# Why so few women/minorities among Nobel Prize Winners **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 3, 2006, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-so-few-women-minorities-among-nobel-prize-winners/363002 "2006-07-03T02:36:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Gestalt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/90ced4/32.png) [@Gestalt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gestalt)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2006, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-so-few-women-minorities-among-nobel-prize-winners/363002/1 "2006-07-03T02:36:34Z")
I was recently perusing a [list](http://nobelprize.org/nobel_prizes/lists/all/) of all the nobel prize winners, and while I wasn’t suprised at the plethora of white males in the earlier parts of the 20th century, it surprised me quite a bit that even from the 1970’s on there were very few women. Also, I assumed that in the last 3-4 decades or so, Asians would be very well represented among the science winners, which is also not the case. Furthermore, it seems that most of the winners in recent decades are Europeans, especially in the sciences, which suprised me because I thought that the mega-institutions in the U.S. (Cal Tech, MIT, and such) churned out most of the global scientific breakthroughs. So why is this? I know the Nobel committee has a reputation for being biased, but actually I thought thier bias went in the opposite direction of what this data seems to show; that is, I thought they were often accused of being “too PC” and awarding awards to women and minorities when actually white males deserved them more. Furthermore, are they known for having a bias towards Europeans over North Americans? Or, really, have the major contributions in all the areas except Peace (in which there is a fair share of women and minorities) been made by white male Europeans? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2006, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-so-few-women-minorities-among-nobel-prize-winners/363002/2 "2006-07-03T03:14:36Z")
It is because, historically, up to about 1970, only white males have been allowed the opportunity to fully develop their potential as contributors to society or to any field of science or scholarship. 100 or even 20 years from now, the thread title will appear anachronistic, and meaningless except for historical purposes. ---
**Author:** ![Gestalt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/90ced4/32.png) [@Gestalt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gestalt)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2006, 3:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-so-few-women-minorities-among-nobel-prize-winners/363002/3 "2006-07-03T03:18:13Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > It is because, historically, up to about 1970, only white males have been allowed the opportunity to fully develop their potential as contributors to society or to any field of science or scholarship. > > 100 or even 20 years from now, the thread title will appear anachronistic, and meaningless except for historical purposes. Right, but let’s say women were first able to develop their academic potentials beginning in the 1970’s, and around that time minorities internationally also began to compete for the scientific/academic spotlight; why is it that in the 30 years since then there are still so few women/minorities among the science winners? That was my primary question ---
**Author:** ![Gestalt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/90ced4/32.png) [@Gestalt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gestalt)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2006, 3:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-so-few-women-minorities-among-nobel-prize-winners/363002/4 "2006-07-03T03:26:21Z")
> [@Gestalt](#): > > Right, but let’s say women were first able to develop their academic potentials beginning in the 1970’s, and around that time minorities internationally also began to compete for the scientific/academic spotlight; why is it that in the 30 years since then there are still so few women/minorities among the science winners? That was my primary question Upon further exploration of the Nobel prize site, it appears that the people with primary nominating power seem to be professors at the Royal Academy of Sweden, and professors at other scandanavian university. Which might explain why every other person who wins a nobel prize seems to be from Denmark or some such. Still, other opinions, Dopers? ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2006, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-so-few-women-minorities-among-nobel-prize-winners/363002/5 "2006-07-03T03:28:11Z")
> [@Gestalt](#): > > why is it that in the 30 years since then there are still so few women/minorities among the science winners? That was my primary question Because it takes more than 30 years to bring an entire class of people to the elite level of the scientific world. Simply opening the doors of the university to women/minorities doesn’t mean that the first small crop will be welcomed with open arms. They have no support infrastuctor or mentors, it’s difficult to break the “old boy’s” network. There are few role models. Also, it takes many years after a discovery or breakthrough to recognize that the work is worthy. The work that people are receiving Nobel Prizes for was done many years ago. ---
