# Why shouldn't women have to register for the draft? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 19, 2005, 8:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-shouldnt-women-have-to-register-for-the-draft/336274 "2005-12-19T08:16:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2005, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-shouldnt-women-have-to-register-for-the-draft/336274/41 "2005-12-20T14:37:58Z")
> [@MsRobyn](#): > > How is filling out a postcard once harassment? As **Mr. Moto** pointed out, the Selective Service has changed since Vietnam. I have never once had to certify my gender to anyone, let alone yearly. I just didn’t register for the SSS, and nothing happened. > > Robin I believe special circumstances apply to **lee**. ---
**Author:** ![MsRobyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/90ced4/32.png) [@MsRobyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsRobyn)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2005, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-shouldnt-women-have-to-register-for-the-draft/336274/42 "2005-12-20T14:43:30Z")
> [@Mr. Moto](#): > > I believe special circumstances apply to **lee**. AFAIK, **lee** is a natal female. Her partner, **KellyM** is a male-to-female transsexual. Robin ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2005, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-shouldnt-women-have-to-register-for-the-draft/336274/43 "2005-12-20T14:59:53Z")
Then I’m confused as well. ---
**Author:** ![MsRobyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/90ced4/32.png) [@MsRobyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsRobyn)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2005, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-shouldnt-women-have-to-register-for-the-draft/336274/44 "2005-12-20T15:03:01Z")
I thought that’s what you were referring to. Robin ---
**Author:** ![lee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lee/32/7455_2.png) [@lee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lee)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2005, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-shouldnt-women-have-to-register-for-the-draft/336274/45 "2005-12-20T15:26:22Z")
I don’t know why they thought I was male, but they did. ---
**Author:** ![MsRobyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/90ced4/32.png) [@MsRobyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsRobyn)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2005, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-shouldnt-women-have-to-register-for-the-draft/336274/46 "2005-12-20T15:32:32Z")
> [@lee](#): > > I don’t know why they thought I was male, but they did. Probably because you have an androgynous name. I myself have issues every year because I’m married and use my husband’s name, so I had to re-submit my veteran’s certification. I can’t believe you couldn’t have turned in a copy of your birth certificate to keep on file. All I had to do was turn in a copy of my DD-214 when my veteran’s status was questioned. Robin ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2005, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-shouldnt-women-have-to-register-for-the-draft/336274/47 "2005-12-20T16:41:55Z")
> [@A.R. Cane](#): > > Anyone else think of pro or con aspects. Con : Shoddy work ( or sabotage ) due to lack of enthusiasm or outright hatred. Increased hatred towards the American government by draftees. Fewer actual volunteers due to bad association with forced “volunteerism”. Increased hostility towards charity/service in general. If I was _forced_ into some kind of “public service”, I personally would regard it as my duty to do as much damage as I could get away with in retaliation. ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2005, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-shouldnt-women-have-to-register-for-the-draft/336274/48 "2005-12-20T18:44:47Z")
> [@MsRobyn](#): > > AFAIK, **lee** is a natal female. Her partner, **KellyM** is a male-to-female transsexual. > > Robin The Selective Service doesn’t recognize sex-changes. A transwoman must still register for SS even though she would not be drafted under current rules. The SS won’t catogorize (1F, 4F, 1A, etc) unless the draft is reinstated. ). ---
**Author:** ![cher3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/da6949/32.png) [@cher3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cher3)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2005, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-shouldnt-women-have-to-register-for-the-draft/336274/49 "2005-12-20T19:09:34Z")
> [@Frostillicus](#): > > You are missing the point of the pregnancy argument. If women could be drafted, especially into an unpopular war such as we are currently engaged, we would see a huge increase in the number of 18 year old pregnant women in this country. (I.e., pregnant women can’t serve in the military.) Yes, they can. They used to be required to leave the service. This was then changed to giving them the option to leave. Now, pregnancy is typically not seen as an excuse for early separation and they serve out their terms at the least. In the Navy they are temporarily exempt from sea duty and may be transferred to avoid dealing with hazardous substances, but that’s about it. I’ve seen plenty of maternity uniforms around here. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2005, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-shouldnt-women-have-to-register-for-the-draft/336274/50 "2005-12-20T19:30:53Z")
That is true. However, you cannot join initially and go through boot camp while pregnant, for very obvious reasons. Therefore, someone could presumably dodge or delay induction through pregnancy. ---
