# Why should we keep popular recreational use drugs illegal? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 12, 2018, 7:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-should-we-keep-popular-recreational-use-drugs-illegal/825987 "2018-12-12T07:52:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Textual\_Innuendo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/898d66/32.png) [@Textual\_Innuendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Textual_Innuendo)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2018, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-should-we-keep-popular-recreational-use-drugs-illegal/825987/61 "2018-12-15T19:22:41Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > You dont drink, smoke and whatnot and stay young and vibrant and just die ten years early. You age, you get old, you get sick, and feeble earlier- and then die early. Doing drugs, heavy drinking and smoking just cuts out five or ten healthy years. Do we actually know that? I haven’t seen cites, but I think this is the same thing **MichaelEMouse** was asking - I guess I’ve been assuming alcoholics and drug addicts die with much less interaction with the health system overall given those I’ve known in my life, but I haven’t seen population-level statistics on that and am willing to be corrected. I mean, take overdosing, which I think is the primary fatality vector for heavy drug users - I would bet 80%+ are “overdosed and was dead on arrival” and then another 15% “overdosed and after a month or less of medical care, died,” with maybe 5% “overdosed and needed long term care and lots of medical intervention before finally dying.” And that just HAS to be less overall medical cost in that cohort than the much broader old-aged “lurched along the last two decades of life with obesity, diabetes, a few heart attacks, and multiple comorbidities before dying” population. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2018, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-should-we-keep-popular-recreational-use-drugs-illegal/825987/62 "2018-12-15T20:22:07Z")
> [@Textual\_Innuendo](#): > > Do we actually know that? I haven’t seen cites, but I think this is the same thing **MichaelEMouse** was asking - I guess I’ve been assuming alcoholics and drug addicts die with much less interaction with the health system overall given those I’ve known in my life, but I haven’t seen population-level statistics on that and am willing to be corrected. > > I mean, take overdosing, which I think is the primary fatality vector for heavy drug users - I would bet 80%+ are “overdosed and was dead on arrival” and then another 15% “overdosed and after a month or less of medical care, died,” with maybe 5% “overdosed and needed long term care and lots of medical intervention before finally dying.” > > And that just HAS to be less overall medical cost in that cohort than the much broader old-aged “lurched along the last two decades of life with obesity, diabetes, a few heart attacks, and multiple comorbidities before dying” population. Well, yeah if you die forty years early due to overdose. But smoking definitely ages you early: > **[Surprising Ways Smoking Affects Your Looks](https://www.webmd.com/smoking-cessation/ss/slideshow-ways-smoking-affects-looks)** > > Pictures of twins show how smoking dramatically speeds up wrinkles and aging. Also covered: sagging breasts, early menopause, hair loss, cataracts, infertility, and other effects of smoking. Find out more from WebMD. > **[The Smoking Effect: How Cigarettes Make You Age Faster](https://forefrontdermatology.com/smoking-effect-cigarettes-make-age-faster/)** > > There are thousands of chemicals in a cigarette that help cause collagen and elastin breakdown in your skin. and so does abusing booze: > **[Does Alcohol Cause You to Age Faster? | Beach House Rehab](https://www.beachhouserehabcenter.com/does-alcohol-cause-you-to-age-faster/)** > > The best way to prevent premature aging from alcohol is to reduce daily consumption or to avoid alcohol. Learn how alcohol can cause you to age faster. [https://health.usnews.com/wellness/slideshows/14-ways-alcohol-affects-the-aging-process](https://health.usnews.com/wellness/slideshows/14-ways-alcohol-affects-the-aging-process) and so does drug abuse:[https://www.rehabcenter.net/drug-alcohol-abuse-aging/](https://www.rehabcenter.net/drug-alcohol-abuse-aging/) > **[Wrinkles, Lines, and Damage: Substance Abuse Effects on Aging](https://www.northpointrecovery.com/blog/wrinkles-lines-damage-substance-abuse-effects-aging/)** > > Substance abuse is bad for your appearance. Addiction and abuse cause premature aging, wrinkles, and more. Learn how substances can alter your appearance. ---
