# Why so many lies about Trump? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 11, 2015, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-so-many-lies-about-trump/740145 "2015-12-11T03:46:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2015, 5:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-so-many-lies-about-trump/740145/21 "2015-12-11T05:33:55Z")
> [@tullsterx](#): > > Why do so many feel compelled to lie about what Trump says? > > Sanders said on The Tonight Show about Trump "first he tells us to hate Mexicans, now he’s telling us to hate Muslims. . . " That’s a complete and total lie. Trump never said anything close to that. Let’s try to engage this for a moment. Trump’s rhetoric, throughout the entire campaign, has been based around, “These people are dangerous, these people are taking your opportunities, _this must be stopped_.” Mexicans are bringing rapists, murderers, and drug dealers over the border. Muslims are terrorists and need to put on registries or be barred from entering the country. This isn’t exactly “telling us to hate them”, per se, but it does paint a picture by which these people are dangerous and must be stopped, and providing ideas on how that stopping should be done. It’s _classic_ incitement. If you want someone to hate a group, you can’t just tell them, “Hate this group”, you have to give them reasons to do so. And Trump has been doing that at length. And it’s not like these speech patterns are unknown, either. It’s easy to go back through history and look at previous demagogues, and see the strong and ominous parallels, in [what is said and how it is said](http://www.nytimes.com/2015/12/06/us/politics/95000-words-many-of-them-ominous-from-donald-trumps-tongue.html). So when Sanders calls Trump out, there’s a very good reason. Yes, we can’t quote Trump saying, “Hate Mexicans! Hate Muslims!” (If we could, it wouldn’t work very well!) But the subtext is there and _blatantly obvious_. Just for comparison: what **Adaher** proposed is complete nonsense. Sanders’s ethos has not been “we need to threaten and silence and attack this vulnerable minority”. To any degree which his campaign has been on the warpath against any demographic, that demographic is by far strong enough to fight its own battles, and he hasn’t been advocating things like “a registry of the super-rich” or “barring the super-rich from entering the country”; he’s simply advocating a slightly more progressive tax plan - the kind of thing the rich have to put up with all over the world. ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2015, 5:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-so-many-lies-about-trump/740145/22 "2015-12-11T05:34:44Z")
Even putting aside his racist comments, he’s a piece of shit for repeatedly talking about how he lusts for his daughter. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2015, 5:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-so-many-lies-about-trump/740145/23 "2015-12-11T05:39:11Z")
> [@tullsterx](#): > > Why do so many feel compelled to lie about what Trump says? > > Sanders said on The Tonight Show about Trump "first he tells us to hate Mexicans, now he’s telling us to hate Muslims. . . " That’s a complete and total lie. Trump never said anything close to that. > **[Donald Trump: 'The Mexican government ... they send the bad ones over'](https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2015/aug/06/donald-trump/trump-mexican-government-they-send-bad-ones-over/)** > > In the first Republican primary debate of the 2016 presidential race, billionaire developer Donald Trump -- the leader i > [@](#): > > Our ruling > > Trump said, “The Mexican government … they send the bad ones over.” Setting aside the question of whether Mexicans who have come to the United States are “bad” or not, we found no evidence of any Mexican policy that pushes people out of Mexico and into the United States. As has been the case for decades, a combination of economic and family factors accounts for most of the migration from Mexico to the United States. For the second time, we rate this claim Pants on Fire. > [@tullsterx](#): > > And this happens very frequently and from many quarters. > > I wonder why? I mean, there are many legitimate reasons to dislike Donald Trump, why lie about what he said and discredit yourself? Trump is the one who as dome most of the discredit himself. > [@tullsterx](#): > > And this is happening on the right and the left. And is bolstering Trumps popularity. Among the low information voters and the discord ones yes, but not really with the majority of the voters. > **[Dear Media, Stop Freaking Out About Donald Trump’s Polls](https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/dear-media-stop-freaking-out-about-donald-trumps-polls/)** > > Lately, pundits and punters seem bullish on Donald Trump, whose chances of winning the Republican presidential nomination recently inched above 20 percent for t… > [@](#): > > One problem with this is that it’s not enough for Trump to merely avoid fading. \*\*Right now, he has 25 to 30 percent of the vote in polls among the roughly 25 percent of Americans who identify as Republican. (That’s something like 6 to 8 percent of the electorate overall, or about the same share of people who think the Apollo moon landings were faked.) \*\*As the rest of the field consolidates around him, Trump will need to gain additional support to win the nomination. That might not be easy, since some Trump actions that appeal to a faction of the Republican electorate may alienate the rest of it. Trump’s favorability ratings are middling among Republicans (and awful among the broader electorate). > > Trump will also have to get that 25 or 30 percent to go to the polls. For now, most surveys cover Republican-leaning adults or registered voters, rather than likely voters. Combine that with the poor response rates to polls and the fact that an increasing number of polls use nontraditional sampling methods, and it’s not clear how much overlap there is between the people included in these surveys and the relatively small share of Republicans who will turn up to vote in primaries and caucuses. > > But there’s another, more fundamental problem. That 25 or 30 percent of the vote isn’t really Donald Trump’s for the keeping. In fact, it doesn’t belong to any candidate. If past nomination races are any guide, the vast majority of eventual Republican voters haven’t made up their minds yet. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2015, 5:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-so-many-lies-about-trump/740145/24 "2015-12-11T05:45:03Z")
