# why so few descendants of US presidents? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [August 11, 2019, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-so-few-descendants-of-us-presidents/838511 "2019-08-11T18:54:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![curwin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f05b48/32.png) [@curwin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/curwin)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2019, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-so-few-descendants-of-us-presidents/838511/1 "2019-08-11T18:54:03Z")
I admit that I haven’t done detailed research into this. But it seems strange to me that there seem to be far fewer descendants of US presidents than I would expect. I do a lot of genealogical research into my own family, and for most ancestors that I’ve found in the 1800s, I can often track hundreds or frequently thousands of descendants. I would assume that on average the elected presidents came from wealthy families, which had decent access to the best health care available at the time, and so their birthrate (and the birthrate of their descendants) would be higher than average. I know that there are no living ancestors of George Washington, James Madison, Andrew Jackson and Abraham Lincoln (and others mentioned[here](https://www.quora.com/Do-any-of-our-historic-US-presidents-have-any-living-descendants-What-are-they-doing-now)). Are they outliers? Is the number of presidents too small a set to be statistically significant? Any other reasons? ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2019, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-so-few-descendants-of-us-presidents/838511/2 "2019-08-11T19:00:00Z")
> [@](#): > > I know that there are no living ancestors of George Washington, James Madison, Andrew Jackson and Abraham Lincoln (and others mentioned here). I don’t think there are any living ancestors of any current or past President. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![curwin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f05b48/32.png) [@curwin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/curwin)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2019, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-so-few-descendants-of-us-presidents/838511/3 "2019-08-11T19:13:23Z")
Ha - ok, sorry about the mistake. (Can that be corrected to “no living descendants”?) ---
**Author:** ![bibliophage](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bibliophage/32/7615_2.png) [@bibliophage](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bibliophage)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2019, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-so-few-descendants-of-us-presidents/838511/4 "2019-08-11T19:33:19Z")
It may depend on whether you think adopted children and their descendants should count. It seems to me that the thinking has changed over the centuries. Washington legally adopted his wife’s orphaned grandson, George Washington Parke Custis, and GWPC has living descendants. Yet GW is often said to have had no descendants. On the other hand, no one seems to doubt that Michael Reagan is really and truly the child of Ronald Reagan, even though he is adopted. ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2019, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-so-few-descendants-of-us-presidents/838511/5 "2019-08-11T19:47:54Z")
> [@bibliophage](#): > > It may depend on whether you think adopted children and their descendants should count. It seems to me that the thinking has changed over the centuries. Washington legally adopted his wife’s orphaned grandson, George Washington Parke Custis, and GWPC has living descendants. Yet GW is often said to have had no descendants. On the other hand, no one seems to doubt that Michael Reagan is really and truly the child of Ronald Reagan, even though he is adopted. The descendants of Robert E. Lee are also descendants of George Washington Parke Custis, because Lee married Custis’s daughter, Mary Anna. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2019, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-so-few-descendants-of-us-presidents/838511/6 "2019-08-11T20:01:06Z")
> [@curwin](#): > > I know that there are no living ancestors of George Washington, James Madison, Andrew Jackson and Abraham Lincoln (and others mentioned[here](https://www.quora.com/Do-any-of-our-historic-US-presidents-have-any-living-descendants-What-are-they-doing-now)). > > Are they outliers? Is the number of presidents too small a set to be statistically significant? Any other reasons? First, I recall hearing somewhere that Washington was not able to father children - the children he helped raise were those of his wife from a prior marriage. So… no descendants because no swimmers. Lincoln had four children but only one lived to adulthood (well, OK two if you count 18 as adult, but Tad died at 18 without fathering any children). This was, unfortunately, not an terribly unusual occurrence prior to the 20th Century. Robert Todd had three children, two of which lived long enough to be adult. It seemed to be a pattern with the Lincoln descendants that they didn’t produce a lot of children and thus the line ended in 1985. Madison may have been sterile, like Washington, or his wife may have been infertile as she had on-going chronic health problems dating from before the time they met. Jackson is not known to have any biological descendants from his marriage, although both while his wife was alive and after he sure seemed willing to take people in and raise them (including, ironically, Native orphans). In the case of both Madison and Jackson there may be a bunch of _black_ descendants that have never been acknowledged as both were slave owners and had access to women not allowed to say no to them. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2019, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-so-few-descendants-of-us-presidents/838511/7 "2019-08-11T20:38:06Z")
