Why Shouldn't I Move To New York?

That’s silly. You can easily get a renovated “Junior 4” (a master + smaller child’s bedroom) for $1400 in my neighborhood of Kew Gardens, Queens. Actually you could probably get a regular 2BR for that as well. This neighborhood is rent stabilized, just about all the apartment buildings have elevators and onsite supers, hardwood floors and new appliances. There is a decent elementary school, its walking distance to both subways and commuter rail (LIRR), there’s a major city park with a newly renovated playground, and plenty of onstreet parking if you want to keep your car. You can hop on the Grand Central Parkway and be at a suburban Target or IKEA in 20 minutes.

Kew Gardens is desperately unhip but it’s a lovely, homey neighborhood of families. There is a high population of Orthodox Jewish families of Russian descent, and in adjoining Richmond Hill, a large Bangladeshi population.

And you, sir or madam, have given me my reason. Damn. I thought rents out of the city weren’t that bad. More research is clearly needed.

That’s pretty close–I live just the other side of Forest Park from Hello Again and I pay (or would charge someone to sub-let, actually) about $1500 a month for my two-bedroom apartment.

But again, for many millions of people, moving to a city still IS worth it. I know many people who have lived in both the cities and the suburbs, and for whatever reason, they’ll pick the city any time - in spite of the housing costs and everything else. Clearly it’s not worth it to you (and maybe it won’t be worth it to Alice the Goon), but I think you’re being too dismissive of the many people who think it’s worth every penny. If, for example, you’re a person who finds the 'burbs terminally boring and alienating, and no amount of backyard space and car conveniences can change that for you, it might just be worth it to move to a city.

As for snow and cold, I grew up in Michigan, so that doesn’t matter to me.

Borough?

Borough. Oh yeah. Thanks!

Utilities are also crazy-high in NYC.

I lived in a TEENY studio apartment (like 400 square feet teeny), ran my AC only when it was UNBEARABLE or my cat looked ready to keel over, I WORKED FOR THE UTILITY COMPANY AT THE TIME, and my summer electric bill was STILL almost $400 a month.

Just something else to think about.

Oh, and screw you, ConEd. There. I feel better now. :smiley:

I dearly love NYC and miss it terribly.
However, I lived there when I was younger and didn’t care about anything but going out and having a great time.

I have lived in Chicago, NYC, Berlin, Los Angeles and now, Las Vegas. I always tell people you need to have at least enough money to last 3 months without finding a job in a new city, no matter where you move. - and that was when the economy was good. So, just based on rent and groceries and other basic needs, I would guess you would need at least $7,000-$10,000 to move to NYC, settle in and hope you could find work within the 3 months to keep you afloat.

Let me tell you, there is no place WORSE to live than in NYC if you are broke, or don’t have much money. There is a reason people earn more there; it costs a lot to live there!

I have always said I would love to move back to Manhattan, but only if I had a job that paid me at least $100,000 year, minimum. I am too old to live hand to mouth like I did back then, although for a guy in his 20’s, it was an adventure…today it would be hell.

This might be a useful way to think of it: In the suburbs, your life outside of work tends to revolve around your house, or a friend’s house. There aren’t that many other places to socialize, and they’re farther away.

In the city, on the other hand, your apartment is the place you go to sleep, eat, and occasionally hang out - but most apartments aren’t that big, and there are plenty of other places to go, so your life outside of work will tend to revolve around those places. The theater, museums, your volunteer gig (far more of those in any decent-sized city), whatever floats your boat. When you live in a city, the city becomes the center of your life outside of work.

So - which sounds better to you, Alice? If you really, really want a big home with all the suburban amenties, then think long and hard before moving to the city. (For just one example, how would you feel about having to use a laundromat instead of your own washer/dryer?) But if you’re willing to make the trade-off, I think living in a big city can be an incredible experience.

That said, not all cities are created equal. With all due respect to the NYC Dopers, I could never live there - it’s just too big, too crowded, and I grew up in a small town. For me, DC is a great compromise - all the perks of a big city, and it’s not overwhelming. It might make sense for you to look at a few cities, not just NYC, to make sure there isn’t another that would suit you better.

Why wouldn’t you have a washer/dryer in NY?

Not all apartment buildings have them. Residents of those buildings use laundromats.

craigslist will help. You might want to browse to see what $1,200/month will get you in Brooklyn or Queens. Those can only tell you so much since you’re not familiar with the character of any of the neighborhoods, but used in conjunction with Google Street you might be able to get an idea.

