# Why shouldn't all late-term abortions be legal? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [February 3, 2019, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-shouldnt-all-late-term-abortions-be-legal/828889 "2019-02-03T17:53:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2019, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-shouldnt-all-late-term-abortions-be-legal/828889/41 "2019-02-05T00:20:18Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Any specific recommendations? My current impression is that the reasons they usually offer for seeking an abortion late in pregnancy are unimpressive. Why don’t you give us a few cites to see if your impressions match up with ours? ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2019, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-shouldnt-all-late-term-abortions-be-legal/828889/42 "2019-02-05T00:31:39Z")
> [@RitterSport](#): > > I haven’t researched really late term abortions much, so I’m genuinely curious about where you got those impressions from. I found one case at 30-plus weeks, and it was pretty heartbreaking, and that’s it. What have you seen? > > Would it be possible to avoid really pro-life cites? Because I’ll discount those pretty heavily. > [@Czarcasm](#): > > Why don’t you give us a few cites to see if your impressions match up with ours? [Who Seeks Abortions at or After 20 Weeks?](https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1363/4521013) > [@](#): > > … data suggest that most women seeking later terminations are not doing so for reasons of fetal anomaly or life endangerment. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2019, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-shouldnt-all-late-term-abortions-be-legal/828889/43 "2019-02-05T00:49:36Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > [Who Seeks Abortions at or After 20 Weeks?](https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1363/4521013) Are there any cites for really late abortions? Your study link was to yet another study that lumps in everything from 20 weeks on. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2019, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-shouldnt-all-late-term-abortions-be-legal/828889/44 "2019-02-05T01:01:37Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Are there any cites for really late abortions? Your study link was to yet another study that lumps in everything from 20 weeks on. Not that I know of, but I’d be interested in it if someone did. In the meantime, some light reading: > [@](#): > > [A late termination of pregnancy often refers to an induced ending of pregnancy after the 20th week of gestation. The exact point when a pregnancy becomes late-term, however, is not clearly defined. Some sources define an abortion after 16 weeks as “late”.[5][6] Three articles published in 1998 in the same issue of the Journal of the American Medical Association(JAMA) could not agree on the definition. Two of the JAMA articles chose the 20th week of gestation to be the point where an abortion procedure would be considered late-term.[7] The third JAMA article chose the third trimester, or 27th week of gestation.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Late_termination_of_pregnancy#Definition) At what point would you place your personal cutoff for “really late abortions”? ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2019, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-shouldnt-all-late-term-abortions-be-legal/828889/45 "2019-02-05T01:02:05Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > [Who Seeks Abortions at or After 20 Weeks?](https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1363/4521013) You mention why they aren’t seeking abortions after 20 weeks but not why they are. For example, is it a valid reason if they had so much troubling scheduling it earlier due to so many onerous restrictions and so few abortion clinics? For example, if you live several hundred miles from the nearest clinic and you’re required to make two visits with a waiting period between the visits, it might take some time to work that into an hourly job schedule. In NY, it would be a piece of cake to get it done early, but Texas? Mississippi? May be difficult if you’re poor. That is, if your main concern is late-term abortions. We all know that all those onerous restrictions are because those legislators want to ban abortion outright. One result will be more late term abortions, and then people can complain at the number of late term abortions. It’s all so disingenuous, just like Erick Erickson’s crocodile tears about the Virginia law. (To be clear, I’m not saying you’re being disingenuous – it’s those passing those laws) ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2019, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-shouldnt-all-late-term-abortions-be-legal/828889/46 "2019-02-05T01:09:55Z")