> [@curwin](#): > > I know that there are no living ancestors of George Washington, James Madison, Andrew Jackson and Abraham Lincoln (and others mentioned[here](https://www.quora.com/Do-any-of-our-historic-US-presidents-have-any-living-descendants-What-are-they-doing-now)). > > Are they outliers? Is the number of presidents too small a set to be statistically significant? Any other reasons? The article says that thirty-five of the forty-four men who have been President have living descendants. That doesn’t sound too unusual. It also notes that the most recent President with no living descendants is McKinley; this probably reflects the fact that child mortality rates were significantly higher prior to the 20th century and that would have made family lines dying out more common. ---
**Author:** ![Aspidistra](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspidistra/32/3894_2.png) [@Aspidistra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspidistra)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2019, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-so-few-descendants-of-us-presidents/838511/8 "2019-08-11T21:24:36Z")
There’s survivor bias in your comparison of number of descendents of Presidents, with the people who are your own ancestors - those people have at least one descendent (you). People living a couple of hundred years ago would generally today have either zero descendents or lots - rarely just one or two. So your observations from your restricted pool of examples isn’t going to tell you anything much about how likely it is for a random person from any era to have absolutely no descendents today ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2019, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-so-few-descendants-of-us-presidents/838511/9 "2019-08-11T21:49:41Z")
I think the current occupant of the White House has lots more descendants than people realize. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2019, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-so-few-descendants-of-us-presidents/838511/10 "2019-08-11T21:59:42Z")
> [@](#): > > Quoth **Broomstick** : > > In the case of both Madison and Jackson there may be a bunch of black descendants that have never been acknowledged as both were slave owners and had access to women not allowed to say no to them. And Thomas Jefferson wasn’t mentioned, but it’s now almost certain that he has descendants via at least one of his slaves. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2019, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-so-few-descendants-of-us-presidents/838511/11 "2019-08-11T22:19:24Z")
I’m assuming that by “descended”, the OP means direct descendants. One can be related without being a descendant. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2019, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-so-few-descendants-of-us-presidents/838511/12 "2019-08-11T23:02:55Z")
> [@Chefguy](#): > > I’m assuming that by “descended”, the OP means direct descendants. One can be related without being a descendant. I share a great x grandfather with Lincoln. His 3rd great grandfather is my 6th great grandfather. ---
**Author:** ![Moriarty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/moriarty/32/49_2.png) [@Moriarty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moriarty)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2019, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-so-few-descendants-of-us-presidents/838511/13 "2019-08-11T23:04:06Z")
> [@Chefguy](#): > > I’m assuming that by “descended”, the OP means direct descendants. One can be related without being a descendant. Indeed, the internet routinely reminds me that actor Tom Hanks is a relative of Abraham Lincoln’s mother, Nancy Hanks. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2019, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-so-few-descendants-of-us-presidents/838511/14 "2019-08-11T23:53:47Z")
> [@Siam\_Sam](#): > > I think the current occupant of the White House has lots more descendants than people realize. To the best of my knowledge, Donald Trump has five children and nine grandchildren. Are you suggesting he has other, presumably illegitimate, descendants? I know there’s a rumor that he had a child with a maid who worked for him but no substantial evidence has been offered to support this. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2019, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-so-few-descendants-of-us-presidents/838511/15 "2019-08-12T01:27:48Z")
> [@Siam\_Sam](#): > > I think the current occupant of the White House has lots more descendants than people realize. **Moderator Note** Let’s keep the political potshots out of GQ. Stick to things that are factually substantiated. Colibri General Questions Moderator ---
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2019, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-so-few-descendants-of-us-presidents/838511/16 "2019-08-12T03:10:37Z")
