# Why should we care if playing in the NFL has long time health problems? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 19, 2015, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-should-we-care-if-playing-in-the-nfl-has-long-time-health-problems/731726 "2015-09-19T02:36:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Robert163](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/4af34b/32.png) [@Robert163](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robert163)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2015, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-should-we-care-if-playing-in-the-nfl-has-long-time-health-problems/731726/21 "2015-09-19T03:46:55Z")
> [@IvoryTowerDenizen](#): > > They are given safety gear and the at it implication is they were being protected. What if you found out tomorrow that seat belts don’t really work? C’mon- hurtling down the road at 70 mph in a 1 ton box of steel with others hurtling around you and you thought you were safe? Look, I don’t often say it, but over this one very specific point, I would “agree to disagree”. I think football looks inherently violent. Someone should be able to tell that by watching it for about all of 5 minutes… ---
**Author:** ![Robert163](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/4af34b/32.png) [@Robert163](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robert163)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2015, 3:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-should-we-care-if-playing-in-the-nfl-has-long-time-health-problems/731726/22 "2015-09-19T03:48:13Z")
> [@IvoryTowerDenizen](#): > > Bottom line: we shoukd care because they are human beings and even if they made the choice themselves, how can you look at a life destroyed, shrug and say “oh, well”? We care because to not says way too much about the callousness and indifference of _us._ > > We get the world we make we our attitudes and actions. I’d rather that world be more empathetic and caring than not. This I can agree with ---
**Author:** ![Ambivalid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2015, 3:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-should-we-care-if-playing-in-the-nfl-has-long-time-health-problems/731726/23 "2015-09-19T03:56:38Z")
> [@Robert163](#): > > I think there is something primal/important about guys being able to watch violent sports. Hahaha! That’s funny! And _so_ stupid. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Oredigger77](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/oredigger77/32/3181_2.png) [@Oredigger77](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oredigger77)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2015, 3:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-should-we-care-if-playing-in-the-nfl-has-long-time-health-problems/731726/24 "2015-09-19T03:58:10Z")
> [@Robert163](#): > > What about my analysis of the all star game and how boring it is? Have you watched a recent all star game… Nope the All star game sucks I haven’t watched it in years. It sucks because the players don’t care about the outcome of the game the same as the baseball all star game. Sure players don’t want to get hurt but they don’t want to get hurt in the NFC championship game either. The NFL doesn’t have guaranteed contracts so if you’re not a star an injury can spell the end of your career so players never want to get hurt. The difference is if you go back into the All star game with aa concussion you get nothing if you go back in the AFC championship then you may go to the super bowl. What the new rules are about are trying to keep that player from getting a concussion so they don’t have to make that decision. As long as players are trying the actual game isn’t going to turn into the All star game but there has got to be a middle ground so we can lower the players risk as much as possible while still keeping the game entertaining. ---
**Author:** ![Robert163](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/4af34b/32.png) [@Robert163](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robert163)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2015, 4:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-should-we-care-if-playing-in-the-nfl-has-long-time-health-problems/731726/25 "2015-09-19T04:01:52Z")
> [@Oredigger77](#): > > Nope the All star game sucks I haven’t watched it in years. It sucks because the players don’t care about the outcome of the game the same as the baseball all star game. Sure players don’t want to get hurt but they don’t want to get hurt in the NFC championship game either. The NFL doesn’t have guaranteed contracts so if you’re not a star an injury can spell the end of your career so players never want to get hurt. The difference is if you go back into the All star game with aa concussion you get nothing if you go back in the AFC championship then you may go to the super bowl. > > What the new rules are about are trying to keep that player from getting a concussion so they don’t have to make that decision. As long as players are trying the actual game isn’t going to turn into the All star game but there has got to be a middle ground so we can lower the players risk as much as possible while still keeping the game entertaining. ok, but how do you do that when the sport is so physical? ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2015, 4:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-should-we-care-if-playing-in-the-nfl-has-long-time-health-problems/731726/26 "2015-09-19T04:14:11Z")
