# Why so few female jazz horn players?

**URL:** <https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-so-few-female-jazz-horn-players/491463>\
**Category:** Cafe Society\
**Created:** [March 31, 2009, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-so-few-female-jazz-horn-players/491463 "2009-03-31T17:16:34Z")\
**Posts on this page:** 2\
**Page:** 2

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**Author:** ![CookingWithGas](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cookingwithgas/32/485_2.png) [@CookingWithGas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CookingWithGas)\
**Post date:** [April 1, 2009, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-so-few-female-jazz-horn-players/491463/21 "2009-04-01T13:52:05Z")

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> [@Abby\_Emma\_Sasha](#):
>
> Let’s not forget the grossness factor. I played clarinet in high school band and I remember the horn players emptying their valves. Ick, it made me wanna puke. What chick wants to deal with that?

There is a popular misconception about that. When you blow into a horn, the moisture in your breath condenses inside. That’s what is coming out of the valve. Even though it’s called a “spit valve,” there’s no measurable spit.

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**Author:** ![Beware\_of\_Doug](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/278dde/32.png) [@Beware\_of\_Doug](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beware_of_Doug)\
**Post date:** [April 1, 2009, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-so-few-female-jazz-horn-players/491463/22 "2009-04-01T17:43:37Z")

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> [@Ukulele\_Ike](#):
>
> “Chicks can’t blow sax.” – Trombone player I knew back in '83.
> 
> Sexism, pure and simple. The world of the small jazz combo is STILL a boys’ club, and female interlopers are considered…weird.

Quoted for imperishable, ringing, rock-ribbed truth. (Jazz musician of some 25 years standing writing.)

The jazz community is remarkably uninterested in much of the rest of the art world’s - or the world’s - values. The ethic of jazz has changed but little in half a century. It is a lot like the skilled craft ethic: both are founded on rigor, individuality, scarcity of work, and individual competitiveness. These just happen to be circumstances that favor male psyches over female.

Supporting my theory, I think, is the fact that most every jazz combo with more than _one_ female is _all_-female. They just have a better chance at a. staying together and b. getting recognized that way - same as it was 70-80 years ago.

I don’t see any of this changing, BTW. Beyond urban activism or a sort of fuzzy multiculturalism, most jazz musicians (as I said) are uninterested.

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