The OP has a point. None of us, including Bernie Sanders, can know what Donald Trump truly believes. We can observe that Trump says hateful things about Muslims and Mexicans but we can’t know that he genuinely hates them. Trump may be feigning his hatred because he believes there is a significant number of voters who hate these people and he’s trying to win their support. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2015, 5:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-so-many-lies-about-trump/740145/25 "2015-12-11T05:54:13Z")
> [@tullsterx](#): > > Another lie, Trump is not a “piece of shit” I’m pretty sure. You’re wrong. And please, don’t call me a liar unless you can substantiate it. > [@](#): > > I doubt he would make a good President. But, you guys are really promoting him. No, I’m stating plain what wretched filth he is. ---
**Author:** ![Merneith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/57b2e6/32.png) [@Merneith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merneith)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2015, 5:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-so-many-lies-about-trump/740145/26 "2015-12-11T05:57:39Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > The OP has a point. None of us, including Bernie Sanders, can know what Donald Trump truly believes. We can observe that Trump says hateful things about Muslims and Mexicans but we can’t know that he genuinely hates them. Trump may be feigning his hatred because he believes there is a significant number of voters who hate these people and he’s trying to win their support. Sanders’ didn’t say a word about what Trump believes in his heart. He observed, correctly, that Trump was telling us to hate the Mexicans and the Muslims. The OP is just trying to obfuscate Trump’s own lies and hatefulness. ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2015, 5:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-so-many-lies-about-trump/740145/27 "2015-12-11T05:59:51Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > The OP has a point. None of us, including Bernie Sanders, can know what Donald Trump truly believes. We can observe that Trump says hateful things about Muslims and Mexicans but we can’t know that he genuinely hates them. Sanders _didn’t_ make any claims about Trump’s genuine beliefs. Only about his rhetoric, his strategy, and his effect. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2015, 6:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-so-many-lies-about-trump/740145/28 "2015-12-11T06:02:57Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > The OP has a point. None of us, including Bernie Sanders, can know what Donald Trump truly believes. We can observe that Trump says hateful things about Muslims and Mexicans but we can’t know that he genuinely hates them. Trump may be feigning his hatred because he believes there is a significant number of voters who hate these people and he’s trying to win their support. Both choices in the end do help the ones who follow a hateful agenda. As noted the big flaw on that is that many Republicans do not agree with the hateful messages that Trump is making, regardless if Trump is the king of the naives or a racist. ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2015, 6:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-so-many-lies-about-trump/740145/29 "2015-12-11T06:05:46Z")
By the way, @OP. You seem to be pretty upset that everyone is “lying” about Trump. Does it bother you at all that Trump is lying to you? > **[PolitiFact | Donald Trump](https://www.politifact.com/personalities/donald-trump/)** > > PolitiFact is a fact-checking website that rates the accuracy of claims by elected officials and others on its Truth-O-Meter. Far more than half of his statements fall under “false” or “pants on fire”. Only 7% of his checked statements qualify as “mostly true”, and _0%_ of his checked statements qualify as “true”. This is the track record of someone who either knows nothing about reality, or really hopes that his target audience knows nothing about reality. ---
**Author:** ![coremelt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4491bb/32.png) [@coremelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/coremelt)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2015, 6:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-so-many-lies-about-trump/740145/30 "2015-12-11T06:12:23Z")
> [@tullsterx](#): > > If you don’t think my example is convincing then there’s no further discussion to be had. What Sander’s said was a complete, clear, and obvious lie made in front of a national audience. Trump has repeatedly lied about seeing Muslims celebrating in New Jersey after 911. If you can’t see that is directly with intention to cause hatred of Muslims then there is no discussion to be had with you. Sanders statement is correct in that trump is trying to demonize both Muslims and Mexicans for political gain. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2015, 6:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-so-many-lies-about-trump/740145/31 "2015-12-11T06:29:04Z")
