# Why so few African American social/subcultures compared to whites? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [January 21, 2009, 4:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-so-few-african-american-social-subcultures-compared-to-whites/482263 "2009-01-21T04:39:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Mr.Slant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c57346/32.png) [@Mr.Slant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Slant)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2009, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-so-few-african-american-social-subcultures-compared-to-whites/482263/21 "2009-01-21T19:38:20Z")
The OP just described the mannerisms of a number of my black friends in college that have never been arrested, and are now in respectable middle-class jobs. An outfit is just an outfit. Not every high school kid you meet with all-black clothes and weird hair actually worships Satan or contemplates suicide… ---
**Author:** ![HolyFreakingMoly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/7ba0ec/32.png) [@HolyFreakingMoly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HolyFreakingMoly)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2009, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-so-few-african-american-social-subcultures-compared-to-whites/482263/22 "2009-01-21T19:42:59Z")
> [@Rigamarole](#): > > I think this is more an issue of your perception and stereotyping tendencies than it has to do with any objective reality. This. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2009, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-so-few-african-american-social-subcultures-compared-to-whites/482263/23 "2009-01-21T20:25:59Z")
Quoth **Cisco** : > [@](#): > > Did you not notice that every musical style that Ro0sh mentioned was a type of rap? No soul, R&B, gospel, blues, jazz, motown, or rock and roll. I guess it’s possible that this was somehow part of his or her point and I misread it, but it seemed awful funny to me at first. And did you notice that every style that you mentioned is a type of melodic singing? Why should that seem any less funny than the plethora of non-melodic styles? ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2009, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-so-few-african-american-social-subcultures-compared-to-whites/482263/24 "2009-01-21T22:35:47Z")
> [@Rigamarole](#): > > I think this is more an issue of your perception and stereotyping tendencies than it has to do with any objective reality. Based on my own black friends and acquaintances (not to mention members of my extended family) I would agree with this. The supposed “observation” in the OP is due more to unfamiliarity with black culture (or rather cultures) than anything else. In any case, I don’t think there is any objective and factual way to answer this question, so it’s better suited to IMHO than GQ. Colibri General Questions Moderator ---
**Author:** ![Hippy\_Hollow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hippy_hollow/32/4841_2.png) [@Hippy\_Hollow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hippy_Hollow)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2009, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-so-few-african-american-social-subcultures-compared-to-whites/482263/25 "2009-01-21T23:33:13Z")
> [@madmonk28](#): > > I think that it is possible that you are less familiar with black people than white people and therefore do not notice distinctions. If I was observe people from a country I have never been to, I would not be able to pick up on the things that identify them as a members of a particular group, but someone familiar with that culture would have no problem making the distinctions. Yep. Let me think of say, the first 20 Black people I recall from high school/college. 1. Nerd 2. Jock 3. Student leader 4. Greek (fraternity/sorority) 5. Conscious (politically active) 6. Church boy/church girl 7. Punk 8. Grad school bound (different from nerd) 9. Video game junkie 10. Computer geek 11. Hip hopper (into rapping, dancing, arts) 12. Pan-Africanist 13. “Thug” - into gangsta rap, dresses the role, etc. 14. Sell out (really immersed into White culture) 15. Bourgie (someone obsessed with material wealth, think like Whitley Gilbert in A Different World) 16. Black Muslim 17. Pothead/stoner I think these are pretty robust categories (maybe the grad school one is a little broad). Of course they overlap. ---
**Author:** ![Jettboy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/85e7bf/32.png) [@Jettboy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jettboy)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2009, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-so-few-african-american-social-subcultures-compared-to-whites/482263/26 "2009-01-21T23:59:53Z")
If you live in South Florida, the huge amount of Caribbean islanders bring several new subcultures into play, like… The way too hip, poser Rasta guy The REAL Rasta guy The Island Mama The crazy-eyed, almost threatening Caribbean Jesus lover The rude boys just for starters. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2009, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-so-few-african-american-social-subcultures-compared-to-whites/482263/27 "2009-01-22T00:11:35Z")
You need to get out more. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2009, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-so-few-african-american-social-subcultures-compared-to-whites/482263/28 "2009-01-22T01:01:19Z")
The OP is kinda like asking, “Why do all black people look the same?” It’s all about perception and familiarity. You see two guys dressed in similar “urban” styles and think they belong to the same subculture. But that’s like seeing a skinny white guy dressed in khaki cutoffs and flip-flops and another skinny white guy dressed in blue jean cutoffs and Tevas and assuming they belong together. When really, the former is an Mormon engineering geek who plays tuba in the college marching band and the latter is an atheist liberal who writes purple prose and has a boyfriend. Because you “know” white people, you might be able to pick up on subtle behavioral/dress cues that distinguish the two. But because you don’t know black people, you can’t see the differences. ---
