A problem with swimming? I didn’t think that- more like a lack of opportunity/interest.
A greater cultural mystery to me is why there is a higher percentage of Mormons in SF than in big Army.
WAG: The LDS Church requirement of missionary work, so a higher % of young LDS may have foreign-language skills and be oriented towards interaction with other cultures, which are important specifically in Army Special Forces (Green Berets).
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I know for a fact that when IQ tests are used to qualify people, blacks are disproportionately kept out. That’s why most employers are not allowed to use IQ tests. It’s considered discriminatory.
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I also believe that some or all special forces have a minimum IQ requirement. This is what my buddy tells me, and it stands to reason. Apparently the military is not subject to the anti-discrimination laws.
So you would expect that any part of the military that has a high IQ score as a requirement would have very few blacks in it.
- Lo and behold, the special forces appear to have very few blacks. At least according to the original poster (and my buddy).
Given that known facts can account for at least some of the disparity, it’s worth considering.
That’s great. Cites please!
What’s your buddy’s unit and branch? I ask because I’m about to check what he told you with my brother (2/75 Rangers, and later 20th SF).
Do you know specifically what company and battalion in 20th he served?? And when?
psychloan, mental acuity tests are required for Special Forces–3 or 4 in fact-- but none is an IQ test. One is the ASVAB, which every enlisted soldier takes. A person must score 110 on the GT line. The second is the TABE B, Test of Adult Basic Education. Its the same TABE you would take for college or something. I dont think you have to score all that high. Maybe like a 10? Which is equivalent to a 10th grade education. The third test is the DLAB. Defense Language Aptitude Battery. It tests your potential to learn a foreign language and you have to score a certain level. If you score too low, then it’s believed that you could not learn a new language and you would not pass the DLPT, Defense Language Proficiency Test. It may be possible to go through the pipeline without taking the DLAB, but you must score a 1,1,1 on the DLPT before getting your SF Tab. The requirement used to only be a 0+, 0+ but it’s been raised to ensure operators have a decent understanding of their assigned language. So the standards are getting tougher.
I dont believe there is any GT requirement for Ranger Battalion. A 50% AFQT on the ASVAB should be it.
Yea, I’ve noticed the similarities you mention. I think that has a lot to do with it. I can’t help but think there might be more to it though.
There is also a disproportionate number of mormons in the CIA and FBI.
ODB 2070, 2nd battalion, 20th SF Group, deployed to Afghanistan in 2003, based for a while at Firebase Ghecko in Kandahar Province.
Damn, Bear_Nenno, you and I have the same birthday, albeit a number of years apart…
That sea isn’t nearly as white as you think it is. I think you might want to view the picture at it’s native resolution.
Its native resolution would also work if you don’t want to use it’s native resolution. 
I don’t know how to take that Lemur. Are you in the military and making that comment on things you have witnessed or is it just a guess? Are you saying black people are chicken or something?
Either way, as a black guy that is in the military, I’ve met a few black infantry guys. But I’m not one of them. The reason is simple, I didn’t want to be in the infantry. I had a trade when I joined up and it happened to be one that the army that also. So my motivation was really just job experience and wanting to see the world. (and I even got to see choice parts of the Middle East).
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I will question my buddy where his 115 figure comes from. Note that many types of test scores, especially intelligence tests, tend to correllate with IQ.
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It’s basically the premise of the thread.
When asked for a reason, every highspeed black infantry soldier I meet who says “No, I dont want to go to Ranger School” or “No, I’ve never been to Ranger School” has answered “I can’t swim.”
It’s always “I would have… but I can’t swim.”
And really there isn’t all that much swimming in SFAS or Ranger School or RIP. To really see the way swimming divides the Army, look at scuba school. How many black men in the entire Army have scuba bubbles? A half dozen maybe?
EJsGirl, yea me, you and swampbear are all 7/29. I was in A/3/20th in 2003. They went to Afgahnistan in 2002 but I didn’t go.
Run around in the woods wearing camoflauge and carrying rifles. Sleep beneath a canopy of trees and stars. Look for things hiding in the brush to shoot at. . .
If that doesn’t have “white boy” written all over it, I dont know what does.
But IIRC, the Ranger swim test is gruesome (or at least it used to be)- you walk around blindfolded, in full battle-rattle, and walk off the edge! :eek: Supposed to indicate how you might react to walking off the bank of a river at night…
You didn’t miss much, from what I hear. 
He’s been to Iraq twice as well. Actually, he just got back from your neck of the woods- Pathfinder School.
LOL. That’s the easy part.
The requirement to be able to do a water parachute landing was swimming 50m in full equipment and rifle, a dive and ditch (which was walking off a 10ft ledge blindfolded–but that part is easy cause all you do when you land is ditch all your gear and swim a couple feet back to the edge), and finally you have to swim beneath a submerged parachute, find the hole in the middle to take a breath, then swim the rest of the way out. Besides the 50m swim, none of it is at all physically difficult once a person gets past the fear factor.
But even a very athletic and unafraid person will be unable to complete the tasks if he simply can’t swim.
Nice. What’s his MOS?
My husband tried out for the Air Force special forces before we met, and didn’t make it because he couldn’t pass the swim test. He was a life guard and swim instructor for several years when he was younger, and is a very strong swimmer (he’s white). IIRC, he said it was about 2 hours of laps and what-not that had to be done after a series of other grueling land-based fitness tests. I don’t know about other special forces swimming tests, but the AF’s is tough.
No, I’ve never been in the military. It’s just a guess on my part. From my civilian work experience it seems to me that black guys tend to have a certain…I guess cynicism is close to what I mean. Not chicken, just not as likely to swallow propaganda as white guys are. Less willingness to believe that the boss is really a swell guy who has your best interests at heart when he asks you to do something spectacularly silly.