> [@RitterSport](#): > > You mention why they aren’t seeking abortions after 20 weeks but not why they are. … The study said this: > [@](#): > > Our factor analysis identified five general profiles of women who sought later abortions, describing 80% of the sample. Forty‐two percent of later abortion patients fit only one group; 38% belonged in two or more groups. The five “general profiles” offered were: 1. Raising children alone 2. Depressed or using illicit substances 3. Conflict with male partner or domestic violence 4. Trouble deciding and access problems 5. Young and nulliparous ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2019, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-shouldnt-all-late-term-abortions-be-legal/828889/47 "2019-02-05T01:13:17Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Because preserving an innocent human being from being killed is more important that a woman’s wish to avoid labor or a C-section. > > Because preserving an innocent human being from being killed is more important than a woman’s desire to avoid financial, family, or social consequences. > > Because sometimes if you wait too long, circumstances change, and you can no longer choose from the same options. Even if the reason why you waited too long isn’t your fault. > > Because it’s an innocent human life, and therefore is not just a matter of the woman’s body. > > Regards, > Shodan I am pro-choice, and I pretty much agree with this. Abortion should not be used as birth control. Once viability is reached, it is person. The only valid reason for a late term abortion is that the pregnancy threatens the mother’s life. ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2019, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-shouldnt-all-late-term-abortions-be-legal/828889/48 "2019-02-05T01:22:44Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > The study said this: > > The five “general profiles” offered were: > > 1. Raising children alone > > 2. Depressed or using illicit substances > > 3. Conflict with male partner or domestic violence > > 4. Trouble deciding and access problems > > 5. Young and nulliparous So, which one is not a good enough reason in your mind? Number 5? Number 4, except for the access problems part? Do you think access should be easier to avoid late term abortions? > [@Typo\_Negative](#): > > I am pro-choice, and I pretty much agree with this. Abortion should not be used as birth control. Once viability is reached, it is person. The only valid reason for a late term abortion is that the pregnancy threatens the mother’s life. I guess you’re not pro-choice then. Anyway, how about severe deformities in the fetus? Threats to the mother’s health, such as a cancer diagnosis or possible loss of organs? What if the father dies and the mother no longer has any means of supporting herself, or even paying for the hospital bills to give birth? What if the fetus is viable but will likely only live for weeks due to some developmental defect? Hey, OP, are you coming back? I think you should be defending your OP as well here. It’s your thesis that there should be zero restrictions, not mine. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2019, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-shouldnt-all-late-term-abortions-be-legal/828889/49 "2019-02-05T01:29:08Z")
> [@RitterSport](#): > > So, which one is not a good enough reason in your mind? … Any and / or all of them. > [@RitterSport](#): > > … Do you think access should be easier to avoid late term abortions? … No. > [@RitterSport](#): > > … Hey, OP, are you coming back? I think you should be defending your OP as well here. It’s your thesis that there should be zero restrictions, not mine. Perhaps (hopefully) he has realized it’s not a very good thesis. ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2019, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-shouldnt-all-late-term-abortions-be-legal/828889/50 "2019-02-05T01:44:14Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Any and / or all of them. > No. > Perhaps (hopefully) he has realized it’s not a very good thesis. So, are you anti-abortion/pro-life in general? If so, it seems like this isn’t the thread for you, since it was meant to be focused on late-term abortions. Assuming you’re only against late-term abortions, why wouldn’t you want better access to early abortions? That will help avoid the late-term ones. In the Wiki article, about half said that problems scheduling the abortion accounted for their 16+ week abortion, so I don’t understand your “No” above. If you’re just taking a pro-life position, I’m out. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2019, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-shouldnt-all-late-term-abortions-be-legal/828889/51 "2019-02-05T01:51:35Z")
> [@RitterSport](#): > > So, are you anti-abortion/pro-life in general? … Yes. > [@RitterSport](#): > > … If so, it seems like this isn’t the thread for you, since it was meant to be focused on late-term abortions. … I felt like my posts were providing useful information focused on late-term abortions. ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2019, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-shouldnt-all-late-term-abortions-be-legal/828889/52 "2019-02-05T02:16:05Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Yes. > I felt like my posts were providing useful information focused on late-term abortions. Not really. I thought all of those reasons were pretty much OK and basically what I expected (and pretty close to what I had already linked to in the Wiki article). So, those are the reasons – so what? And, your overall opinion on the subject made your answers nonsensical for someone whose concern was late-term abortions, like **Typo Negative** – to avoid that, you’d want easy access to early term, so your “No” above threw me. Anyway, if the OP’s not coming back, I’m not either. ---
