# Why should Santa be regarded differently than God? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 9, 2019, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-should-santa-be-regarded-differently-than-god/827442 "2019-01-09T02:20:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2019, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-should-santa-be-regarded-differently-than-god/827442/101 "2019-01-31T23:15:01Z")
> [@EscAlaMike](#): > > I’m referring to the greatest being that humans can possibly conceive of. You’re referring to me then? I’m touched! There’s absolutely nothing _philosophical_ that says God must be the ultimate source and standard of justice and righteousness - the ultimate being might instead be ultimate in its hatred of humanity. Philosophically speaking. In all seriousness, the philosophical ontological arguments say only one thing about god: that he’s awesome enough to exist. That’s it: the arguments assert that existing is more awesome than being imaginary, and thus conclude that the most awesome thing is out there is 1) gonna be called “God” for the sake of argument, and 2) it exists. Any leap from there to any “God” that, for example, gives the tiniest crap about humanity, is a wildly fallacious leap based on bait-and-switching on the arbitrarily assigned _name_. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2019, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-should-santa-be-regarded-differently-than-god/827442/102 "2019-01-31T23:42:42Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > This may be news to you, but for thousands of years an untold number of different humans have conceived of an untold number of different “ultimate beings”, which is why I asked you which one you were referring to How about we just say “the God referred to in the title to this thread.” ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2019, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-should-santa-be-regarded-differently-than-god/827442/103 "2019-01-31T23:47:19Z")
> [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > How about we just say “the God referred to in the title to this thread.” Has the OP ever stated which religious sect he belongs to? I forget. ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2019, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-should-santa-be-regarded-differently-than-god/827442/104 "2019-01-31T23:53:35Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Has the OP ever stated which religious sect he belongs to? I forget. Does it really matter? It’s some christian sect or another. All christian sects’ gods are ones that people are expected to believe without proof, and one where kids are told to believe it without proof while other folks might be inclined to tell the kids otherwise. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2019, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-should-santa-be-regarded-differently-than-god/827442/105 "2019-02-01T01:41:40Z")
> [@EscAlaMike](#): > > I’m referring to the greatest being that humans can possibly conceive of. > > It’s a philosophical principle, not necessarily a religious one, though it could certainly be both. The greatest being that I can conceive of has the capability of doing both evil and good, and the ability to be just and unjust. Certainly an omnipotent being must be able to do both. I also expect that you’d define justice by whatever God does, so that God was just in Job, which even God doesn’t claim. ---
**Author:** ![EscAlaMike](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/escalamike/32/4177_2.png) [@EscAlaMike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EscAlaMike)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2019, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-should-santa-be-regarded-differently-than-god/827442/106 "2019-02-01T02:14:33Z")
> [@begbert2](#): > > In all seriousness, the philosophical ontological arguments say only one thing about god: that he’s awesome enough to exist. That’s it: the arguments assert that existing is more awesome than being imaginary, and thus conclude that the most awesome thing is out there is 1) gonna be called “God” for the sake of argument, and 2) it exists. Any leap from there to any “God” that, for example, gives the tiniest crap about humanity, is a wildly fallacious leap based on bait-and-switching on the arbitrarily assigned _name_. Yes, but we have the person of Jesus who claimed to be the incarnation of God, and then backed up the claim by rising from the dead. We can know a lot about God through the life and teachings of Jesus and through the society that he established (the Church). ---
**Author:** ![EscAlaMike](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/escalamike/32/4177_2.png) [@EscAlaMike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EscAlaMike)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2019, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-should-santa-be-regarded-differently-than-god/827442/107 "2019-02-01T02:19:00Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > The greatest being that I can conceive of has the capability of doing both evil and good, and the ability to be just and unjust. Certainly an omnipotent being must be able to do both. > I also expect that you’d define justice by whatever God does, so that God was just in Job, which even God doesn’t claim. Okay, but surely if the greatest being were capable of evil/injustice, he would not act in that way, as it would be a defect. As for Job, I’m not sure it was intended to be taken as an historical event. It reads more like a parable. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2019, 4:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-should-santa-be-regarded-differently-than-god/827442/108 "2019-02-01T04:04:07Z")
> [@EscAlaMike](#): > > Yes, but we have the person of Jesus who claimed to be the incarnation of God, and then backed up the claim by rising from the dead. We can know a lot about God through the life and teachings of Jesus and through the society that he established (the Church). The “Church”. That would be the Roman Catholic Church, for all of you that belong to all those lower-case churches. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2019, 6:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-should-santa-be-regarded-differently-than-god/827442/109 "2019-02-01T06:48:12Z")
> [@EscAlaMike](#): > > Okay, but surely if the greatest being were capable of evil/injustice, he would not act in that way, as it would be a defect. Okay good, I just wanted to make it clear that God can do evil. Now, the claim that God never does evil - or lets evil happen - is contradicted by tons of evidence. I’m talking natural evil, I can argue against the free will argument for God permitting people to do evil, but natural evil is good enough. Surely God could have saved at least one baby drowned in various tsunamis, couldn’t he? > [@](#): > > As for Job, I’m not sure it was intended to be taken as an historical event. It reads more like a parable. Sure it is a story, but the point clearly is that if God lets bad things happen to you - or causes bad things happen to you - tough, because God is bigger than you are. Whoever wrote Job and whoever put it in the canon could not be thinking that God never lets evil happen. BTW, in the original version which has come down in my family for thousands of years, right after God makes his famous speech he breaks out in “I’m a Mean Green Mother from Outer Space.” ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2019, 1:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-should-santa-be-regarded-differently-than-god/827442/110 "2019-02-01T13:19:48Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > The “Church”. That would be the Roman Catholic Church, for all of you that belong to all those lower-case churches. Given what I know about **EscAlaMike** , that’s quite possibly what he means, but note that some people use capital-C “Church” to refer to all Christians. ([Cite](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_Church)) > [@Voyager](#): > > Surely God could have saved at least one baby drowned in various tsunamis, couldn’t he? How do you know he didn’t? It seems to me you’re demanding that God never let anyone (or at least, anyone under a certain age) die in a tsunami. If God saves some, you can always insist that God could have saved at least one of the ones God didn’t save. ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2019, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-should-santa-be-regarded-differently-than-god/827442/111 "2019-02-01T14:11:27Z")
