# Why So Few Surviving Veterans of Spanish Civil War **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [February 5, 2011, 4:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-so-few-surviving-veterans-of-spanish-civil-war/570256 "2011-02-05T04:33:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2011, 4:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-so-few-surviving-veterans-of-spanish-civil-war/570256/1 "2011-02-05T04:33:27Z")
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List\_of\_surviving\_veterans\_of\_the\_Spanish\_Civil\_War](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_surviving_veterans_of_the_Spanish_Civil_War) Why are there so few surviving veterans of the Spanish Civil War? After all most of them are not over a 100 but still in their 90s? Hadn’t a few hundred thousand soldiers or so fight in that war so shouldn’t the number of survivors still be several hundreds or even the low thousands? ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2011, 4:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-so-few-surviving-veterans-of-spanish-civil-war/570256/2 "2011-02-05T04:45:39Z")
Probably a lot of the survivors then lost their lives in WW2. Generalissimo Francisco Franco is still dead. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2011, 4:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-so-few-surviving-veterans-of-spanish-civil-war/570256/3 "2011-02-05T04:53:54Z")
> [@runner pat](#): > > Probably a lot of the survivors then lost their lives in WW2. That would be my guess. Though Spain was technically a neutral state in WWII, both sides in the Spanish Civil War were reinforced by troops from countries which did fight in WWII. In addition, it sounds like both sides in the Spanish war engaged in purges, which would have also cut down on the number of surviving veterans. ---
**Author:** ![Martini\_Enfield](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/martini_enfield/32/11123_2.png) [@Martini\_Enfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martini_Enfield)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2011, 4:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-so-few-surviving-veterans-of-spanish-civil-war/570256/4 "2011-02-05T04:57:37Z")
> [@runner pat](#): > > Probably a lot of the survivors then lost their lives in WW2. Spain was neutral in WWII, so the Spanish Veterans of the Civil War wouldn’t likely have been involved there (outside a few individuals choosing to join foreign military units, perhaps) It’s worth remembering that the Republican (losing) side were… not well treated by the Nationalist (Franco’s) side afterwards, and the other thing to bear in mind is that the Spanish Civil War was over 70 years ago. Most, if not all, Veterans of the war would be in their 90s now. It’s also quite probable that a lot of the veterans don’t particularly want to talk about their experiences, and that even if they did, it’d be in the Spanish media, which most English-speakers aren’t likely to be reading. If you’re interested in a good book on the Spanish Civil War though, you really can’t go past Antony Beevor’s extremely readable _The Battle For Spain: The Spanish Civil War 1936-1939_, which is, IMHO, the best overview of the subject you’re likely to find. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2011, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-so-few-surviving-veterans-of-spanish-civil-war/570256/5 "2011-02-05T15:00:55Z")
Keep in mind the Spanish Civil War was a relatively small war. There were only about a few hundred thousand surviving veterans at the end of the war in comparison to the tens of millions of surviving WWII veterans. ---
**Author:** ![AuntiePam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f19dbf/32.png) [@AuntiePam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AuntiePam)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2011, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-so-few-surviving-veterans-of-spanish-civil-war/570256/6 "2011-02-05T17:43:46Z")
My boss at Neighborhood House in Seattle in the late 60’s/early 70’s was in the Abraham Lincoln Brigade. [Here’s his obituary.](http://www.alba-valb.org/volunteers/robert-lee-reed) He was quite a guy. I remember him taking a handgun away from a kid who had just shot at his girlfriend’s feet. I was shaking like a leaf but he was calm and cool. He was quietly radical (“People shouldn’t have to pay food, that’s like paying for air!”), and an excellent writer. ---
**Author:** ![Baron\_Greenback](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baron_greenback/32/48_2.png) [@Baron\_Greenback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baron_Greenback)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2011, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-so-few-surviving-veterans-of-spanish-civil-war/570256/7 "2011-02-05T20:21:23Z")
> [@Martini\_Enfield](#): > > If you’re interested in a good book on the Spanish Civil War though, you really can’t go past Antony Beevor’s extremely readable _The Battle For Spain: The Spanish Civil War 1936-1939_, which is, IMHO, the best overview of the subject you’re likely to find. Also, of course, Orwell’s _Homage to Catalonia_. It’s more journalism than a grand history obviously, but the man could write. Also, Hemingway. ---
**Author:** ![China\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/779978/32.png) [@China\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/China_Guy)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2011, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-so-few-surviving-veterans-of-spanish-civil-war/570256/8 "2011-02-06T02:17:58Z")
Paging Nava and other Spanish dopers for insights ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2011, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-so-few-surviving-veterans-of-spanish-civil-war/570256/9 "2011-02-06T21:18:51Z")
> [@AuntiePam](#): > > He was quietly radical (“People shouldn’t have to pay food, that’s like paying for air!”), and an excellent writer. How did he plan on getting people to grow food when there was no prospect of being paid? Reinstitute slavery? ---
**Author:** ![Martini\_Enfield](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/martini_enfield/32/11123_2.png) [@Martini\_Enfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martini_Enfield)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2011, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-so-few-surviving-veterans-of-spanish-civil-war/570256/10 "2011-02-07T00:16:15Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > How did he plan on getting people to grow food when there was no prospect of being paid? Reinstitute slavery? Not the anecdote sharer here, but one assumes that it was some sort of “The State will pay the farmer’s wages and they’ll distribute the food free of charge” idea, as obviously impractical as that might be. ---
**Author:** ![Dissonance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/85f322/32.png) [@Dissonance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dissonance)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2011, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-so-few-surviving-veterans-of-spanish-civil-war/570256/11 "2011-02-07T00:35:01Z")
> [@Martini\_Enfield](#): > > Spain was neutral in WWII, so the Spanish Veterans of the Civil War wouldn’t likely have been involved there (outside a few individuals choosing to join foreign military units, perhaps) 45,000 served in the [Blue Division](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_Division) on the Eastern Front actually. ---