**Author:** ![Shalmanese](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/45deac/32.png) [@Shalmanese](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shalmanese)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2006, 3:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-so-few-women-minorities-among-nobel-prize-winners/363002/6 "2006-07-03T03:43:07Z")
The nobel prize is notoriously conservative and only recognises the work of people many years after it has been developed and the scientific impact is clear. Thus, it wouldn’t be surprising that it the full effects of modern participation by asians and women haven’t been reflected in the nobel prizes yet. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2006, 3:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-so-few-women-minorities-among-nobel-prize-winners/363002/7 "2006-07-03T03:45:36Z")
> [@Shalmanese](#): > > The nobel prize is notoriously conservative . . . Cite? ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2006, 4:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-so-few-women-minorities-among-nobel-prize-winners/363002/8 "2006-07-03T04:16:42Z")
Haven’t a lot of Jews won the Nobel Prize? I would think they qualify as minorities. Marc ---
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2006, 4:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-so-few-women-minorities-among-nobel-prize-winners/363002/9 "2006-07-03T04:28:16Z")
Let’s split this up into the years 1901 through 1981 and the years 1982 through 2005. That’s a little more than three times as long a period for the 1901-1981 era as for the 1982-2005 era. Look at the number of women winners in each era: Physics: 2 in the earlier era and 0 in the later era Chemistry: 3 in the earlier era and 0 in the later era Physiology or Medicine: 2 in the earlier era and 5 in the later era Literature: 6 in the earlier era and 4 in the later era Peace: 6 in the earlier era and 6 in the later era Given that the earlier era is over three times as long, it’s clear that women are distinctly better represented in the later era for Physiology or Medicine, Literature, and Peace than in the early era. So in those fields, it is clear that women are now more likely to win Nobel Prizes than they used to be, although they aren’t yet equally represented among the winners. There are so few women winners in Physics or in Chemistry that the split in numbers here doesn’t indicate anything. It appears to me from the announcements of Nobel Prize winners that I’ve heard that the winners tend to be fifty-ish and to have done their most important work about ten years before the prize is given. So the winners this year, if they are about 55, will have entered college in about 1969. In 1969, law schools and medical schools tended to have about 5% women in their classes, as opposed to about 45% today. I believe that grad schools in many scientific subjects had porportionately as much increase, although the proportions started lower, about 3% in many sciences in 1969 as opposed to 25% today. It’s still a little early to expect to see the influx of large numbers of women reflected in the Nobel Prizes as yet. ---
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2006, 4:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-so-few-women-minorities-among-nobel-prize-winners/363002/10 "2006-07-03T04:33:52Z")
Furthermore, the universities and other research institutions in the U.S. are very well represented, especially after World War II. In the link, click on Prize Winners and Universities. Look at how many American universities and other research institutions are represented. ---
**Author:** ![Shalmanese](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/45deac/32.png) [@Shalmanese](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shalmanese)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2006, 1:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-so-few-women-minorities-among-nobel-prize-winners/363002/11 "2006-07-03T13:23:38Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Cite? Uh, maybe that was a bit of a misunderstanding. I don’t mean conservative in the political sense but that they are very cautious about giving out prizes until well after the scientific impact is clearly established. Looking though a quick summary of [Nobel Physics Prizes](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nobel_Prize_in_Physics#2000s) 2004: > [@](#): > > The fact that asymptotic freedom is a feature of quantum chromodynamics (QCD), the quantum field theory of the interactions of quarks and gluons, was discovered by David Gross, Frank Wilczek, and David Politzer in **1973**. For their discovery, Gross, Wilczek and Politzer were awarded the Nobel Prize in Physics in **2004**. 