**Author:** ![MsRobyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/90ced4/32.png) [@MsRobyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsRobyn)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2005, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-shouldnt-women-have-to-register-for-the-draft/336274/51 "2005-12-20T19:45:28Z")
> [@alphaboi867](#): > > The Selective Service doesn’t recognize sex-changes. A transwoman must still register for SS even though she would not be drafted under current rules. The SS won’t catogorize (1F, 4F, 1A, etc) unless the draft is reinstated. > ). I understand that. I don’t know **KellyM** ’s SSS status, and frankly, it’s not germane to this discussion. I was under the impression that **Mr. Moto** thought **lee** was transgendered. I simply said she wasn’t. Robin ---
**Author:** ![Maastricht](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a88e57/32.png) [@Maastricht](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maastricht)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2005, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-shouldnt-women-have-to-register-for-the-draft/336274/52 "2005-12-20T21:12:51Z")
**Malacandra** , I am no liar and I don’t like to be called a liar. However, I am known, as sloppy and not very accurate with numbers, especially when I’m posting in a hurry before work. **Polerius** corrected me, more politely and more factually then you did, and I immediately admitted he was right. I gave a valid link, and I gave the a correct number of number of women dying in childbrith in America every year. My error was in calculating the percentage of those births to, and the errror was extremely blatant. If I had wanted to lie, I’d have lied better. ---
**Author:** ![jawdirk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/df705f/32.png) [@jawdirk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jawdirk)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2005, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-shouldnt-women-have-to-register-for-the-draft/336274/53 "2005-12-20T22:29:03Z")
> [@Maastricht](#): > > Mommies don’t get paid. Soldiers do. That’s because Mommies are serving themselves, not their country. If they were taking care of someone else’s kid they’d get paid plenty. The argument is absurd. Men and women have different roles in society as of now. But if some women want to forgo having children and/or go into service of the military, allowances should be made. Similarly, if some men don’t want to join the armed forces, they shouldn’t have to do that either. And if the government wants to penalize them for making those choices, with tax incentives or prison sentences, what can you do except vote them out if you don’t like it? But making the argument that the roles of childbirthing and military service are natural counterparts, and linked to the female/male dichotomy is just small minded. Merely disagreeing with that idea refutes it! I’m a man, and I don’t have to go to war, and you can’t make me! My friend G.I. Jane doesn’t want any kids, and she’s going to go out and kill people in the name of our country! You can’t reasonably say we shouldn’t, because we want to, and we can. That trumps any petty ideas about the role of X and Y. ---
**Author:** ![elfkin477](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a9a28c/32.png) [@elfkin477](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elfkin477)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2005, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-shouldnt-women-have-to-register-for-the-draft/336274/54 "2005-12-21T00:25:23Z")
> [@Polerius](#): > > You still have not addressed the fact that women _choose_ to have babies, they are not forced by the government. Women are not forced to have babies because they choose to have babies. Or enough of them do, anyway. If **no** women in a country (you can pick any one you like) chose to have babies, do you think the government would just shrug its shoulders and say “oh well, I guess our country is going to die out”? Or do you think something closer to\*\* A Handmaiden’s Tale\*\* would happen? Me, I think the latter is a safer bet than the former. If enough men choose to serve in the military to fulfill the “need” for able bodies, they don’t get drafted either. You’re just a lot more likely have fewer men choosing to serve than women choosing to have kids. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2005, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-shouldnt-women-have-to-register-for-the-draft/336274/55 "2005-12-21T00:48:23Z")
> [@elfkin477](#): > > If enough men choose to serve in the military to fulfill the “need” for able bodies, they don’t get drafted either. You’re just a lot more likely have fewer men choosing to serve than women choosing to have kids. Perhaps that’s because giving up your freedom and killing/ risking death is a bigger sacrifice than motherhood. Motherhood and soldiering just don’t have much in common. ---
