# Why should we care if playing in the NFL has long time health problems? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 19, 2015, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-should-we-care-if-playing-in-the-nfl-has-long-time-health-problems/731726 "2015-09-19T02:36:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2015, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-should-we-care-if-playing-in-the-nfl-has-long-time-health-problems/731726/41 "2015-09-19T17:59:21Z")
> [@IvoryTowerDenizen](#): > > Part of the issue, for me at least, is informed consent. When many of these guys started playing little was known about the long term prognosis of repeated hits and what was known was minimized. These guys made decision that may end up profoundly ruining their lives based on false info. Often poor kids with limited prospects are promised college and a career only to end up disabled and unemployable. > > As a society we owe it to them to, at the very least, be truthful about the risks so they can make the best choices they can, and to minimize avoidable risks while they work for our entertainment. ^ This. A better analogy than coal mining might be boxing, which is another violent sport. While there is safety gear mandated for boxing, and rules, absolutely no one goes into that sport without being informed that there is a real risk of brain damage, shortened life, disability, and death. The risks are pretty well understood. Those participating are fully informed. Football, on the other hand, up until very recently (meaning, the current crop of adults and/or their parents didn’t know all the facts when they started) did not fully realize the extent of the risks. We have recently learned that not only are blown knees and screwed up shoulders pretty common, so is brain damage. You got a bunch of guys who consented to one level of risk and wound up with a different level of risk. That’s why we should care - society’s ignorance meant they weren’t fully informed of the risks of what they were doing. Going forward, with a better idea of what the real risks are, we can either improve the safety gear/rules, change the game, or decide to do without. Either way, those who suffer disability or death for some societal benefit (such as entertainment) should receive some sort of just care and compensation. ---
**Author:** ![Ambivalid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2015, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-should-we-care-if-playing-in-the-nfl-has-long-time-health-problems/731726/42 "2015-09-19T18:18:18Z")
> [@marshmallow](#): > > Liberal killjoys ruin everything, don’t they? These were the same people complaining it’s “wrong” to use slaves and criminals in glorious gladiatorial combat. > > Look at the violent shit men lap up in movies, books, TV shows, and video games. They can’t get enough of war, torture, and death. They even like violent porn. Dudes definitely have a screw loose. > . OK, but this is not a “primal” urge, it’s a cultural one. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2015, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-should-we-care-if-playing-in-the-nfl-has-long-time-health-problems/731726/43 "2015-09-19T18:33:01Z")
> [@Robert163](#): > > I promise I am not trying to be rude but I am not sure if a female can fully appreciate that. I also know that sounds bad so I apologize for saying that. That doesn’t just “sound bad”. It sounds incredibly fucking stupid. It IS fucking stupid. > [@puzzlegal](#): > > Dunno about hockey or rugby, but soccer also has a significant problem with head injuries (probably from impacts between the ball and heads.) Concussions are a huge issue in the NHL today. A few years ago, three players died within a short span of each other – two were suicides, and one was an accidental overdose. All had histories of multiple head injuries, and all were found to have been suffering from CTE after their deaths. I love hockey, (and I don’t want to see the fighting taken out of it) and I like watching football too (well, at least when my Steelers are playing). But the idea that “well, it’s a violent game and they know what they’re getting into”, well, if something isn’t done, the sports won’t even BE there anymore. Ken Dryden wrote a series of articles about this. Here’s the [best one](http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sports/hockey/ken-dryden-on-hockey-violence-how-could-we-be-so-stupid/article1939428/singlepage/#articlecontent), I think. ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2015, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-should-we-care-if-playing-in-the-nfl-has-long-time-health-problems/731726/44 "2015-09-19T19:09:50Z")
> [@Robert163](#): > > Good point. I agree, well I sort of agree the sport was misrepresented, but part of me also says “come on!!! really??? you didn’t think doing _that_ would have long term consequences???!!!???” I started playing football in the late 80s. We were all aware of the risks of relatively minor injuries like sprains, broken bones, and concussions and that there was a small risk of catastrophic injuries like broken necks that could leave us physically impaired for the rest of our lives or dead. We were completely unaware that there was any risk of brain damage outside of receiving one or more concussions. We had no idea that the simple act of blocking and tackling over the course of so many years on the field could result in brain damage. Usually when you tackle someone everyone immediately gets up and gets ready for the next play. You don’t feel as though you’ve done any damage to yourself at all. And it’s not just American football players that are suffering from this kind of brain damage. Doctors are looking into soccer players who frequently hit the ball with their head. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2015, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-should-we-care-if-playing-in-the-nfl-has-long-time-health-problems/731726/45 "2015-09-20T02:32:06Z")
