# Why shouldn't people have to pay for shopping bags? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 11, 2015, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-shouldnt-people-have-to-pay-for-shopping-bags/712415 "2015-02-11T20:04:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2015, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-shouldnt-people-have-to-pay-for-shopping-bags/712415/41 "2015-02-12T19:20:13Z")
My opposition to it here in Dallas is because it’s a damned stealth tax that the City ostensibly introduced out of some kind of environmental love, but in reality, it’s a way for them to make more money without raising taxes. Assholes. Had they really wanted to do the environment a favor, they’d have just banned the things outright. But instead, they make the stores charge a 5 cent fee… that they pass through to themselves. The stores don’t get to keep it; they just get the fun and games of having to charge it and pester people to bring their own bags. What’s even more idiotic is that you can’t bring back plastic grocery bags for reuse. It has to be some kind of “reusable” bag, or they have to charge you 5 cents a bag for a new one. And finally… if they were serious about reducing the number of bags, they’d have made the fee like a quarter per bag; enough to make it noticeable. As it is, paying an extra quarter on a $75 grocery bill isn’t a big deal for me, but in aggregate, I’m sure it nets the city a bunch of extra money. ---
**Author:** ![Hey\_Hey\_Paula](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/85e7bf/32.png) [@Hey\_Hey\_Paula](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hey_Hey_Paula)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2015, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-shouldnt-people-have-to-pay-for-shopping-bags/712415/42 "2015-02-12T20:12:09Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > I live in LA. We’ve been paying for bags for about a year, I think. It’s an environmental issue. > > When it first started, several stores I went to gave out free reusable bags. It’s no big deal. It’s just the City of L.A. though, not the whole county. I work in Burbank, and when I stop at the stores by the office they still give out free plastic bags. If I stop by the stores by my house, I have to remember to bring my own or pay 10 cents for a paper bag. The paper bags are used to hold my recycling, or as cat toys, and the plastic bags line my bathroom trash cans or get used to carry my lunch to work. I have lots of reusable bags, but I usually forget them in the house or my car. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2015, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-shouldnt-people-have-to-pay-for-shopping-bags/712415/43 "2015-02-12T20:36:37Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > I had no idea that Executive Vice President Ricky Wai Ki Wong of the Hong Kong Plastic Bag Manufactuers Association had weighed in to say that disposable bags are better for the environment! Why, that just changes everything. > > The bag tax is very popular here. Your mileage may vary, etc. When you say “here” do you mean DC? because I live in DC as well. It may be tolerated as a way of funding the cleanup of the Anacostia but aside from a few people who already carried around their own hemp shopping bags before the bag tax or those people who think that shopping at whole foods makes them better global citizens, no one really “likes” the bag tax. In fact the bag tax may not have significantly reduced the use of plastic bags. [http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/dc-politics/tax-data-cast-doubt-on-claims-about-declining-use-of-plastic-bags-in-dc/2014/01/09/7b8c2302-7870-11e3-b1c5-739e63e9c9a7\_story.html](http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/dc-politics/tax-data-cast-doubt-on-claims-about-declining-use-of-plastic-bags-in-dc/2014/01/09/7b8c2302-7870-11e3-b1c5-739e63e9c9a7_story.html) ---
**Author:** ![DrCube](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a3d4f5/32.png) [@DrCube](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrCube)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2015, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-shouldnt-people-have-to-pay-for-shopping-bags/712415/44 "2015-02-12T22:12:44Z")
> [@bump](#): > > What’s even more idiotic is that you can’t bring back plastic grocery bags for reuse. It has to be some kind of “reusable” bag, or they have to charge you 5 cents a bag for a new one. They can’t actually force you to buy something you already own and don’t want more of, right? Can’t you just say, “no bags for me today, thanks” and be on your way? Why does the store even need to see the bags you brought in to use? Just tell them to put the purchased items back into the cart and you’ll take care of bagging them. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2015, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-shouldnt-people-have-to-pay-for-shopping-bags/712415/45 "2015-02-12T23:45:13Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > I think the issue is there being a law requiring the fee rather than the fee itself. The stores have no choice in the matter, although I suppose they could give you a credit if you paid X amount for groceries. Right. A store owner in San Francisco or Monterey (I forget which) told me that the city sends people around checking that bags are not given out, and the store owner can be fined if they are. This has nothing to do with costs or profitability. I’ve read that San Jose streams are much cleaner after the change. I certainly don’t see any around any more. As for dogs, for us the NY Times comes in a plastic bag which is better than the store bags, and you can still get free bags for vegetables. Bags and veggies - win win. ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2015, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-shouldnt-people-have-to-pay-for-shopping-bags/712415/46 "2015-02-12T23:55:49Z")