**Author:** ![KellyM](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/57b2e6/32.png) [@KellyM](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KellyM)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2005, 5:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-shouldnt-women-have-to-register-for-the-draft/336274/56 "2005-12-21T05:42:40Z")
> [@alphaboi867](#): > > The Selective Service doesn’t recognize sex-changes. A transwoman must still register for SS even though she would not be drafted under current rules. The SS won’t catogorize (1F, 4F, 1A, etc) unless the draft is reinstated. And, indeed, I’m registered with Selective Service (although at 36 I am above the age where registration is required). Furthermore, a female-to-male transsexual may not register for selective service. This situation often results in a FTM being outed by the Selective Service when he applies for, inter alia, student financial aid: the applicant must either indicate that he is registered with Selective Service (a lie, which will result in disqualification) or that he is not registered with Selective Service (the truth, which will result in disqualification). The only way for a FTM to obtain student financial aid is to file a form indicating that he is not required to register for the Selective Service because the Selective Service insists that he is female. Said form can be obtained from the Selective Service after an inconvenient and intrusive interview process. ---
**Author:** ![Corrvin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/bbce88/32.png) [@Corrvin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Corrvin)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2005, 7:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-shouldnt-women-have-to-register-for-the-draft/336274/57 "2005-12-21T07:30:00Z")
> [@Mr. Moto](#): > > I believe special circumstances apply to **lee**. Or anyone else receiving financial aid. The current FAFSA application question 21 is: “Are you male?” If you are male, you basically have to prove in question 22 that _you absolutely can’t get a number_ (for instance, prove you are 17) in order to get through the process without providing it. (My school’s financial aid office demanded the actual number from my husband, a 27 year old veteran, and wouldn’t accept his DD-214.) If you are female, you just answer “no” to that question and get to skip question 22 without “proving” anything. Of course, if one was going through transition during college… whew, I can only imagine the fun that would be :rolleyes: **KellyM** , I don’t mean to discount your experiences by sayin’ they let me register with my girl parts; I’m certain someone was really asleep at the wheel the day they took my registration (since their site says women aren’t allowed to register). I wasn’t actually expecting them to register me; I was expecting to get to throw a fit cause they didn’t. Corr ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2005, 10:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-shouldnt-women-have-to-register-for-the-draft/336274/58 "2005-12-21T10:57:05Z")
> [@Maastricht](#): > > **Malacandra** , I am no liar and I don’t like to be called a liar. > > However, I am known, as sloppy and not very accurate with numbers, especially when I’m posting in a hurry before work. **Polerius** corrected me, more politely and more factually then you did, and I immediately admitted he was right. > I gave a valid link, and I gave the a correct number of number of women dying in childbrith in America every year. My error was in calculating the percentage of those births to, and the errror was extremely blatant. If I had wanted to lie, I’d have lied better. A Scotsman is someone from Scotland, whether or not he takes sugar on his porridge. But FWIW, I only called one statement of yours a big fat lie; I didn’t then, and do not now, imply that you lie on a regular basis. Still, if you want to cite numbers in an argument then it helps not to either be inadvertently out by a factor of 300 (it sounds even worse if you say "by 30,000%), or misleadingly post a percentage figure that doesn’t apply to the US next to an absolute figure that does. I mean, really, if 3% of live American births resulted in the death of the mother, can’t you imagine the screaming we’d be hearing? :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2005, 11:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-shouldnt-women-have-to-register-for-the-draft/336274/59 "2005-12-21T11:10:01Z")
> [@Corrvin](#): > > Or anyone else receiving financial aid. > > The current FAFSA application question 21 is: “Are you male?” > > If you are male, you basically have to prove in question 22 that _you absolutely can’t get a number_ (for instance, prove you are 17) in order to get through the process without providing it. (My school’s financial aid office demanded the actual number from my husband, a 27 year old veteran, and wouldn’t accept his DD-214.) That’s true for a lot of things. I had to provide my registration number to get a position with a government contractor. My veteran’s status meant nothing in this regard, either, because this is unrelated to actual military service. It is just another penalty designed to induce young men to register. ---
**Author:** ![Theobroma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b5a626/32.png) [@Theobroma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Theobroma)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2005, 12:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-shouldnt-women-have-to-register-for-the-draft/336274/60 "2005-12-21T12:04:37Z")
I am no expert on the draft…but don’t women preferentially get non-combat positions? Wouldn’t that leave fewer of those positions available for male draftees, who are then more likely to see combat? If I were a guy, I’m not sure whether I would prefer to have non-combat positions available to me (women not drafted), or to have my number half as likely to come up in the first place (women drafted). …or am I blowing smoke? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-shouldnt-women-have-to-register-for-the-draft/336274.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-shouldnt-women-have-to-register-for-the-draft/336274.md?page=4)