> [@ZipperJJ](#): > > Wow. You want men to bash their brains in for your amusement and women to go through childbirth from unplanned pregnancy for your sense of morality. A stand-up kind of guy. There is no need for and no point in personal sniping in this thread. Knock it off. [/Moderating] ---
**Author:** ![Robert163](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/4af34b/32.png) [@Robert163](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robert163)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2015, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-should-we-care-if-playing-in-the-nfl-has-long-time-health-problems/731726/46 "2015-09-20T02:58:24Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > ^ This. > > A better analogy than coal mining might be boxing, which is another violent sport. While there is safety gear mandated for boxing, and rules, absolutely no one goes into that sport without being informed that there is a real risk of brain damage, shortened life, disability, and death. The risks are pretty well understood. Those participating are fully informed. > > Football, on the other hand, up until very recently (meaning, the current crop of adults and/or their parents didn’t know all the facts when they started) did not fully realize the extent of the risks. We have recently learned that not only are blown knees and screwed up shoulders pretty common, so is brain damage. You got a bunch of guys who consented to one level of risk and wound up with a different level of risk. That’s why we should care - society’s ignorance meant they weren’t fully informed of the risks of what they were doing. > > Going forward, with a better idea of what the real risks are, we can either improve the safety gear/rules, change the game, or decide to do without. Either way, those who suffer disability or death for some societal benefit (such as entertainment) should receive some sort of just care and compensation. > [@Odesio](#): > > I started playing football in the late 80s. We were all aware of the risks of relatively minor injuries like sprains, broken bones, and concussions and that there was a small risk of catastrophic injuries like broken necks that could leave us physically impaired for the rest of our lives or dead. We were completely unaware that there was any risk of brain damage outside of receiving one or more concussions. We had no idea that the simple act of blocking and tackling over the course of so many years on the field could result in brain damage. Usually when you tackle someone everyone immediately gets up and gets ready for the next play. You don’t feel as though you’ve done any damage to yourself at all. > > And it’s not just American football players that are suffering from this kind of brain damage. Doctors are looking into soccer players who frequently hit the ball with their head. Yeah, see, being a (ameture) boxer I kind of assumed all athletes knew about concussions. I find it kind of hard to believe a football player wouldn’t. But I never played football, only one year in middle school. I kind of allways heard about football coaches lying to players… I’m shocked and saddened to find out that it is true. ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2015, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-should-we-care-if-playing-in-the-nfl-has-long-time-health-problems/731726/47 "2015-09-20T03:02:44Z")
It’s not the big hits they weren’t away of. It’s the cumulative effect of all the little hits to the head and body (that cause your head to snap back) that lead to dementia and other problems that wasn’t well understood. ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2015, 10:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-should-we-care-if-playing-in-the-nfl-has-long-time-health-problems/731726/48 "2015-09-20T10:03:10Z")
By god that article is terrifying. They found evidence of permanent brain damage in 79% of ALL football players, including in people playing at the high school level. ---
**Author:** ![Robert163](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/4af34b/32.png) [@Robert163](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robert163)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2015, 10:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-should-we-care-if-playing-in-the-nfl-has-long-time-health-problems/731726/49 "2015-09-20T10:07:55Z")
> [@even\_sven](#): > > By god that article is terrifying. They found evidence of permanent brain damage in 79% of ALL football players, including in people playing at the high school level. Yeah, I’ve come to the conclusion we do need to care. Not trying to be rude to you, not trying to take away anything that you are saying, I just wanted to update on my own thoughts on the topic. I agree with you, it is terrifying. what helped me change my mind was imagination and empathy. Imagining if my Dad or Brother or Best Friend had brain damage from playing football. I’d probably have very very little sympathy or respect for the sport if that happened… ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2015, 1:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-should-we-care-if-playing-in-the-nfl-has-long-time-health-problems/731726/50 "2015-09-20T13:02:15Z")
> [@hajario](#): > > If football went away tomorrow, it wouldn’t make much of a difference in my life but to say that there is no benefit to society is short sighted to the extreme. But the benefits (entertainment) are not directly related to the possibility of brain injury. They are an unintended, and theoretically avoidable side effect of the way the business is run. Take oil drilling or logging. It’s a dangerous job, but the dangers are inherent to tapping into the supply of natural resource. There are entertainment alternatives that do not cause brain damage to the performers. If there was a reasonable, effective, alternative to oil or wood one could argue that those industries should adjust to make the work safer for employees. ---