> [@Robert163](#): > > Look, I don’t often say it, but over this one very specific point, I would “agree to disagree”. I think football looks inherently violent. Someone should be able to tell that by watching it for about all of 5 minutes… It’s not about what we think, it’s about the guys were led to beleive. They were taught to trust their parents, coaches, and their trainers. They were told to wear this equipment and it’s ok if you get knocked around. Sure, they knew they could bust a knee or even get a spinal chord injury, but debilitating, life long dementia? It’s not fair to say they should’ve known. Listen, I say this all as a life long Bills fan. I love football, but I can look back and see how these guys have been screwed over. ---
**Author:** ![Robert163](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/4af34b/32.png) [@Robert163](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robert163)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2015, 4:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-should-we-care-if-playing-in-the-nfl-has-long-time-health-problems/731726/27 "2015-09-19T04:16:03Z")
> [@IvoryTowerDenizen](#): > > It’s not about what we think, it’s about the guys were led to beleive. They were taught to trust their parents, coaches, and their trainers. They were told to wear this equipment and it’s ok if you get knocked around. Sure, they knew they could bust a knee or even get a spinal chord injury, but debilitating, life long dementia? It’s not fair to say they should’ve known. > > Listen, I say this all as a life long Bills fan. I love football, but I can look back and see how these guys have been screwed over. yeah, I think I can agree with that, expecting knee trouble is not the same as having coaches and trainers and doctors lie to you about brain injury… ---
**Author:** ![Oredigger77](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/oredigger77/32/3181_2.png) [@Oredigger77](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oredigger77)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2015, 4:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-should-we-care-if-playing-in-the-nfl-has-long-time-health-problems/731726/28 "2015-09-19T04:42:09Z")
> [@Robert163](#): > > ok, but how do you do that when the sport is so physical? So far the answer seems to be try to prevent hits to the head, if people have concussions protect them from getting a second one too soon and I think better helmets will make a big difference. At this point I think the real answer is more medical studies into causes and effective forms of prevention. Long term I think the game will look different but I think that most of that will be driven by the offensive focus of the game rather than player protection. ---
**Author:** ![naita](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naita/32/5862_2.png) [@naita](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/naita)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2015, 7:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-should-we-care-if-playing-in-the-nfl-has-long-time-health-problems/731726/29 "2015-09-19T07:10:22Z")
There’s also the issue of US sports being so closely linked to the education system. Is encouraging some of the students to cripple each other in exchange for an education they’re hoping not to need because they think they’ll be picked for a career in crippling each other an ethical way of financing a college? [SMBC - headbrick](http://www.smbc-comics.com/index.php?id=2778) ---
**Author:** ![Robert163](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/4af34b/32.png) [@Robert163](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robert163)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2015, 7:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-should-we-care-if-playing-in-the-nfl-has-long-time-health-problems/731726/30 "2015-09-19T07:13:18Z")
> [@naita](#): > > There’s also the issue of US sports being so closely linked to the education system. Is encouraging some of the students to cripple each other in exchange for an education they’re hoping not to need because they think they’ll be picked for a career in crippling each other an ethical way of financing a college? > > [SMBC - headbrick](http://www.smbc-comics.com/index.php?id=2778) Yeah, that was a major point of criticism on Reddit, where I first say the Article Ilinked too. ---
