DTL) said this about her even back in 2002: > [@](#): > > Pelosi insists she is too much of a pragmatist to allow her personal liberal outlook to get in the way of developing a winning message for the national party. Since the Democrats’ election day losses in the House and Senate last week, Pelosi has maintained that the party must better define its differences with President Bush and the GOP if it is to be more successful in 2004. So I think there are really 2 different questions that need to be asked here: 1. What are Pelosi’s positions on the key issues of the day? 2. What will Pelosi’s agenda be as Speaker of the House, and how does that differ from #1 above. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Borgia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/larry_borgia/32/156_2.png) [@Larry\_Borgia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Borgia)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2006, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-should-i-fear-speaker-pelosi/379949/17 "2006-11-11T00:18:40Z")
My ultraleftist sister calls her an “AIPAC whore.” ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2006, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-should-i-fear-speaker-pelosi/379949/18 "2006-11-11T00:44:25Z")
> [@John Mace](#): > > It’s still a legitimate thing to speculate about, which doesn’t make it a “conservative talking point” as you said. Yes, it’s a legitimate thing to speculate about, certainly. IMO, though, it is **also** being used as a conservative talking point. Conservatives are emphasizing Pelosi’s new or newly-discovered or potential moderation as Speaker of the House (and hoping that their listeners will ignore earlier conservative squealing about how terrible it would be if a left-wing extremist like Pelosi ever got to be Speaker of the House) partly because it makes the conservative defeat look less bad. > [@John Mace](#): > > Where did you get that quote from? It wasn’t in the OP. No, **John** , it was in **the very part of your own post that I quoted just before posting that sentence**. (Never mind, we all get momentary “post blindness” from time to time.) > [@John Mace](#): > > > [@Kimstu](#): > > > > i.e., “how you would contrast her policies to Dems of varying stripes, like say Ted Kennedy, Jim Webb, and Hillary Clinton”. > > That’s not the same thing as asking how liberal she is. Not in so many words, perhaps, but isn’t it obvious that the OP is asking where Pelosi falls on the spectrum of more-liberal and less-liberal “Dems of varying stripes”? > [@John Mace](#): > > Regarding the difference between Pelosi the politicain and Pelosi the House Leader, the Chronicle said this about her even back in 2002: > > > [@](#): > > > > Pelosi insists she is too much of a pragmatist to allow her personal liberal outlook to get in the way of developing a winning message for the national party. Since the Democrats’ election day losses in the House and Senate last week, Pelosi has maintained that the party must better define its differences with President Bush and the GOP if it is to be more successful in 2004. How does that support your argument? After all, that “pragmatic winning message” that Pelosi was apparently working on between 2002 and 2006 is what a lot of conservatives have been screaming about as Pelosi’s catastrophically dangerous extremist leftism. At least, until last Tuesday. Your linked article in fact contains a stellar example of pre-Democratic-Congress conservative outrage about Pelosi’s extremism: > [@](#): > > [T]o read many accounts, it almost sounds as if the Democrats are naming a member of the Socialist Party as their leader. In fact, that’s exactly what a columnist in the Washington Times suggested Tuesday. > > Drawing a connection between the Democratic Socialists of America and the House Progressive Caucus (a group of 58 left-leaning lawmakers, which includes Pelosi and six other Bay Area Democrats), Balint Vazsonyi writes that Pelosi’s “election as minority leader would firmly establish the link between the Democratic Caucus of the U.S. House of Representatives and the Socialist International.” If Pelosi actually **is** what most conservatives would consider reasonably moderate and pragmatist, and if this has been noted in the media since back in 2002, that just makes the many conservatives who’ve been whining and wailing about her dangerous liberal extremism look like fools. Or liars. Or both. ---
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2006, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-should-i-fear-speaker-pelosi/379949/19 "2006-11-11T01:31:24Z")
I’ve become more and more convinced that the unthinking (not all by any stretch) members of the right need bogeymen (or bogeywomen in Pelosi’s case). And the Republican party is more than able to play on that by creating these bogeypeople (I’m nothing if not PC) to solidfy and energize their base, especially around election time. All Muslims, outspoken homosexuals, Hillary, and Pelosi are the latest forms of bogeypeople that the right wing nutjobs have grasped onto, with help by the Republican party. I suppose the Democrats are guilty of this kind of pandering also (the fear of citizens being held as enemy combatants without habeas protections), but I don’t see it as much. Perhaps it’s my own bias (or the Padilla case), though. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2006, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-should-i-fear-speaker-pelosi/379949/20 "2006-11-11T01:49:15Z")
[QUOTE=Kimstu] Yes, it’s a legitimate thing to speculate about, certainly. IMO, though, it is **also** being used as a conservative talking point. Conservatives are emphasizing Pelosi’s new or newly-discovered or potential moderation as Speaker of the House (and hoping that their listeners will ignore earlier conservative squealing about how terrible it would be if a left-wing extremist like Pelosi ever got to be Speaker of the House) partly because it makes the conservative defeat look less bad. No, **John** , it was in **the very part of your own post that I quoted just before posting that sentence**. (Never mind, we all get momentary “post blindness” from time to time.) Not in so many words, perhaps, but isn’t it obvious that the OP is asking where Pelosi falls on the spectrum of more-liberal and less-liberal “Dems of varying stripes”? [/quote] You seemed to have been implying that the quote came from the OP. But we can let the OP clarify what he wants when he comes back into the thread. > [@](#): > > How does that support your argument? After all, that “pragmatic winning message” that Pelosi was apparently working on between 2002 and 2006 is what a lot of conservatives have been screaming about as Pelosi’s catastrophically dangerous extremist leftism. At least, until last Tuesday. Which argument? It supports the fact that the idea needn’t be conservative spin because it’s what Pelosi said about herself. > [@](#): > > Your linked article in fact contains a stellar example of pre-Democratic-Congress conservative outrage about Pelosi’s extremism: > > If Pelosi actually **is** what most conservatives would consider reasonably moderate and pragmatist, and if this has been noted in the media since back in 2002, that just makes the many conservatives who’ve been whining and wailing about her dangerous liberal extremism look like fools. Or liars. Or both. So what? Just because some Republicans in Congress and some pundits try to demonize her doesn’t mean that the two posters you quoted were tryiing to spin something. I just think you unfairly mischaracterized what those posters were saying by dismissing it as conservative spin, especially in light of the fact that Pelosi said essentially the same thing. I don’t think your dragging those quotes back into this thread did anything to get at what the OP is asking about. Do you? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-should-i-fear-speaker-pelosi/379949.md?page=2)