I was apartment-hunting last year. There seemed to be a pretty steep drop off in what you could get in a 2 bedroom at around $12K-$13K. There are cheaper 2BRs, but anything much below that and you probably have make major sacrifices regarding at least one of apartment size/quality, neighborhood, or distance from Manhattan. I’m paying $1,350 for a 2BR in Ridgewood, Queens, which is a working class, mostly Hispanic neighborhood (friendly community, well-maintained, no crime to speak of, 15-20 minutes from Manhattan by subway). The apartment itself is perfectly nice (clean, new fixtures, etc.), except for being a railroad apartment, which is the kind of inconvenience you might have to accept to live in the city on a tight budget. What’s your living situation now? What you could afford and what you’ve come to consider a livable apartment could potentially be at odds (or not).

Anyway, the city is extremely expensive. On the other hand, all else being equal your job will pay more in New York than in Tucson, and you can save money by selling your car, which is more of an inconvenience than an asset for a lot of people (depends on exactly where you live/work, of course).

Um… maybe you had a really crappy air conditioner? Our place is much larger than that and our electric is never more than $150, in the summer. Our A/C units are new, we switched to CFL light bulbs, and we don’t leave our computers turned on, but other than that, no heroic electricity-saving measures.

Also, heat and gas are both included in my rent. (steam heat, gas stove).

Rents are certainly jaw-dropping compared to most of the country, I won’t argue that. However, pay is usually higher in NYC than other places for comparable jobs (I know people who make twice what they made back in Michigan) and there are savings in not keeping a car that tend to balance out the higher rent. (insurance, gas, annual inspection, registration/tags, oil changes, scheduled maintenance - it adds up).

Living in NYC is not that hard. Moving to NYC however, is a giant pain in the butt. Many, if not most, apartments in good neighborhoods use brokers, and the renter pays the broker a fee - 12% of the annual! Highway robbery! Getting a “no-fee” apartment is definitely possible, but its a lot of work and you have to be quick off the mark. Good places are known to rent within hours of listing. Many rental agents are also vaguely sketchy and all demand a credit report, sometimes even current bank statements - and then will only take deposit in cash or some other sketchy thing that screams tax evasion. Meanwhile you need someplace to stay while you are looking - virtually no one will rent to someone who isn’t standing in front of them - and that can be expensive if you don’t have a helpful friend willing to let you crash.

There are some arcane rules to trip up the unwary (for example, you can’t put a truck on anything called a “Parkway” - because of the very low bridges! A few people every year cause a massive traffic backup by getting stuck behind - or worse yet wedged under - a Parkway bridge. )

It is not a small task.

I’ll second this; I think we got up to a high of about $125 in the summer.

That’s severely messed up. Perhaps the compressor on your A/C was broken and running all the time. I’ve lived in three places in Brooklyn and Queens (studios and a 1BR) and never had a Con-Ed bill higher than $150 or so. And I have several computers and other crap that I don’t turn off.

One thing I would add is that NYC apartments are overall just not as nice as in AZ. Your typical apartment will not have a dishwasher, central A/C, or new appliances. Just having a basement laundry room in your building is something of a luxury, as mentioned lots of people use the corner laundromats. If something breaks the super will not necessarily be by within 24 hours to fix it (unless perhaps you happen to tip well at Christmas…) Now, you can find buildings with great service and amenities, but that will be reflected in the rent. Ditto for having a doorman to get packages and deliveries when you’re not home.

Also keep in mind:

  • the broker system (see HelloAgain’s post – the fees vary with the neighborhood and the economy but in the end the broker has to be paid. By you.)
  • rent stabilization (not to be confused with rent control.) When someone tells you they pay only X dollars for their great apartment, note that may be the stabilized rent, you can’t just call up the landlord and get the same great deal for yourself.

So just beware of all that, but otherwise it all sounds doable to me!

I already acknowledged the potential thrill of living in NYC (specifically the city, not just any large city). However, when discussing dollar value, you REALLY don’t want to go down this road. Dollar value is a different issue than the atmosphere of the city. This isn’t about the excitement of sloshing through snow for the privilege of waiting in a smelly subway in the hopes of getting a seat on a crowded train. Some people like to start their workday that way, I understand if it makes them feel alive to be in a bustling town. If the bright lights of Broadway make the panhandlers sparkle then you should make a case for it. At least give Alice the Goon a reason for living there.

The dollar value of living in New York is a different story. I googled the streetview of some of the addresses in the $1,400 range and they were no-nothing block apartments with window air conditioners. Starting with that as a base you then need to add in the reality of utilities. A $400 electric bill for a 400sq ft walk-in closet has to be adjusted up for a normal 2 bedroom apartment. You have to be able to cover the normal living expenses before any money is spent on the ambience. Otherwise you’re living hand-to-mouth in a small apartment with no view and no place to go.

On review of the comments others made about the electric bill I would say that the $400 estimate was a fluke. It should be pretty easy to compare the kwh rates but I couldn’t find a direct website for it.

See, you’re making it sound not fun at all.

I will plan on being rich before I get there. I’m on top of it.