John Tyler, our 10th president, had 15 children from two wives, the last one when he was in his 70s. That son also had two children when he was in his 70s himself who are still alive. > **[John Tyler](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Tyler)** > > John Tyler (March 29, 1790 – January 18, 1862) was the tenth president of the United States, serving from 1841 to 1845, after briefly holding office as the tenth vice president in 1841. He was elected vice president on the 1840 Whig ticket with President William Henry Harrison, succeeding to the presidency following Harrison's death 31 days after assuming office. Tyler was a stalwart supporter and advocate of states' rights, including regarding slavery, and he adopted nationalistic policies as... Correction: His 13th child, Lyon, was born when he was 63. He was the father of the two surviving grandsons. > **[Lyon Gardiner Tyler | Personal life](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lyon_Gardiner_Tyler#Personal_life)** > > Tyler married twice. His first wife was Anne Baker Tucker of Albemarle County, with whom he had three children: John Tyler; Elizabeth Gilmer Tyler; and Julia Gardiner Tyler Wilson, one of the founders of Kappa Delta. > Following Anne's death in 1921, Tyler married Sue Ruffin, who was 35 years his junior, They had three more children: Lyon Gardiner Tyler Jr. (1925–2020); Harrison Ruffin Tyler (born 1928); and Henry Tyler, who died in infancy. In late August 2018, Lyon Jr. participated in a reunion ... ---
**Author:** ![Horatio\_Hellpop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Horatio\_Hellpop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatio_Hellpop)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2019, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-so-few-descendants-of-us-presidents/838511/17 "2019-08-12T03:38:45Z")
There are apparently rifts within the Jefferson descendants. The white ones balked at recognizing Sally Hemings’s kin. “It’s not because we’re racists, it’s because we’re snobs.” A couple of Tafts have had very distinguished careers in public service. My brother served in the Navy, Vietnam-era, with a Roosevelt heir. Julie and David Eisenhower are parents (one daughter, an actress) and grandparents (one granddaughter). Caroline Kennedy Schlossberg has three children in their 20s, who were raised quite separately from Bobby and Ted’s freakshow grandkids. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2019, 4:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-so-few-descendants-of-us-presidents/838511/18 "2019-08-12T04:50:23Z")
> [@Horatio\_Hellpop](#): > > There are apparently rifts within the Jefferson descendants. The white ones balked at recognizing Sally Hemings’s kin. “It’s not because we’re racists, it’s because we’re snobs.” . Quite the opposite actually. > **[‘She Was Part of This Family’: Jefferson Descendants Reflect on Sally Hemings...](https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/16/us/jefferson-sally-hemings-descendants.html)** > > Many who trace their roots back to the enslaved community at Monticello are expected to attend the exhibit opening, along with some of Jefferson’s white descendants. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2019, 5:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-so-few-descendants-of-us-presidents/838511/19 "2019-08-12T05:07:01Z")
> [@curwin](#): > > I would assume that on average the elected presidents came from wealthy families, which had decent access to the best health care available at the time, and so their birthrate (and the birthrate of their descendants) would be higher than average. There’s several assumptions there. 1. that more expensive medical care was better. Not even true now, even less true before doctors started systematically washing their hands between patients. 2. that birthrate equals survival to adulthood. 3. that survival to adulthood equals reproduction. 4. that everybody involved was of normal or high fertility. My own paternal 1800 ancestor has barely a dozen descendants in my parent’s generation. There were generations when only one or two people got to adulthood, and several of these went into religious life so no descendants of their own. Move one over, to my paternal grandmother’s family, and that same generation has over one hundred people. Grandma’s family also had people go into religious life, but a similar amount thus a lower ratio. Two families from the same general area, same social class, completely different family sizes thanks to different fertility rates and different survival to adulthood rates. ---
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2019, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-so-few-descendants-of-us-presidents/838511/20 "2019-08-12T20:28:36Z")
> [@Horatio\_Hellpop](#): > > Julie and David Eisenhower are parents (one daughter, an actress) and grandparents (one granddaughter). They’re not the only two-presidents-as-ancestors children. There is another family out there who are descended from two 1800s POTUS’s, and they didn’t know this until they searched their family trees and were in for a VERY big surprise. They knew that there was a president in their genetic woodpile, but not exactly where or who until they did this search. I saw one interviewed on C-SPAN which is how I know this. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-so-few-descendants-of-us-presidents/838511.md?page=2)