**Author:** ![Textual\_Innuendo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/898d66/32.png) [@Textual\_Innuendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Textual_Innuendo)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2018, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-should-we-keep-popular-recreational-use-drugs-illegal/825987/63 "2018-12-15T21:32:18Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Well, yeah if you die forty years early due to overdose. > > But smoking definitely ages you early: > > [Surprising Ways Smoking Affects Your Looks](https://www.webmd.com/smoking-cessation/ss/slideshow-ways-smoking-affects-looks) > … Ah, I think we’re talking about two different things then. I fully stipulate smoking and drinking and drugging will age people faster and impair their health while alive, but I still think we save money overall on them. Take smoking for example, which is probably better studied than illegal drug use; studies in [2008](https://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/05/health/05iht-obese.1.9748884.html) and [2012](https://bmjopen.bmj.com/content/2/6/e001678) found that reducing smoking in the population actually increases total healthcare costs, because although smokers have higher annual average costs while alive, they die many years sooner and overall save money. I would expect this medical expense savings effect to be even stronger in drug and alcohol dependent populations, as smoking takes 8 years off your life, but opiates take 18 and alcohol 26 years. ---
**Author:** ![epbrown01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7ba0ec/32.png) [@epbrown01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/epbrown01)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2018, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-should-we-keep-popular-recreational-use-drugs-illegal/825987/64 "2018-12-16T21:20:33Z")
> [@UCBearcats](#): > > Why should my taxes go for funding this? I work check to check for the things I have. I don’t need more of my money thrown away on degenerates wasting their life. In a big city like Chicago or NYC, it costs up to one million dollars to prosecute a felony drug charge if it goes to trial, and about $35,000 a year to incarcerate the person after conviction. It’s not about more money, it’s about how we spend it. ---
**Author:** ![Urbanredneck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ea5d25/32.png) [@Urbanredneck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urbanredneck)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2018, 6:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-should-we-keep-popular-recreational-use-drugs-illegal/825987/65 "2018-12-18T06:55:22Z")
While I can see legalizing marijuana and maybe coke I cannot see others like meth because some drugs are just so nasty and addicting that keeping them illegal just might be protecting people from themselves. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2018, 1:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-should-we-keep-popular-recreational-use-drugs-illegal/825987/66 "2018-12-18T13:47:11Z")
> [@Brayne\_Ded](#): > > FWIW, some studies claim that the tax taken in on tobacco is less that the extra health costs incurred by smokers. No comment. I thought it was the other way around - that smoking reduces health care costs, [overall](https://bmjopen.bmj.com/content/2/6/e001678), because [ul][li]Smoking-related illness is a relatively cheap way to die. A common first symptom of heart disease, for instance, is death. [/li] > [@](#): > > Cardiac survival rates around 6 percent for those occurring outside of a hospital [Cite](https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2015/06/150630135103.htm). And for diseases like lung cancer, once you are symptomatic, you die quickly, and don’t incur the other health care costs of old age. [li]Smokers tend to die before they collect Social Security, so that saves money too. If I die from smoking in my fifties, I have paid into SS but don’t collect from it. [/ul]That doesn’t mean that smoking is a good idea.[/li] Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![spifflog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c5a1d2/32.png) [@spifflog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spifflog)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2018, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-should-we-keep-popular-recreational-use-drugs-illegal/825987/67 "2018-12-18T16:28:20Z")
With the opioid epidemic gripping the nation today, I’m amazed that some think heroin and other opioids should be legalized. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2018, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-should-we-keep-popular-recreational-use-drugs-illegal/825987/68 "2018-12-18T16:33:45Z")