**Author:** ![pullin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c57346/32.png) [@pullin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pullin)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2015, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-should-we-care-if-playing-in-the-nfl-has-long-time-health-problems/731726/51 "2015-09-20T15:24:39Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > Hopefully, this study and others will convince mothers everywhere to not let their boys play football at any level. The sport will die and we will all be better off. I agree with you personally, as I’ve never liked watching guys in matching outfits playing with a ball. The demise of football would have no effect on me. I discouraged it to the point my son quit football and joined the band (please note my location to appreciate the heretical nature of this). But I’ve actually wondered what happens if the sport _were_ to die out or change suddenly. School districts are notoriously lawsuit-averse. It seems that one spectacular civil award would cause the dominoes to fall quickly. I can imagine such a scenario causing skyrocketing insurance rates for school districts with football programs. It’s probably unlikely, but what happens after that? Does high school football change its rules to prohibit tackling? Would people be as interested in touch football on Friday nights? Even if the NFL doesn’t change, wouldn’t the effect on the player pipeline be drastic? Maybe I’m completely off base, and intramural football is in no danger. But it seems it will be difficult to continue it as the long-term injury evidence piles up. ---
**Author:** ![canned\_mayhem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/53a042/32.png) [@canned\_mayhem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/canned_mayhem)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2015, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-should-we-care-if-playing-in-the-nfl-has-long-time-health-problems/731726/52 "2015-09-20T16:12:18Z")
We should all care because there are millions of latte liberals out there who feel threatened by the slightest bit of competitive aggression. We should feel sorry for those poor innocent boys who chose to compete in a sport that made them stronger and more confident and maybe scored them some vagina on occasion. How dare people make their own choices and live their own lives without first consulting every little fragile individual on the internet who’s deathly afraid of sweat. Remember, we liberals are the most tolerant group on the planet. Now let’s ban and regulate everything that we don’t agree with!!!11111 ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2015, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-should-we-care-if-playing-in-the-nfl-has-long-time-health-problems/731726/53 "2015-09-20T16:40:09Z")
Ta-Nehisi Coates is a journalist and blogger for the Atlantic who is not only one of the most respected black writers and bloggers on African-American issues, but one of the most respected writers, journalists, and educators out there, period. This is a short piece he wrote that is pertinent to the subject: > **[What I've Learned in 2 Years of Boycotting the NFL](https://www.theatlantic.com/entertainment/archive/2014/09/boycotting-the-nfl-pro-football-and-the-sanctity-of-the-body/380275/)** > > Nonchalance about injuries is magical thinking. He’s written a lot more about the subject if anyone wants to Google for it, but that short piece and some of the links from it pretty much says it all. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2015, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-should-we-care-if-playing-in-the-nfl-has-long-time-health-problems/731726/54 "2015-09-20T17:21:15Z")
> [@canned\_mayhem](#): > > We should all care because there are millions of latte liberals out there who feel threatened by the slightest bit of competitive aggression. We should feel sorry for those poor innocent boys who chose to compete in a sport that made them stronger and more confident and maybe scored them some vagina on occasion. How dare people make their own choices and live their own lives without first consulting every little fragile individual on the internet who’s deathly afraid of sweat. > > Remember, we liberals are the most tolerant group on the planet. Now let’s ban and regulate everything that we don’t agree with!!!11111 Who said anything about banning football? :rolleyes: Terry Bradshaw himself said that if he had a son, he would not let him play, however. That should tell something. I’m a liberal, and I love sports. But this isn’t going to make people “stronger, and more confident.” On the contrary, most of them will end up weaker and less confident, as they start suffering from short term memory loss and serious personality changes. Ask Mike Webster. Oh wait, you can’t. And what about a lot of promising athletes who’ve ended up retiring early due to multiple concussions? Eric Lindros was supposed to be the next Wayne Gretzky. Unfortunately, we’ll never know if that would’ve happened or not. We almost lost Sidney Crosby a few years ago (thank god he recovered!). Do you really want that to happen? It’s “liberals” talking about this – most of the people are current and former athletes who have a major stake in this whole thing. I’d suggest you listen to them first. :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2015, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-should-we-care-if-playing-in-the-nfl-has-long-time-health-problems/731726/55 "2015-09-20T17:23:31Z")