**Author:** ![davida03801](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b5e925/32.png) [@davida03801](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davida03801)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2015, 11:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-should-we-care-if-playing-in-the-nfl-has-long-time-health-problems/731726/31 "2015-09-19T11:37:44Z")
Because many folks can’t help themselves and love to stick their nose into others peoples business and tell everyone else what they can or can not do and how to do it. I have also noted such folks are generally of the do as I say, not as I do variety. As for me if players in football n the NFL wish to abuse their bodies for the glory they can. Go for it guys. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2015, 12:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-should-we-care-if-playing-in-the-nfl-has-long-time-health-problems/731726/32 "2015-09-19T12:02:03Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > There are a lot of men who don’t care for American football. Like, most of the men on this planet. > > Why not rugby? Or hockey? Or create an entirely new sport, where guys compete to bust each other in their kneecaps while leaving their brains alone. > > Making an appeal to nature is a lousy cop-out. There are a lot of ways to get your violence fix that doesn’t involve men literally losing their minds. Dunno about hockey or rugby, but soccer also has a significant problem with head injuries (probably from impacts between the ball and heads.) ---
**Author:** ![marshmallow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@marshmallow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/marshmallow)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2015, 12:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-should-we-care-if-playing-in-the-nfl-has-long-time-health-problems/731726/33 "2015-09-19T12:11:34Z")
Liberal killjoys ruin everything, don’t they? These were the same people complaining it’s “wrong” to use slaves and criminals in glorious gladiatorial combat. > [@Ambivalid](#): > > Hahaha! That’s funny! And _so_ stupid. 😃 Look at the violent shit men lap up in movies, books, TV shows, and video games. They can’t get enough of war, torture, and death. They even like violent porn. Dudes definitely have a screw loose. . ---
**Author:** ![Napier](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ce73a5/32.png) [@Napier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Napier)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2015, 12:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-should-we-care-if-playing-in-the-nfl-has-long-time-health-problems/731726/34 "2015-09-19T12:43:26Z")
> [@Robert163](#): > > IDK… look, maybe it is bad to say but I think there is something primal/important about guys being able to watch violent sports. Perhaps (honestly) that is the wrong view for me to have or grossly inaccurate in some other way. I promise I am not trying to be rude but I am not sure if a female can fully appreciate that. I also know that sounds bad so I apologize for saying that. Guy checking in here. In fact, a middle-aged white straight cis American guy. Football and other aggressive sports appear to be made for the entertainment of my demographic. I hate this supposed primal need I’m supposed to have for seeing people damage each other. To me it looks like a bill of goods I’m being sold, and there’s a dangerous amount of money helping motivate it. Plus, I’m supposed to get drunk while consuming this, so I’m supposed to have even less perceptiveness and good judgement than normal. I’m not sure whether there are innate gender differences motivating men to consume violent entertainment, but there are certainly socializing influences trying to do it, and people trying to get rich off of it too. I disapprove. ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2015, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-should-we-care-if-playing-in-the-nfl-has-long-time-health-problems/731726/35 "2015-09-19T14:54:23Z")
> [@davida03801](#): > > Because many folks can’t help themselves and love to stick their nose into others peoples business and tell everyone else what they can or can not do and how to do it. > > I have also noted such folks are generally of the do as I say, not as I do variety. > > As for me if players in football n the NFL wish to abuse their bodies for the glory they can. Go for it guys. Informed consent. If they were being withheld the facts and being lied to about the risks, they weren’t really making that choice, were they? ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2015, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-should-we-care-if-playing-in-the-nfl-has-long-time-health-problems/731726/36 "2015-09-19T15:19:49Z")
> [@Robert163](#): > > I think you are probably right. I’m sure that if I examined a very violent sport from some other culture/country that I wasn’t already biased too or predisposed for, I’d agree with you very quickly. American football certainly does not do anything that is actually beneficial for our society. This is ridiculous. It is a huge business that provides tens of thousands of jobs and entertians tens of millions of people. That’s not to mention all of the side businesses like bars and restaurants that show the game and the money it brings to them. If football went away tomorrow, it wouldn’t make much of a difference in my life but to say that there is no benefit to society is short sighted to the extreme. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2015, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-should-we-care-if-playing-in-the-nfl-has-long-time-health-problems/731726/37 "2015-09-19T15:21:04Z")
