# Why should "In God We Trust" be on our currency? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 2, 2013, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-should-in-god-we-trust-be-on-our-currency/654633 "2013-04-02T16:07:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2013, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-should-in-god-we-trust-be-on-our-currency/654633/101 "2013-04-02T20:23:46Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > You’re being unfairly confrontational; I, at least, am sharing my opinion on how I believe things are. > > Courts do make mistakes. Ceremonial Deism is still a violation of the First Amendment. The Supreme Court has said otherwise…and are wrong. And, yeah, that’s an opinion, but not an expression of a wish. > > Congress should also not have an official Chaplain. > > (And the transfer of the Soledad Mountain hilltop cross to private ownership, solely to preserve it as a religious symbol, was also unconstitutional. So it goes.) All right. I disagree. But that’s the nice thing about opinions. I still respect you, and cherish your contrary opinion as an example of the great strength of this country. ---
**Author:** ![Kinthalis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kinthalis/32/16084_2.png) [@Kinthalis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kinthalis)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2013, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-should-in-god-we-trust-be-on-our-currency/654633/102 "2013-04-02T20:27:47Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > I daresay there is no motto that would be universally accepted. This one, at least, excludes only a very small number even if its words are taken literally mean a monotheistic-themed religious deity. How about a motto that doesn’t exclude ANYONE Bricker? Wouldn’t that be much better? It’s possible E Pluribus Unum might not be universally LIKED, but it excludes no one. It says our strength as Americans lies precisely in our differences. Not only is In God We Trust, not universally liked, it explicitly excludes many Americans. Seems counter to the spirit of what makes America, America, or at least the ideal America, if not the reality. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2013, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-should-in-god-we-trust-be-on-our-currency/654633/103 "2013-04-02T20:28:07Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > I daresay there is no motto that would be universally accepted. This one, at least, excludes only a very small number even if its words are taken literally mean a monotheistic-themed religious deity. And if a not insignifcant portion of the population takes it to mean the Christian god, is the number of citizens excluded still too small to worry about? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2013, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-should-in-god-we-trust-be-on-our-currency/654633/104 "2013-04-02T20:32:13Z")
> [@Human\_Action](#): > > Again, taken in the context in which it was adopted in 1956, what primary purpose did establishing “In God We Trust” as motto have beyond advancing religion, specifically in contrast to irreligious Communist regimes? > > If the purpose was merely a motto that would serve to “suggest a unity of purpose and ideals”, why was the selected motto one that, as **tim314** notes, specifically excluded a segment of Americans? Bearing in mind that the de facto motto of the U.S. at the time was a secular one, and which excluded no American, the only reasonable conclusion is that the primary effect of selecting “In God We Trust” to replace it was to advance religion. I cherish you, too. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Hamster\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8edcca/32.png) [@The\_Hamster\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Hamster_King)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2013, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-should-in-god-we-trust-be-on-our-currency/654633/105 "2013-04-02T20:33:51Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Oh, so you’re just sharing your opinion of how you wish things were. Got it. Plessy v. Ferguson Brown v. Board of Education The Supreme Court does reverse itself from time to time, you know. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2013, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-should-in-god-we-trust-be-on-our-currency/654633/106 "2013-04-02T20:33:55Z")
> [@Kinthalis](#): > > How about a motto that doesn’t exclude ANYONE Bricker? Wouldn’t that be much better? > > It’s possible E Pluribus Unum might not be universally LIKED, but it excludes no one. It says our strength as Americans lies precisely in our differences. > > Not only is In God We Trust, not universally liked, it explicitly excludes many Americans. > > Seems counter to the spirit of what makes America, America, or at least the ideal America, if not the reality. Well, I don’t know if that would be MUCH better, but I’d allow it would be an improvement. Frankly, though, it seems such a small improvement that it’s not worth the cost. ETA: there are a non-zero number of folks who believe we should retain differences and resist the "one’ message of E Pluribus. So I don’t agree it excludes no one. ---
**Author:** ![ITR\_champion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c67d28/32.png) [@ITR\_champion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ITR_champion)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2013, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-should-in-god-we-trust-be-on-our-currency/654633/107 "2013-04-02T20:34:31Z")
> [@Kinthalis](#): > > It’s possible E Pluribus Unum might not be universally LIKED, but it excludes no one. How do you know that? If a person decides that they desire to be endlessly offended by minor things, he or she can claim to be excluded by “E Pluribus Unum” just as easily as by “In God We Trust”. Any Rand’s followers generally go berserk at any attempt to treat individuals as a group. “E Pluribus Unum” surely excludes them, doesn’t it? The point being, you can’t satisfy everybody. Atheists who have decided that they want to be offended and excluded by four tiny words on their money do not have any right or expectation to have the government remove those words than any other group has to control the government undemocratically. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2013, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-should-in-god-we-trust-be-on-our-currency/654633/108 "2013-04-02T20:35:08Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > And if a not insignifcant portion of the population takes it to mean the Christian god, is the number of citizens excluded still too small to worry about? Yes, because they are taking it in error; I don’t see why we should scurry around and adjust something because of an error in perception. ---