> [@Merneith](#): > > Sanders’ didn’t say a word about what Trump believes in his heart. He observed, correctly, that Trump was telling us to hate the Mexicans and the Muslims. The OP is just trying to obfuscate Trump’s own lies and hatefulness. > [@Peremensoe](#): > > Sanders _didn’t_ make any claims about Trump’s genuine beliefs. Only about his rhetoric, his strategy, and his effect. I didn’t want to kick the OP when he was down. But ironically, in a complaint about political misquoting, he misquoted what Sanders said. I looked it up. Sanders’ never said _“first he tells us to hate Mexicans, now he’s telling us to hate Muslims…”_ His actual statement was _“A few months ago we were supposed to hate Mexicans. He thinks they’re all criminals and rapists. Now he thinks we’re supposed to hate Muslims.”_ ([cite](http://time.com/4142326/bernie-sanders-blasts-trump-on-the-tonight-show-with-jimmy-fallon/)) So in point of fact, Sanders was expressing his opinions on what Trump thought not just on what Trump said. Personally, I’d side with Sanders on this one. In casual conversation, it’s acceptable to simplify the issue and say _“Trump hates Mexicans and Muslims”_ rather than the more precise _“Trump acts in a way that a person who hates Mexicans and Muslims would act.”_ ---
**Author:** ![Merneith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/57b2e6/32.png) [@Merneith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merneith)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2015, 6:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-so-many-lies-about-trump/740145/32 "2015-12-11T06:39:53Z")
Sorry. Should have known to check that quote in the OP. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2015, 6:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-so-many-lies-about-trump/740145/33 "2015-12-11T06:40:58Z")
But then we can also assume that Sanders hates rich people and CEOs, if proposing policies antithetical to their interests and criticizing their behavior is evidence of hate. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2015, 6:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-so-many-lies-about-trump/740145/34 "2015-12-11T06:50:48Z")
Vonnegut’s Maxim applies here, wherein you are what you pretend to be, and must therefore be very careful about what you pretend to be. Mr. Trump is evoking darkness and fear to gain power, what can possibly go right? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2015, 6:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-so-many-lies-about-trump/740145/35 "2015-12-11T06:55:23Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > But then we can also assume that Sanders hates rich people and CEOs, if proposing policies antithetical to their interests and criticizing their behavior is evidence of hate. **Addy**? When I say stuff like sending the rich folks and the bankers to The Wall for People’s Justice, I’m kidding. Like a lot of modern lefties, I have a sentimental fondness for old fashioned leftism…you know, Wobblies, the proletariat, the undead status of Joe Hill. But the Wall? These days? Six months at the Jane Fonda Self-Criticism and Aerobic Dance Camp, tops! ---
**Author:** ![coremelt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4491bb/32.png) [@coremelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/coremelt)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2015, 6:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-so-many-lies-about-trump/740145/36 "2015-12-11T06:56:47Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > But then we can also assume that Sanders hates rich people and CEOs, if proposing policies antithetical to their interests and criticizing their behavior is evidence of hate. Wanting a more equitable distribution of wealth does not mean you hate rich people. This is an infantile argument. ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2015, 7:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-so-many-lies-about-trump/740145/37 "2015-12-11T07:00:18Z")
Earlier in his campaign I would have agreed with the OP. Everyone was so eagerly anticipating the “Now he’s done it” moment that they’d exaggerate or take out of context everything he said. Not that he didn’t say hateful stuff, but there was no individual knock-out blow. Now he’s said enough stupid things that I think summarizing as “He’s telling us to hate Muslims” is fair, as long as it’s not implied he actually said exactly “You should hate Muslims”. ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2015, 7:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-so-many-lies-about-trump/740145/38 "2015-12-11T07:05:07Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > But then we can also assume that Sanders hates rich people and CEOs, if proposing policies antithetical to their interests and criticizing their behavior is evidence of hate. “we”? Bernie Sanders suggests the rich (especially the very rich) pay a larger share of taxes. _Pobrecitos…_ ---
**Author:** ![Ambivalid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2015, 7:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-so-many-lies-about-trump/740145/39 "2015-12-11T07:07:45Z")
Just about every single word out of Trump’s mouth is a lie; rapid-fire, one-after-another, to the point where one lie just eclipses the next. It’s rather unique in its brazenness-and effectiveness. There is never a chance to catch him on one lie, because he just steamrolls thru with a barrage of new lies to cover the first. And someone is putting up a thread, complaining how _other people_ lie about _Trump_ Ha! Classic. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2015, 7:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-so-many-lies-about-trump/740145/40 "2015-12-11T07:12:39Z")
> [@coremelt](#): > > Wanting a more equitable distribution of wealth does not mean you hate rich people. This is an infantile argument. Sanders does not limit himself to that. He’s called rich people greedy. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-so-many-lies-about-trump/740145.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-so-many-lies-about-trump/740145.md?page=3)