> [@IvoryTowerDenizen](#): > > Informed consent. If they were being withheld the facts and being lied to about the risks, they weren’t really making that choice, were they? Is this the case? Is it really like the tobacco industry where data was being willfully withheld? ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2015, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-should-we-care-if-playing-in-the-nfl-has-long-time-health-problems/731726/38 "2015-09-19T15:30:56Z")
> [@hajario](#): > > Is this the case? Is it really like the tobacco industry where data was being willfully withheld? That was exactly the basis of the players lawsuit- that the NFL withheld the information. [http://www.cnn.com/2011/HEALTH/07/20/nfl.lawsuit.concussions/](http://www.cnn.com/2011/HEALTH/07/20/nfl.lawsuit.concussions/) “For decades, defendants have known that multiple blows to the head can lead to long-term brain injury, including memory loss, dementia, depression and (chronic traumatic encephalopathy) and its related symptoms,” says the 86-page lawsuit, filed in Los Angeles County Superior Court on Tuesday. “This action arises from the defendants’ failure to warn and protect NFL players such as plaintiffs against the long-term brain injury risks associated with football-related concussions. This action arises because the NFL defendants committed negligence by failing to exercise its duty to enact league-wide guidelines and mandatory rules regulating post-concussion medical treatment and return-to-play standards for players who suffer a concussion and/or multiple concussions.” ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2015, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-should-we-care-if-playing-in-the-nfl-has-long-time-health-problems/731726/39 "2015-09-19T15:38:51Z")
So say the lawyers. The tobacco companies conducted their own research and withheld it when the results were bad for them. It looks like the NFL, at worst, reviewed data that was out there for anyone to see and came up with a bad conclusion. Would anyone else have come up with the same conclusion based on the existing research in 1994? ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2015, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-should-we-care-if-playing-in-the-nfl-has-long-time-health-problems/731726/40 "2015-09-19T15:52:27Z")
> [@hajario](#): > > So say the lawyers. > > The tobacco companies conducted their own research and withheld it when the results were bad for them. It looks like the NFL, at worst, reviewed data that was out there for anyone to see and came up with a bad conclusion. Would anyone else have come up with the same conclusion based on the existing research in 1994? You may find this informative: [http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/sports/league-of-denial/timeline-the-nfls-concussion-crisis/](http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/sports/league-of-denial/timeline-the-nfls-concussion-crisis/) According to the NFL they had been closely studying the issue and were regularly putting out statements of their positions. The link is a timeline with the state of scientific research on one side and the NFLs statements and positions on the other. The NFL weren’t casual observers- the players were their livelihood. They may not have been conducting a lot of research directly but there is no reason to believe they weren’t being informed about the current state of research when it came to their biggest commodity- their players. Look at March 1997 (on the science side) and October, Dec 1999 and May, Sept 2000 on the NFL side. Note, the NFL settled that lawsuit and is paying out multimillion dollar settlements to pay for lifelong medical treatment. While not a direct admission guilt, it’s a compelling response. Nov 2004 is particularly compelling: (MTBI was formed by the NFL to research into concussions etc) "The MTBI committee’s fifth paper in Neurosurgery stirs controversy. It suggests that NFL players have evolved to a state where their brains are less susceptible to injury: “One of the other processes that may account for some of these differences between NFL players and the general population might be deemed to be a type of artificial selection. Most NFL players have been involved with organized football since junior or senior high school and on through college. It is well known that MTBIs occur at all these levels of the sport. For whatever reasons, certain individuals undoubtedly are more prone to MTBI than others. Some individuals are more prone to delayed or poor recovery after MTBI. These groups may overlap. It is likely that many of these individuals will stop playing organized football before reaching the professional level. They are ‘selected out’ either of their own volition or because their head injuries prevent them from continuing to participate in the sport. As a result of this winnowing process, those players who ultimately play in the NFL are probably less susceptible to MTBI and prolonged post-concussion syndrome than the general population.”" [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-should-we-care-if-playing-in-the-nfl-has-long-time-health-problems/731726.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-should-we-care-if-playing-in-the-nfl-has-long-time-health-problems/731726.md?page=3)