**Author:** ![Claverhouse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/13edae/32.png) [@Claverhouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Claverhouse)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2011, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-so-few-surviving-veterans-of-spanish-civil-war/570256/12 "2011-02-07T00:35:33Z")
Hugh Thomas offered a good liberal overview in The Spanish Civil War. I’ve never forgotten the story of a rather horrible stalinist torturer being met by chance by other leftists in a French cemetery after the war. They left him there: buried alive. [Though, according to \*\*[Wiki](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Terror_%28Spain%29)\*\*on the Red Terror aspect leftists had sometimes forced priests to dig their own graves before burying them alive: I never understand what reasoning makes someone accede to saving the executioners the bother. I hate digging, and whatta-they-gonna-do ? Kill one ? ] As to the OP. Most people don’t reach the 90s, and most of the significant fighters would have been in their 30’s or 40s during the war. ---
**Author:** ![Beware\_of\_Doug](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/278dde/32.png) [@Beware\_of\_Doug](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beware_of_Doug)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2011, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-so-few-surviving-veterans-of-spanish-civil-war/570256/13 "2011-02-07T00:40:24Z")
In addition to so few Spanish vets being around, consider that the war itself - and the era - has receded dramatically in relevance. Of the people who were of age in the 1930s, so many are gone now that those years are really no longer part of the collective memory. WW2 is now the dawn of “living” history - which is the only meaningful history to most people. ---
**Author:** ![detop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/bcef8e/32.png) [@detop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/detop)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2011, 1:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-so-few-surviving-veterans-of-spanish-civil-war/570256/14 "2011-02-07T01:06:59Z")
Also, there were not that many people who served in the International Brigades [(see here)](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Brigades_data). ---
**Author:** ![AuntiePam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f19dbf/32.png) [@AuntiePam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AuntiePam)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2011, 3:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-so-few-surviving-veterans-of-spanish-civil-war/570256/15 "2011-02-07T03:27:22Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > How did he plan on getting people to grow food when there was no prospect of being paid? Reinstitute slavery? Hell, I don’t know. I don’t remember the context of the comment, whether it was rhetorical, or in response to a cut in the food stamp program, or in support of the free breakfast program the Black Panthers were doing at the center. I’ve just always remembered the comment, because it made sense at the time. It **was** the 60’s. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Claverhouse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/13edae/32.png) [@Claverhouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Claverhouse)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2011, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-so-few-surviving-veterans-of-spanish-civil-war/570256/16 "2011-02-07T03:36:22Z")
> [@Beware\_of\_Doug](#): > > WW2 is now the dawn of “living” history - which is the only meaningful history to most people. Next stop Korea ! Which no-one really thinks about anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2011, 7:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-so-few-surviving-veterans-of-spanish-civil-war/570256/17 "2011-02-07T07:35:04Z")
Ehm… pretty much any Spaniard over age 90 (and some younger ones) is a veteran of the Spanish Civil War. But most of them haven’t gotten their name on Wikipedia. I have three living relatives who served in the war, but neither appears. I don’t see the name of my cousin’s gudari gramps either. I suspect the lists of foreigners are equally incomplete. IOW, that list is shit. ---
**Author:** ![Capitaine\_Zombie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e95f7d/32.png) [@Capitaine\_Zombie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capitaine_Zombie)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2011, 7:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-so-few-surviving-veterans-of-spanish-civil-war/570256/18 "2011-02-07T07:43:20Z")
> [@Martini\_Enfield](#): > > Spain was neutral in WWII, so the Spanish Veterans of the Civil War wouldn’t likely have been involved there (outside a few individuals choosing to join foreign military units, perhaps) > > It’s worth remembering that the Republican (losing) side were… not well treated by the Nationalist (Franco’s) side afterwards, and the other thing to bear in mind is that the Spanish Civil War was over 70 years ago. Most, if not all, Veterans of the war would be in their 90s now. > > It’s also quite probable that a lot of the veterans don’t particularly want to talk about their experiences, and that even if they did, it’d be in the Spanish media, which most English-speakers aren’t likely to be reading. > > If you’re interested in a good book on the Spanish Civil War though, you really can’t go past Antony Beevor’s extremely readable _The Battle For Spain: The Spanish Civil War 1936-1939_, which is, IMHO, the best overview of the subject you’re likely to find. The Free French forces had Spanish Republicans units, in almost every battle the FF were in, you’ll see the names of those Spanish Republicans. ---
**Author:** ![Martini\_Enfield](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/martini_enfield/32/11123_2.png) [@Martini\_Enfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martini_Enfield)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2011, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-so-few-surviving-veterans-of-spanish-civil-war/570256/19 "2011-02-08T03:14:09Z")
> [@Capitaine\_Zombie](#): > > The Free French forces had Spanish Republicans units, in almost every battle the FF were in, you’ll see the names of those Spanish Republicans. Quite possibly, but for the most part, the “Veterans” of the Spanish Civil War- as **Nava** notes- were pretty much every “adult” male in the country. The numbers of young men who decided to go and fight with the Free French or the Germans were obviously higher than “none” but not nearly at the “Most of them” levels implied by someone earlier.