> [@CoastalMaineiac](#): > > Well, there go my free trash-can bags if that catches on in the rest of the state. > > I’d love to see how well they’ll be able to enforce it at self-checkout lanes. I’ve been using those thin plastic bags for wastebasket liners for some time now. When California passed the law banning the plastic bags (to go into effect this coming July I think), I began hoarding them (which I had not been doing before). I’m trying to collect a lifetime supply between now and July. Aside from that, I’ve collected about a dozen of the big brown paper shopping bags, which I had been re-using over and over. Doubling these bags makes them last longer – I’m almost certain that doubling them makes them last much more than twice as long. I get anywhere from 20 to 40 re-uses of the doubled paper bags before they fall apart. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2015, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-shouldnt-people-have-to-pay-for-shopping-bags/712415/47 "2015-02-13T00:01:45Z")
> [@boffking](#): > > Here in Portland, ME a lot of people are mad about the grocery bag fee that goes into effect in the spring. They’re not free, the price was included along with a storefront to shop in, heating, air conditioning etc… ---
**Author:** ![susan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/susan/32/17537_2.png) [@susan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/susan)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2015, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-shouldnt-people-have-to-pay-for-shopping-bags/712415/48 "2015-02-13T00:43:10Z")
I really don’t mind paying .05 a bag. A year of bags for my recycling for under $3. ---
**Author:** ![harmonicamoon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/65b543/32.png) [@harmonicamoon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/harmonicamoon)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2015, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-shouldnt-people-have-to-pay-for-shopping-bags/712415/49 "2015-02-13T00:56:35Z")
> [@The\_Joker\_and\_the\_Thief](#): > > Fair enough, and **SciFiSam** makes a good point that improvements in aesthetics result in people treating the environment better. But society has a limited amount of energy that’s its willing to expend to solve climate change, and it’d be hard to find a more trivial, more anger-rousing subject area than plastic bags. Solve climate change? Is there a problem? ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2015, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-shouldnt-people-have-to-pay-for-shopping-bags/712415/50 "2015-02-13T01:41:57Z")
> [@The\_Joker\_and\_the\_Thief](#): > > Fair enough, and **SciFiSam** makes a good point that improvements in aesthetics result in people treating the environment better. But society has a limited amount of energy that’s its willing to expend to solve climate change, and it’d be hard to find a more trivial, more anger-rousing subject area than plastic bags. I’m not sure that this has anything to do with climate change. It just cuts down littering. And clogging the streams. As for arousing anger, we’ve been doing it for a few years and I haven’t noticed much. You just have to remember to bring bags with you, and to have one in the car for unexpected errands. The conference I’m involved with gives them out as totes for our material, and since I get some of the surplus I’ve got plenty. In Germany they’ve been using reusable bags forever. I like my reusable bags better than plastic ones anyway. ---
**Author:** ![GrumpyBunny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bc8723/32.png) [@GrumpyBunny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GrumpyBunny)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2015, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-shouldnt-people-have-to-pay-for-shopping-bags/712415/51 "2015-02-13T02:01:13Z")
> [@pabstist](#): > > At our Shaws they subtract 3 cents for each reusable bag we use. Roche Brothers gives you a five-cent discount for each bag you bring. Carrot vs. stick. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2015, 3:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-shouldnt-people-have-to-pay-for-shopping-bags/712415/52 "2015-02-13T03:56:16Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > In fact the bag tax may not have significantly reduced the use of plastic bags. > > [http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/dc-politics/tax-data-cast-doubt-on-claims-about-declining-use-of-plastic-bags-in-dc/2014/01/09/7b8c2302-7870-11e3-b1c5-739e63e9c9a7\_story.html](http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/dc-politics/tax-data-cast-doubt-on-claims-about-declining-use-of-plastic-bags-in-dc/2014/01/09/7b8c2302-7870-11e3-b1c5-739e63e9c9a7_story.html) My interpretation is that people are less inclined to toss a plastic bag on the street if they have just paid a nickel for it. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2015, 4:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-shouldnt-people-have-to-pay-for-shopping-bags/712415/53 "2015-02-13T04:01:45Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > The bag tax in DC has led to a 70% reduction in the use of plastic bags, and a larger reduction in bag pollution in the Anacostia River, which was a disaster zone. Two thirds of DC residents also report seeing less litter on the streets. The tax has raised a rather consistent stream of revenue that is also being used for trash and litter cleanup. (Weirdly, some conservative groups are complaining that tax revenues ought to be increasing and bag use further decreasing. Which, really, is one of the stupidest policy criticisms I’ve ever heard, because the critics must have failed third grade math.) > > What more do you want? Overall, it has been an extremely successful program. Have you ever thrown a plastic bag into a waterway, or let it go so it gets into streets, trees, power lines, or whatever? No, and neither have I. I’d bet that 95% of the people on this message board haven’t either. Why should everyone else have to pay a tax because some people are lowlife scum? ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2015, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-shouldnt-people-have-to-pay-for-shopping-bags/712415/54 "2015-02-13T14:32:31Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > Have you ever thrown a plastic bag into a waterway, or let it go so it gets into streets, trees, power lines, or whatever? > > No, and neither have I. I’d bet that 95% of the people on this message board haven’t either. Why should everyone else have to pay a tax because some people are lowlife scum? Why should rivers be horribly polluted because some people are too lazy to bring their own bag to a grocery store? ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2015, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-shouldnt-people-have-to-pay-for-shopping-bags/712415/55 "2015-02-13T14:51:01Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > When you say “here” do you mean DC? because I live in DC as well. It may be tolerated as a way of funding the cleanup of the Anacostia but aside from a few people who already carried around their own hemp shopping bags before the bag tax or those people who think that shopping at whole foods makes them better global citizens, no one really “likes” the bag tax. 53% of DC residents polled support the law, 20% don’t care either way, and 16% are “bothered” by the law. So, you’re wrong. > [@](#): > > In fact the bag tax may not have significantly reduced the use of plastic bags. Read the article again. There’s strong empirical evidence that the initiation of the bag tax reduced consumption and litter. The question is why revenues from the bag tax have remained stable nearly five years after the fee went into effect. And the article postulates an answer: “While the use of bags may be stable or rising in absolute terms, she said, the rate of disposable-bag use could be declining when factoring in the city’s rising population and incomes.” Keep in mind also that bag tax revenues are steady at $2 million in 2014, as opposed to a projected level of $1 million. That glosses over the fact that revenue was $5 million in 2010. Do you dispute that $2 million is less than $5 million? If not, how can one not acknowledge that bag use has decreased a lot? ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2015, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-shouldnt-people-have-to-pay-for-shopping-bags/712415/56 "2015-02-13T14:54:03Z")
> [@DrCube](#): > > They can’t actually force you to buy something you already own and don’t want more of, right? Can’t you just say, “no bags for me today, thanks” and be on your way? Why does the store even need to see the bags you brought in to use? Just tell them to put the purchased items back into the cart and you’ll take care of bagging them. We have that option, yes. Bring your own bags, or no bags at all. What I was griping about is the idea that they’ll charge me 5 cents a bag and THEN prohibit me from bringing those bags back for reuse. It’s totally baffling in light of the law being environmentally based, which is what makes me think it’s a stealth tax. They really want people to buy more bags, otherwise there’s no good reason not to let you reuse the plastic bags all you want. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2015, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-shouldnt-people-have-to-pay-for-shopping-bags/712415/57 "2015-02-13T16:12:51Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > Have you ever thrown a plastic bag into a waterway, or let it go so it gets into streets, trees, power lines, or whatever? I’m sure I’ve never done it on purpose, but I know a couple of times I’ve had bags get away from me. One time I remember specifically, the bagger at the grocer had opened one bag, but it had a number of other bags still attached up at the tags. I grabbed the filled bag, went outside, and all of the other ones came off and fluttered away. Granted, I doubt that most pollution is caused so inadvertently, but some is. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2015, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-shouldnt-people-have-to-pay-for-shopping-bags/712415/58 "2015-02-13T16:31:44Z")
> [@bump](#): > > It’s totally baffling in light of the law being environmentally based, which is what makes me think it’s a stealth tax. It isn’t a stealth tax, it’s an upfront tax. In most places it is called “the bag tax.” > [@](#): > > They really want people to buy more bags, otherwise there’s no good reason not to let you reuse the plastic bags all you want. Who is “they”? I can tell you that in this area, the government really does want the use of plastic bags to go down. As far as not being allowed to reuse plastic bags, is that a store policy? ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2015, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-shouldnt-people-have-to-pay-for-shopping-bags/712415/59 "2015-02-13T16:48:07Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > It isn’t a stealth tax, it’s an upfront tax. In most places it is called “the bag tax.” Sure, but had they implemented it as a tax, nobody would have gone for it. The implication of the ads and literature was that the stores had to charge you, but not that the city got to keep the whole thing. > [@](#): > > Who is “they”? I can tell you that in this area, the government really does want the use of plastic bags to go down. As far as not being allowed to reuse plastic bags, is that a store policy? No, that’s a city policy. That’s what makes it so sketchy in my eyes. Why would they care in the least if people reused the plastic bags, unless they want people to buy the bags? ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2015, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-shouldnt-people-have-to-pay-for-shopping-bags/712415/60 "2015-02-13T17:13:32Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > Why should rivers be horribly polluted because some people are too lazy to bring their own bag to a grocery store? That’s nonsense. Not bringing your own bag to a grocery store does not cause pollution of rivers. My plastic grocery bags are stored in a holder in my kitchen pantry, where they get reused for things like carrying lunches to work, disposing of kitty litter, lining wastebaskets, etc. Those that are torn, or soiled from things like leaky raw meat packages, stay in the garage until they are returned to the store for recycling. Exactly zero go into the river. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-shouldnt-people-have-to-pay-for-shopping-bags/712415.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-shouldnt-people-have-to-pay-for-shopping-bags/712415.md?page=4)