2003: > [@](#): > > In **1952** , Abrikosov discovered the way in which magnetic flux can penetrate a superconductor. The phenomenon is known as type-II superconductivity, and the accompanying arrangement of magnetic flux lines is called the Abrikosov vortex lattice…He was the co-recipient of the **2003** Nobel Prize in Physics, with Vitaly Ginzburg and Anthony James Leggett. 2002: > [@](#): > > The Homestake Experiment (sometimes referred to as the Davis Experiment) was an experiment headed by astrophysicists Raymond Davis, Jr. and John Bacall in the **late 1960’s** … [Raymond Davis Jr]shared the Nobel Prize in Physics in **2002** with Japanese physicist Masatoshi Koshiba and American Riccardo Giacconi for pioneering contributions to astrophysics, in particular for the detection of cosmic neutrinos, looking at the solar neutrino problem in the Homestake Experiment. Similar trends are evident in different fields as well. ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2006, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-so-few-women-minorities-among-nobel-prize-winners/363002/12 "2006-07-03T14:33:16Z")
Maybe we were too busy just sittin’ there lookin’ pretty. (Is my lipstick on straight?) ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2006, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-so-few-women-minorities-among-nobel-prize-winners/363002/13 "2006-07-03T14:41:03Z")
> [@Gestalt](#): > > I know the Nobel committee has a reputation for being biased, but actually I thought thier bias went in the opposite direction of what this data seems to show; that is, I thought they were often accused of being “too PC” and awarding awards to women and minorities when actually white males deserved them more. I’m interested in learning where you got this idea from. Can you cite examples of these accusations taking place? I have never heard of the Nobel committee being PC but I wouldn’t be surprised if they had that reputation just for the fact that there’s Europeans in it. The UN is treated the same way. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2006, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-so-few-women-minorities-among-nobel-prize-winners/363002/14 "2006-07-03T14:53:08Z")
> [@you with the face](#): > > I’m interested in learning where you got this idea from. Can you cite examples of these accusations taking place? [See this thread.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=279912) ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2006, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-so-few-women-minorities-among-nobel-prize-winners/363002/15 "2006-07-03T15:05:00Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > [See this thread.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=279912) Who was arguing that white guys were more deserving in that thread? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2006, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-so-few-women-minorities-among-nobel-prize-winners/363002/16 "2006-07-03T15:21:27Z")
> [@you with the face](#): > > Who was arguing that white guys were more deserving in that thread? Nobody in those terms exactly, but there were accusations of PCness. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2006, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-so-few-women-minorities-among-nobel-prize-winners/363002/17 "2006-07-03T15:46:25Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Nobody in those terms exactly, but there were accusations of PCness. I sensed it was because of the limp-wristed, Burkenstock image associated with the category (Peace Prize), not because a black woman undeservedly was selected as the winner. Really, I wish folks would think a little bit before they call something PC. All too often it comes across as code for “any outcome, policy, or terminology that offends me for reasons that I can’t cogently articulate but all’s I suspect is that it’s got something to do with appeasing those women and minorities, and therefore its bad”. When that charge is just thrown out there without any support its extra aggravating. ---
**Author:** ![Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e480ec/32.png) [@Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Least_Original_User_Name_Ever)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2006, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-so-few-women-minorities-among-nobel-prize-winners/363002/18 "2006-07-03T16:35:50Z")
Because they are dumb. Thats why. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2006, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-so-few-women-minorities-among-nobel-prize-winners/363002/19 "2006-07-03T16:36:32Z")
[nitpick] Aren’t Europeans minorities, considered as part of the whole world’s population? [/nitpick] ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2006, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-so-few-women-minorities-among-nobel-prize-winners/363002/20 "2006-07-03T20:46:11Z")
> [@Shalmanese](#): > > they are very cautious about giving out prizes until well after the scientific impact is clearly established. Had I to guess, I’d say the groundbreaking work of Subrahmanyan Chandrasekhar in 1930 getting him a Nobel in physics in 1983 is the longest such delay. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-so-few-women-minorities-among-nobel-prize-winners/363002.md?page=2)