**Author:** ![Cyros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a698b9/32.png) [@Cyros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cyros)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2013, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-should-in-god-we-trust-be-on-our-currency/654633/109 "2013-04-02T20:39:15Z")
NM ---
**Author:** ![tim314](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tim314/32/3468_2.png) [@tim314](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tim314)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2013, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-should-in-god-we-trust-be-on-our-currency/654633/110 "2013-04-02T21:05:21Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > I daresay there is no motto that would be universally accepted. I don’t know, I think something like “Liberty and Justice for All” would be both more inclusive and more of an accurate representation of what America stands for. Don’t get me wrong, it would be hugely controversial to make that change at this point, but _only_ because it’d be replacing a reference to God. So we’d have people crying “war on religion” and all that. But if our money had said “Liberty and Justice for All” from day 1, I can’t imagine anyone having a problem with it. > [@](#): > > This one, at least, excludes only a very small number even if its words are taken literally mean a monotheistic-themed religious deity. If it excluded a small number _at random_ I’d be less bothered than I am by it excluding them _systematically_ based on their religion. Also, ceremonial or not, I can’t really see what else “God” could be taken to mean. At best, _maybe_ you could stretch it to mean “Whatever God or gods you believe in”, but that still excludes atheists. ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2013, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-should-in-god-we-trust-be-on-our-currency/654633/111 "2013-04-02T21:12:49Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Is there any reason why the phrase “In God We Trust” should be kept on our currency? If you would object to it’s removal, please tell me why. Because he is obviously a Divine Accountant. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2013, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-should-in-god-we-trust-be-on-our-currency/654633/112 "2013-04-02T21:15:27Z")
> [@Kearsen](#): > > Why don’t you either acknowledge you want it changed and then explain why you’d like it changed, or leave it be? I want it changed. I don’t like a constant reminder of my fellow citizens’ ignorance plastered all over my money. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2013, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-should-in-god-we-trust-be-on-our-currency/654633/113 "2013-04-02T22:05:25Z")
“Majority Rule” folks: Should the current trend toward a rational worldview continue and atheists exceed 51% of the population, are y’all cool with the changes that could take place? ---
**Author:** ![Cyros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a698b9/32.png) [@Cyros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cyros)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2013, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-should-in-god-we-trust-be-on-our-currency/654633/114 "2013-04-02T22:06:40Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Well, I don’t know if that would be MUCH better, but I’d allow it would be an improvement. > > Frankly, though, it seems such a small improvement that it’s not worth the cost. > > ETA: there are a non-zero number of folks who believe we should retain differences and resist the "one’ message of E Pluribus. So I don’t agree it excludes no one. May I ask what the cost would be? What price would be acceptable to increase the feeling of inclusion felt by 13 million atheists and agnostics (not to mention religions that worship a diety other than God).? ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2013, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-should-in-god-we-trust-be-on-our-currency/654633/115 "2013-04-02T22:11:59Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > “Majority Rule” folks: > Should the current trend toward a rational worldview continue and atheists exceed 51% of the population, are y’all cool with the changes that could take place? Of course not; that would be “Tyranny of the Majority”. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2013, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-should-in-god-we-trust-be-on-our-currency/654633/116 "2013-04-02T23:36:28Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > “Majority Rule” folks: > Should the current trend toward a rational worldview continue and atheists exceed 51% of the population, are y’all cool with the changes that could take place? I’m cool with it. Hell, when you can show me that we are talking about more than 1% of the population that’s annoyed about having ‘In God We Trust’ on the currency, then I’ll consider it seriously. Right now, it seems to be a minority view even among atheist/agnostics, or at least one that is pretty minor on the annoyance/we MUST do something scale. However, if enough people want to change it? Feel free. Same goes with gun control…you get enough Americans to vote for it then I’m good. Same with UHC. Same with…well, anything. That’s why we HAVE such a system, and why it was designed to change and shift as our societies changes and shifts. And, in actual fact, you don’t really need 51%…you just need more than a few percent of really loud whiners to get stuff through, or some sort of awareness of the general population that there is some sort of issue, and that they actually care about it enough to take notice and do something. Good luck with that on the ‘In God We Trust’ issue…and I mean that. I think there are other, more pressing issues, but what the hell…no skin off my nose if we change the currency AND the motto. Personally, I think our motto should be ‘Greed is Good’. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2013, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-should-in-god-we-trust-be-on-our-currency/654633/117 "2013-04-02T23:41:01Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > So, like the opening prayer in Congress and the phrase “One Nation Under God”, “In God We Trust” is just another of those silly little things atheists shouldn’t worry about because there are bigger fish to fry? So how _does_ one change our culture to one that more atheist-friendly of all of the aspects that reinforce a pro-religious viewpoint are off limits? > Or am I just being an arrogant atheist? First things first. I’d be happier if God were not referenced on official documents and money, etc. Separation of church and state and all that. Plus, it’s a lie. We trust in $, much like Ayn Rand. Second, to answer your question as to how one changes the culture to make it more atheist friendly? To make a friend, you have to be a friend. The leaders of your movement should not be obnoxious jerks. Not saying they are, but put forward people who are friendly as your leaders. Bill Maher and Woody Allen aren’t exactly warm and cuddly. And both of them spend way too much time wondering about whether God exists. For FSM’s sake, you guys are atheists, act like you really don’t believe there is a God. But still, be friendly about it. Jesse Ventura doesn’t count either. May I recommend Ashley Judd, as she seems available now that she isn’t running for KY Senate. I don’t know her religious affiliation, if any. Start an atheist caucus. Get an agenda together so that you can admit what is on it and deny that other things are on it. Such as, admit that you want to remove religion from government and have atheists not be subject to hatred for things that are on it. Forcing everyone to be atheists would be off the agenda, so you can be clear about that. Persuading people to be atheists can be a big deal for some, not so much for others, but where is it on the agenda/platform? ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2013, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-should-in-god-we-trust-be-on-our-currency/654633/118 "2013-04-03T01:23:20Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Is there any reason why the phrase “In God We Trust” should be kept on our currency? If you would object to it’s removal, please tell me why. I have no problems with the phrase on _some_ of our currency for pluralistic reasons. Putting it on _all_ of our currency smacks of “Shoving religion down your throat”, which is bad civics and bad theology. > [@Czarcasm](#): > > …“In God We Trust” is just another of those silly little things atheists shouldn’t worry about because there are bigger fish to fry? Pretty much, yeah. Believers will swing on this issue and I think the carried interest loophole is more important. > [@leftfield6](#): > > Product idea: Make a little self-inking stamp that says “All others pay cash” in a font size to fit nicely between the IGWT on paper currency and the bottom edge. I’d buy that. Cross out the T and you get “In God We rust”. Visit the Where’s George website and you will see that such actions are not strictly illegal. I support such legal activities. > [@Bricker](#): > > If I were a legislator, I would not vote in favor of changing the law, because I see no particular reason to do so. As a national motto, the phrase has “spiritual and psychological value” as well as an “inspirational quality.” It being valuable as is, I see no reason to change it. It shoves religions down our throats, which is bad theology. > [@Bricker](#): > > I daresay there is no motto that would be universally accepted. This one, at least, excludes only a very small number even if its words are taken literally mean a monotheistic-themed religious deity. ## I thought I’d look up this claim. I think it’s a fair one, but to elaborate, the 2007 Pew poll on religion measured 1.6% self-identified atheists, 2.4% self-identified agnostics, 5.8% secularly unaffiliated (whose stance on funny green pieces of paper is unclear) 0.6% Hindus, 0.7% Buddhists and 2.9% other. So that “Very small number” encompasses 1.6% at the low end and 14% at the high end. IMO the best estimate would be closer to the lower percentage. Past threads: [If USA is a secular country, how come “in God we trust” is written on its money?](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=650074) [What’s the argument that the Pledge and “In God We Trust” are Constitutionally okay?](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=555614) ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2013, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-should-in-god-we-trust-be-on-our-currency/654633/119 "2013-04-03T02:00:45Z")
> [@The\_Second\_Stone](#): > > The leaders of your movement should not be obnoxious jerks. There is no movement. Anyone who claims to be leading me is telling a lie. We are people who happen to share a single belief.🙂 ETA: Religious folk: is Fred Phelps your leader? Cause I think he’s a jerk. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2013, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-should-in-god-we-trust-be-on-our-currency/654633/120 "2013-04-03T02:03:23Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > There is no movement. Anyone who claims to be leading me is telling a lie. We are people who happen to share a single belief.🙂 Man, you have THAT right! :smack: Look at some of the debates we’ve had just on whether agnostics are (cowardly) atheists on this board in the past. Vicious. Trying to get atheists/agnostics to agree on anything is like herding cats…really independent and stubborn cats. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-should-in-god-we-trust-be-on-our-currency/654633.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-should-in-god-we-trust-be-on-our-currency/654633.md?page=7)