**Author:** ![ToeJam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/dfb087/32.png) [@ToeJam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ToeJam)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2009, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-so-few-african-american-social-subcultures-compared-to-whites/482263/29 "2009-01-22T01:33:46Z")
> [@Cisco](#): > > Did you not notice that **every** musical style that Ro0sh mentioned was a type of rap? No soul, R&B, gospel, blues, jazz, motown, or rock and roll. I guess it’s possible that this was somehow part of his or her point and I misread it, but it seemed awful funny to me at first. That is kind of the point. I know there’s PLENTY of other styles, but I’m not going to take the time to list EVERY Subculture of black culture that I know of. There’s plenty of variety and differences in something as generic as “Rap” so it’s easy to see that this could apply to others as well. But I’m also making the distinction that “Rap” in itself portrays a sense of culture. There are Rap styles that have their own CULTURE, dialects, and mannerisms and behaviors- so i’m not really referring to the music here, but the differences culturally between a person who identifies with the Bay Area Rap scene and someone who claims they come from NY’s Shaolin\* background vs. again someone who comes from the Dirty South. Sure, to the general layperson, you could say “oh, they’re all just Rap.” Or as the OP stated, “Oh, they’re all just thugs”. But there is a huge difference within each group from each other, and to simply state it’s all Rap, or it’s all “Thugs” is to be ignorant of the actual variety and differences within cultures. So yeah, I know there’s R&B and there’s plenty of others, but I’m just picking one thread, because that which i did for “rap” you can do for EACH of the others as well- I was just being more specific than you were. That’s all. Thanks for the help though, \*\*SquiDio \*\*and the others. 🙂 \*Okay, maybe the Shaolin long island subculture doesn’t really exist. But I still love hearing it. Wu! ---
**Author:** ![jali](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ecae2f/32.png) [@jali](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jali)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2009, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-so-few-african-american-social-subcultures-compared-to-whites/482263/30 "2009-01-22T02:17:34Z")
I hope OP, that this is a quest for knowledge. I’m trying not to get really angy at your (I’ll say instead of something negative) _uninformed_ position. Are guys in suits the good guys? Are they better than guys in low hanging jeans? Our IT guys have a dress code that looks nothing like the standard dress code in our building. I bet they make a lot more money and are better educated than some of the suits. I bet you’d consider them thugs at a glance. I have my hair in locs. Am I from Jamaica? Do I smoke weed and do I worship Ja?Could I be a well paid receptionist fora architectural firm? Could I be an artist or student or entrepreneur? A minister? I remember the Howard Beach trial. Every photo of the defendants showed them in suits on their way into court. How would you classify them? Preppy thugs who beat a stranded motorist to death or do you see college kids in trouble? Please take off the shades. Yes there are thugs out there, but there are many more young people quietly going about their lives in positive ways, who because of your perception, you’re unable to see. If a Rhodes Scholar wears a hoodie on his way to grab a cup of coffee (Hi VC03), in your eyes he’s a thug. This is why some young Black men are routinely stopped by the police for doing nothing unlawful. Perception. This is why “guilty of driving while Black” isn’t an urban legend - it’s a regular happening. I have to stop this, I’m getting pissed off again. Please excuse any typos or grammatical errors - I’m not going to read what I’ve written. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2009, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-so-few-african-american-social-subcultures-compared-to-whites/482263/31 "2009-01-22T17:15:43Z")
> [@Hippy\_Hollow](#): > > Yep. Let me think of say, the first 20 Black people I recall from high school/college. I don’t think my college had 20 black people. ☹ And what is “thuggish professional”? Yo playa! If we readjust our paradigm to reallocate vendor costs by marketing channel, we can totally incur a significant long term cost savins’! That’s a lota benjamins biatch!! ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2009, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-so-few-african-american-social-subcultures-compared-to-whites/482263/32 "2009-01-22T17:23:57Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Quoth **Cisco** :And did you notice that every style that you mentioned is a type of melodic singing? Why should that seem any less funny than the plethora of non-melodic styles? I don’t think you understood what I was saying. But then, I don’t think I understood what Ro0sh was saying either, so we’ll call it even :). > [@msmith537](#): > > And what is “thuggish professional”? > > Yo playa! If we readjust our paradigm to reallocate vendor costs by marketing channel, we can totally incur a significant long term cost savins’! That’s a lota benjamins biatch!! Basically, yes. I’ve worked with 2 of these guys. You spend a lot of time wondering why they’re not just selling drugs. ---
**Author:** ![Nzinga\_Seated](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b5ac83/32.png) [@Nzinga\_Seated](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nzinga_Seated)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2009, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-so-few-african-american-social-subcultures-compared-to-whites/482263/33 "2009-01-22T18:15:36Z")
> [@Jettboy](#): > > If you live in South Florida, the huge amount of Caribbean islanders bring several new subcultures into play, like… > > The way too hip, poser Rasta guy > The REAL Rasta guy > The Island Mama > The crazy-eyed, almost threatening Caribbean Jesus lover > The rude boys > > just for starters. Number 2 and 5 on your list are the ones that make my knees weak! Number one on your list wears their shirts too tight and their dreads are too ‘neat’. Nothing to do with anything, I know, but I couldn’t resist saying that I loves me some Rasta men! ---