> [@canned\_mayhem](#): > > We should all care because there are millions of latte liberals out there who feel threatened by the slightest bit of competitive aggression. We should feel sorry for those poor innocent boys who chose to compete in a sport that made them stronger and more confident and maybe scored them some vagina on occasion. How dare people make their own choices and live their own lives without first consulting every little fragile individual on the internet who’s deathly afraid of sweat. > > Remember, we liberals are the most tolerant group on the planet. Now let’s ban and regulate everything that we don’t agree with!!!11111 Goodness, what a compelling argument. Hats off to you, sir. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2015, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-should-we-care-if-playing-in-the-nfl-has-long-time-health-problems/731726/56 "2015-09-20T18:07:21Z")
> [@canned\_mayhem](#): > > We should all care because there are millions of latte liberals out there who feel threatened by the slightest bit of competitive aggression. We should feel sorry for those poor innocent boys who chose to compete in a sport that made them stronger and more confident and maybe scored them some vagina on occasion. How dare people make their own choices and live their own lives without first consulting every little fragile individual on the internet who’s deathly afraid of sweat. > > Remember, we liberals are the most tolerant group on the planet. Now let’s ban and regulate everything that we don’t agree with!!!11111 Would you like to participate in this thread? Or would you prefer that I move this post to The BBQ Pit as the OP of a new rant? At best, this is nothing but an _ad hominem_ attack on other posters and it provides nothing in terms of the discussion. [/Moderating] ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2015, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-should-we-care-if-playing-in-the-nfl-has-long-time-health-problems/731726/57 "2015-09-20T19:27:42Z")
> [@Robert163](#): > > Yeah, see, being a (ameture) boxer I kind of assumed all athletes knew about concussions. I find it kind of hard to believe a football player wouldn’t. But I never played football, only one year in middle school. I kind of allways heard about football coaches lying to players… I’m shocked and saddened to find out that it is true. Well, yes, I thought I made it very clear in my post that we were all aware of concussions. What we weren’t aware of is that brain damage could result from non-concussive injuries or activities. I don’t believe the coaches I had in middle or high school were aware of these risks either. That you could go through your entire football career without sustaining a single concussion and still end up with brain damage was something we weren’t aware of. ---
**Author:** ![canned\_mayhem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/53a042/32.png) [@canned\_mayhem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/canned_mayhem)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2015, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-should-we-care-if-playing-in-the-nfl-has-long-time-health-problems/731726/58 "2015-09-20T19:38:02Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > Would you like to participate in this thread? Or would you prefer that I move this post to The BBQ Pit as the OP of a new rant? > > At best, this is nothing but an _ad hominem_ attack on other posters and it provides nothing in terms of the discussion. > > [/Moderating] My bad, I’ll dial it back a bit. I just don’t see the point in feeling sorry for people who freely make decisions to do what they want to do. Next we’ll be complaining about volunteer firefighters having to put up with those pesky fires… Seriously though, sorry for attempting to divert the topic. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2015, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-should-we-care-if-playing-in-the-nfl-has-long-time-health-problems/731726/59 "2015-09-20T20:40:16Z")
> [@canned\_mayhem](#): > > I just don’t see the point in feeling sorry for people who freely make decisions to do what they want to do. Freedom of choice is worthless if you don’t have accurate information. The people who freely chose to play football didn’t freely choose dementia, because they had no idea it was a natural consequence of playing the sport. ---
**Author:** ![canned\_mayhem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/53a042/32.png) [@canned\_mayhem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/canned_mayhem)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2015, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-should-we-care-if-playing-in-the-nfl-has-long-time-health-problems/731726/60 "2015-09-20T21:34:59Z")
> [@Cheesesteak](#): > > Freedom of choice is worthless if you don’t have accurate information. > > The people who freely chose to play football didn’t freely choose dementia, because they had no idea it was a natural consequence of playing the sport. But now that the cat’s out of the bag and everyone can pretty much agree that throwing yourself head first into other people may have a negative affect on your health one day we should see a mass exodus from football right? I’m not gonna hold my breath on that one. Almost every interview I watch concerning old players and new players where they are asked how the game has changed they always seem to complain how the game has gotten softer. Funny how the media and the internet is full of concerned individuals who’ve never played a single down that think the athletes are victims somehow while the athletes themselves love the game and wish they dialed the crybaby rules back. Maybe they need the nerfed rules now. I remember watching Ronnie Lott choose to get his finger amputated instead of leaving the game early. Now players spend weeks on injured reserve for getting grass in their helmet. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-should-we-care-if-playing-in-the-nfl-has-long-time-health-problems/731726.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-should-we-care-if-playing-in-the-nfl-has-long-time-health-problems/731726.md?page=4)