I see the problem is that you are imposing your beliefs on a child, that is not your job. Santa is part of a childhood belief system, perfectly valid faith, as valid as yours and I’m including atheism in that. You discredit a child’s faith and you have discredited your own and yes including atheism and also have been a jerk about it as well. It’s respect, God allows you to believe as you will, and yes you can debate your beliefs with others peer to peer, but a child must be respected as a child and not debated adult to child but to do so the adult must take the position of a child in a play debate format at the level of the child (mainly fo them to ponder questions, not impose conclusions) So all and all there is no difference. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2019, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-should-santa-be-regarded-differently-than-god/827442/112 "2019-02-01T15:14:15Z")
> [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > Given what I know about **EscAlaMike** , that’s quite possibly what he means, but note that some people use capital-C “Church” to refer to all Christians. ([Cite](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_Church)) > > How do you know he didn’t? > > It seems to me you’re demanding that God never let anyone (or at least, anyone under a certain age) die in a tsunami. If God saves some, you can always insist that God could have saved at least one of the ones God didn’t save. Why would your god save only _some_ innocent children…and why is the number never any higher then the amount that would have been saved if he _didn’t_ supposedly intervene? ---
**Author:** ![Razncain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9d8465/32.png) [@Razncain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Razncain)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2019, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-should-santa-be-regarded-differently-than-god/827442/113 "2019-02-01T15:26:03Z")
> [@EscAlaMike](#): > > Yes, but we have the person of Jesus who claimed to be the incarnation of God, and then backed up the claim by rising from the dead. As any scribe could do, and has done with many figures. Voila! Like any great wine, it also helps to let it age. ---
**Author:** ![Razncain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9d8465/32.png) [@Razncain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Razncain)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2019, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-should-santa-be-regarded-differently-than-god/827442/114 "2019-02-01T15:31:20Z")
> [@EscAlaMike](#): > > As for Job, I’m not sure it was intended to be taken as an historical event. It reads more like a parable. Among the majority of rabbis, Job existed as an actual historical figure according to wiki. But I’m okay with pretty much the whole lot of biblical characters not being historical. Just don’t think that’s how many believers take it though, even today. Found the book of Job more entertaining than other books of the bible with the bet God has with Satan. There were many things interesting about that story, in particular the ending, instead of giving Job his old children back, he just replaces them and guess that placates Job. After all that he been through, he sure would’t have wanted to upset The Man all over again. Not that he was supposed to have done anything to him the first time. ---
**Author:** ![EscAlaMike](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/escalamike/32/4177_2.png) [@EscAlaMike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EscAlaMike)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2019, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-should-santa-be-regarded-differently-than-god/827442/115 "2019-02-01T15:34:18Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Why would your god save only _some_ innocent children…and why is the number never any higher then the amount that would have been saved if he _didn’t_ supposedly intervene? I think this misses the point. The natural world is dangerous. Did God put inherent danger into the makeup of the universe? I don’t know. But I do know that death is not natural. It’s a defect that we brought upon ourselves through pride/disobedience. We can’t possibly know how often God intervenes in saving human lives or if he does at all. But he’s not obligated to. We made the choice to be gods, and here we are. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2019, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-should-santa-be-regarded-differently-than-god/827442/116 "2019-02-01T15:41:14Z")
> [@EscAlaMike](#): > > I think this misses the point. > > The natural world is dangerous. Did God put inherent danger into the makeup of the universe? I don’t know. But I do know that death is not natural. It’s a defect that we brought upon ourselves through pride/disobedience. > > We can’t possibly know how often God intervenes in saving human lives or if he does at all. But he’s not obligated to. We made the choice to be gods, and here we are. I made no such choice. ---
**Author:** ![Razncain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9d8465/32.png) [@Razncain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Razncain)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2019, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-should-santa-be-regarded-differently-than-god/827442/117 "2019-02-01T15:43:16Z")
> [@EscAlaMike](#): > > We made the choice to be gods, and here we are. Somebody has to step up to the plate, since he’s not been located. ---
**Author:** ![EscAlaMike](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/escalamike/32/4177_2.png) [@EscAlaMike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EscAlaMike)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2019, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-should-santa-be-regarded-differently-than-god/827442/118 "2019-02-01T15:46:30Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > I made no such choice. = “I will not serve” ---
**Author:** ![Razncain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9d8465/32.png) [@Razncain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Razncain)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2019, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-should-santa-be-regarded-differently-than-god/827442/119 "2019-02-01T15:49:58Z")
> [@EscAlaMike](#): > > = “I will not serve” If serving god means taking order to kill fellow man as well as doing all sorts of disgusting deeds, I’ll pass. Did Joshua, Moses, others? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2019, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-should-santa-be-regarded-differently-than-god/827442/120 "2019-02-01T15:59:39Z")
> [@EscAlaMike](#): > > = “I will not serve” I don’t recall running for the position, and who nominated me in the first place? Does this have something to do with “Original Sin”? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-should-santa-be-regarded-differently-than-god/827442.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-should-santa-be-regarded-differently-than-god/827442.md?page=7)