**Author:** ![ftg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ftg/32/2801_2.png) [@ftg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ftg)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2019, 1:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-shouldnt-all-late-term-abortions-be-legal/828889/53 "2019-02-05T13:19:04Z")
> [@RitterSport](#): > > Can you tell me who is advocating for abortions any time for any reason? It seems to me that the one who has trouble with absolutes is you. Well, if you waited a bit **AHunter3** gives you an [example](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=21470381&postcount=38). And secondly … Good grief. I was explicitly _not_ happy with absolutes. So yeah, I have trouble with them. No “sounds like” needed! You seem to be getting too wound up here and not actually understanding things. Relax a bit. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2019, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-shouldnt-all-late-term-abortions-be-legal/828889/54 "2019-02-05T16:16:01Z")
> [@RitterSport](#): > > Not really. I thought all of those reasons were pretty much OK and basically what I expected (and pretty close to what I had already linked to in the Wiki article). So, those are the reasons – so what? Well, if you think the linked reasons are sufficient justification for a late-term abortion, then we are at an impasse. The point is that those reasons for a later-term abortion have nothing to do with fetal abnormalities or danger to the mother. If a viable fetus is a child, and it is OK to abort it for reasons of convenience, that’s certainly a position. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2019, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-shouldnt-all-late-term-abortions-be-legal/828889/55 "2019-02-05T17:40:29Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Well, if you think the linked reasons are sufficient justification for a late-term abortion, then we are at an impasse. The point is that those reasons for a later-term abortion have nothing to do with fetal abnormalities or danger to the mother. > > If a viable fetus is a child, and it is OK to abort it for reasons of convenience, that’s certainly a position. > > Regards, > Shodan Given that the reasons linked here are for 16+ weeks, and not 40ish weeks, then it would only make sense to base your arguments on what people at 40ish weeks are saying. If you were to take what someone at 16.5 weeks said, and imply that it is something that someone at 40ish weeks said, then that would be an extremely dishonest form of debate. You should do your best to avoid conflating those different things in the future. Now, if I it is “okay” to get an abortion at 16 weeks, but not at 17, and I find out I am pregnant at 10 weeks, think about if for a week, then try to get the procedure done, but due to regulations put in by “pro-life” advocates, I am delayed from being able to have the procedure until after 16 weeks, then any ethical issues with aborting that fetus are on those who forced it to be that late, not on the person who was forced to wait. So, if you want to avoid those ethical issues, then stop creating them. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2019, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-shouldnt-all-late-term-abortions-be-legal/828889/56 "2019-02-05T17:42:28Z")
Like many of the pro-choicers, I’m not in favor of all late term abortions being legal. I think of it as the “Apartment Analogy”. There is someone in your apartment, you have the right to ask them to leave, you have the right to have the Sheriff show up and make them leave, even if they are physically incapable of living when outside your apartment. What you do not have the right to do is demand that the Sheriff shove them out a 10th story window, when they could have lived if you let them out the door. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2019, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-shouldnt-all-late-term-abortions-be-legal/828889/57 "2019-02-05T17:44:50Z")
I don’t think abortions for reasons of convenience prior to 16 weeks are “okay” either. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2019, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-shouldnt-all-late-term-abortions-be-legal/828889/58 "2019-02-05T17:55:24Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > I don’t think abortions for reasons of convenience prior to 16 weeks are “okay” either. Which types of abortions do you think don’t fit into this category? ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2019, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-shouldnt-all-late-term-abortions-be-legal/828889/59 "2019-02-05T18:01:09Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Which types of abortions do you think don’t fit into this category? For starters, the aforementioned fraction that are sought for “reasons of fetal anomaly or life endangerment” ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2019, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-shouldnt-all-late-term-abortions-be-legal/828889/60 "2019-02-05T18:05:38Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > Given that the reasons linked here are for 16+ weeks, and not 40ish weeks, then it would only make sense to base your arguments on what people at 40ish weeks are saying. If you were to take what someone at 16.5 weeks said, and imply that it is something that someone at 40ish weeks said, then that would be an extremely dishonest form of debate. You should do your best to avoid conflating those different things in the future. See posts 30, 42, and 44. You should do your best to keep up with a thread as it develops. Regards, Shodan [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-shouldnt-all-late-term-abortions-be-legal/828889.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-shouldnt-all-late-term-abortions-be-legal/828889.md?page=4)