> [@spifflog](#): > > With the opioid epidemic gripping the nation today, I’m amazed that some think heroin and other opioids should be legalized. A lot of the ODs are the result of street-level opioids. Drugs from a pharmaceutical source won’t have the “quality control” problems. ---
**Author:** ![PastTense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pasttense/32/14550_2.png) [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2018, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-should-we-keep-popular-recreational-use-drugs-illegal/825987/69 "2018-12-18T16:57:04Z")
> [@epbrown01](#): > > In a big city like Chicago or NYC, it costs up to one million dollars to prosecute a felony drug charge if it goes to trial… Cite? ---
**Author:** ![PastTense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pasttense/32/14550_2.png) [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2018, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-should-we-keep-popular-recreational-use-drugs-illegal/825987/70 "2018-12-18T17:19:10Z")
> [@Textual\_Innuendo](#): > > I would expect this medical expense savings effect to be even stronger in drug and alcohol dependent populations, as smoking takes 8 years off your life, but opiates take 18 and **alcohol 26 years**. Alcohol 26 years? Cite? ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2018, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-should-we-keep-popular-recreational-use-drugs-illegal/825987/71 "2018-12-18T17:29:08Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > A lot of the ODs are the result of street-level opioids. Drugs from a pharmaceutical source won’t have the “quality control” problems. According to [this chart](https://www.kff.org/other/state-indicator/opioid-overdose-deaths-by-type-of-opioid/?currentTimeframe=0&sortModel=%7B%22colId%22:%22Location%22,%22sort%22:%22asc%22%7D), most of the OD deaths are not from heroin. Heroin - 15,469. Synthetic opioids - 19,413 Natural and semi-synthetic opioids like oxycodone and hydrocodone -14,487. I think much of the synthetic opioid is Chinese Fentanyl. I don’t know how good quality control is in China, but I don’t think that’s the problem. Fentanyl is very, very potent, so even pharmaceutical-grade is going to be more liable to overdose. No doubt a lot of it is due to pharmaceutical sources being diverted to the street, but that is not IMO quite the same thing. Hopefully a knowledgeable source (“Dr. **Qadgop.** Paging Dr. **Qadgop**.”) will be along to correct me. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2018, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-should-we-keep-popular-recreational-use-drugs-illegal/825987/72 "2018-12-18T18:11:19Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > According to [this chart](https://www.kff.org/other/state-indicator/opioid-overdose-deaths-by-type-of-opioid/?currentTimeframe=0&sortModel=%7B%22colId%22:%22Location%22,%22sort%22:%22asc%22%7D), most of the OD deaths are not from heroin. > > Heroin - 15,469. > Synthetic opioids - 19,413 > Natural and semi-synthetic opioids like oxycodone and hydrocodone -14,487. > > **I think much of the synthetic opioid is Chinese Fentanyl. I don’t know how good quality control is in China, but I don’t think that’s the problem. Fentanyl is very, very potent, so even pharmaceutical-grade is going to be more liable to overdose.** > > No doubt a lot of it is due to pharmaceutical sources being diverted to the street, but that is not IMO quite the same thing. > > Hopefully a knowledgeable source (“Dr. **Qadgop.** Paging Dr. **Qadgop**.”) will be along to correct me. > > Regards, > Shodan Quality control at the dealer level.(Hence the quote marks) Fentanyl is often used to increase the potency of heroin while reducing the cost. The difficulty is getting it evenly mixed which results in many of the ODs. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2018, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-should-we-keep-popular-recreational-use-drugs-illegal/825987/73 "2018-12-18T18:20:27Z")
> [@PastTense](#): > > Alcohol 26 years? Cite? [this CDC page](https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm5337a2.htm) puts the average YPLL due alcohol use at 30, but it is rather old (nearly 20 years) data. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2018, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-should-we-keep-popular-recreational-use-drugs-illegal/825987/74 "2018-12-18T20:56:28Z")