**Author:** ![DianaG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7ab992/32.png) [@DianaG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DianaG)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2009, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-so-few-african-american-social-subcultures-compared-to-whites/482263/34 "2009-01-22T18:37:27Z")
> [@Freejooky](#): > > That’s an interesting example, because I did encounter that on my walk back to my workplace. I was following a couple of “thugs” - young black dudes walking with the slouch, wearing big baggy roca- stuff, one with a do-rag, the other with a bandana…and then they walked into the community college. I’d still call those guys thugs to differentiate from “student,” which refers to the backpack-toting, slightly preppy white that were also entering the building. So… white students in “preppy” attire are not part of your aforementioned “preps” but are a distinct group called “students”, yet black students in “thug” attire are somehow not “students” but covered under your “thugs” group? How exactly does that work? ---
**Author:** ![Freejooky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ba8739/32.png) [@Freejooky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freejooky)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2009, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-so-few-african-american-social-subcultures-compared-to-whites/482263/35 "2009-01-22T19:26:31Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > And what is “thuggish professional”? > > Yo playa! If we readjust our paradigm to reallocate vendor costs by marketing channel, we can totally incur a significant long term cost savins’! That’s a lota benjamins biatch!! Pretty much, actually. Guys that don’t realize that _Belly_ was a cautionary tale, that aspire to be the next hip hop business mogul a la Diddy, guys that think Fiddy and Game don’t look like clowns when dressed in a suit. Idea of “professional” is ostentatious and informed more by the Bernie Macs and pimps of the world, though they’re in a white collar environment where nobody will call them on the inappropriateness of it. ---
**Author:** ![DianaG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7ab992/32.png) [@DianaG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DianaG)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2009, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-so-few-african-american-social-subcultures-compared-to-whites/482263/36 "2009-01-22T19:43:24Z")
Do you realize that it sounds an awful lot like you’re implying that there are actually only two “African-American subcultures”, essentially consisting of “people who dress in a way I approve of” and “people who dress in a way I disapprove of”? ---
**Author:** ![Hippy\_Hollow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hippy_hollow/32/4841_2.png) [@Hippy\_Hollow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hippy_Hollow)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2009, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-so-few-african-american-social-subcultures-compared-to-whites/482263/37 "2009-01-22T21:55:02Z")
I do know a few Black colleagues (professors) that approach their craft like gangsters. They’re quite successful as well. One makes more from consulting, etc. than he does from his work in the academy. ---
**Author:** ![black\_rabbit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/f19dbf/32.png) [@black\_rabbit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/black_rabbit)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2009, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-so-few-african-american-social-subcultures-compared-to-whites/482263/38 "2009-01-22T22:10:54Z")
> [@Cisco](#): > > Did you not notice that **every** musical style that Ro0sh mentioned was a type of rap? > **[List of rock genres](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_rock_genres)** > > This is a list of rock music genres consisting of subgenres of popular music that have roots in 1940s and 1950s rock and roll, and which developed into a distinct identity as rock music in the 1960s, particularly in the United States and United Kingdom. By the late 1960s, a number of identifiable rock music subgenres had emerged, including hybrids like blues rock, folk rock, country rock, and jazz-rock fusion, many of which contributed to the development of psychedelic rock influenced by t ... ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Slant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c57346/32.png) [@Mr.Slant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Slant)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2009, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-so-few-african-american-social-subcultures-compared-to-whites/482263/39 "2009-01-22T22:22:51Z")
> [@Hippy\_Hollow](#): > > I do know a few Black colleagues (professors) that approach their craft like gangsters. They’re quite successful as well. One makes more from consulting, etc. than he does from his work in the academy. Interesting, but if running a business by being crafty, high-energy, manipulative and willing to run roughshod over the competition or community is gangster, there are a LOT of rich white guys in business that fit the bill. ---
**Author:** ![EpiGirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8c91f0/32.png) [@EpiGirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EpiGirl)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2009, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-so-few-african-american-social-subcultures-compared-to-whites/482263/40 "2009-01-22T22:48:33Z")
> [@Freejooky](#): > > Pretty much, actually. Guys that don’t realize that _Belly_ was a cautionary tale, that aspire to be the next hip hop business mogul a la Diddy, guys that think Fiddy and Game don’t look like clowns when dressed in a suit. Idea of “professional” is ostentatious and informed more by the Bernie Macs and pimps of the world, though they’re in a white collar environment where nobody will call them on the inappropriateness of it. Is there anything wrong with modeling oneself after Diddy, Russell Simmons, or other “hip-hop” entrepreneurs? They are sucessful black men. And how do you know what their motivations are for what they do? It appears that you and some others in this thread believe that if a black person injects a few slang words into their speech and and wears brands like Phat Pharm and Roc-a-wear or Avirex jackets they are one stumble away from full time employment as a street pharmacist.:rolleyes: [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-so-few-african-american-social-subcultures-compared-to-whites/482263.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-so-few-african-american-social-subcultures-compared-to-whites/482263.md?page=3)