> [@PastTense](#): > > Alcohol 26 years? Cite? Alcoholic heavy drinker, maybe. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2018, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-should-we-keep-popular-recreational-use-drugs-illegal/825987/75 "2018-12-18T21:07:23Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > Quality control at the dealer level.(Hence the quote marks) Fentanyl is often used to increase the potency of heroin while reducing the cost. The difficulty is getting it evenly mixed which results in many of the ODs. Do you have a cite that the heroin deaths in the chart I cited are from mixing heroin with Fentanyl? They seem to be listed separately. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2018, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-should-we-keep-popular-recreational-use-drugs-illegal/825987/76 "2018-12-18T21:13:17Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Do you have a cite that the heroin deaths in the chart I cited are from mixing heroin with Fentanyl? They seem to be listed separately. > > Regards, > Shodan Not a chart or stats: [Business Insider.](https://www.businessinsider.com/junkies-cutting-heroin-with-fetanyl-2015-8) > [@](#): > > Mexican cartels produce a variant called acetyl fentanyl and smuggle it into the United States for distribution, according to an NPR report. The DEA warns that all around America, drug dealers are cutting heroin with acetyl fentanyl to drive up the potency of their product. > > “If you make that right mix, everyone loves your stuff,” Angelo Alonzo, a recovering addict who tried heroin laced with fentanyl, told NPR. “But, you know, that right mix might kill some people, too.” > > In a period from late 2013 through 2014, federal officials estimate that there were at least 700 fentanyl-related deaths nationwide. More recently, reports of fentanyl overdoses have spread like wildfire. > > This week, Maine Gov. Paul LePage convened a summit to address the heroin crisis in his state, calling on the National Guard to aid in efforts to thwart drug traffickers. > > “In July alone, we suspect that approximately one death a day in Maine was due to a drug overdose of some sort,” Maine Attorney General Janet Mills told NPR. “We are confirming this with laboratory testing, but a substantial number of those involved fentanyl.” ---
**Author:** ![Two\_Many\_Cats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8dc957/32.png) [@Two\_Many\_Cats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Two_Many_Cats)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2018, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-should-we-keep-popular-recreational-use-drugs-illegal/825987/77 "2018-12-18T23:44:50Z")
> [@Tatterdemalion](#): > > Seriously effective arms control? Ooh, now that’s just mean. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2018, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-should-we-keep-popular-recreational-use-drugs-illegal/825987/78 "2018-12-19T00:36:28Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Alcoholic heavy drinker, maybe. The CDC page I linked includes the spectrum. If you get blitzed and fall off the veranda, breaking your neck in the ravine below, or wrack your car up on a tree, or eat the barrel of a shotgun from amplified despondency, it may take but one episode of drinking too much to truncate your existence. And ISTR reading a thread in this very board about a guy who still drinks 2 or 3 bottles of wine a day at age 80, so YMMV. Booze in quantity tends to make one stupid, but some people manage their stupid better than others. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2018, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-should-we-keep-popular-recreational-use-drugs-illegal/825987/79 "2018-12-19T01:27:53Z")
In that case the 20 year old age of the data could be important as there could be an increase (or decrease, to be fair), of safe drinking culture. 26 years seems a little high from sheer physiological harm from even a hardcore bottle-downer, although it does seem in the right order of magnitude. ---
**Author:** ![jackdavinci](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackdavinci/32/3259_2.png) [@jackdavinci](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jackdavinci)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2018, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-should-we-keep-popular-recreational-use-drugs-illegal/825987/80 "2018-12-19T03:22:09Z")
My only question is how legalizing recreational drugs would affect regulating everything else. By what system do we still regulate food and drugs for safety while still allowing sale of things that aren’t really safe, for effectiveness, and for counterindications? Obviously, there will great harm reduction in regulating the recreational stuff just for dosage and purity, but those aren’t the only things we regulate for. Would there be a separate category with looser standards? How do we deal with things that have both medicinal and recreational use? How do we navigate issues of liability? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-should-we-keep-popular-recreational-use-drugs-illegal/825987.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-should-we-keep-popular-recreational-use-drugs-illegal/825987.md?page=5)