# Why so many lies about Trump? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 11, 2015, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-so-many-lies-about-trump/740145 "2015-12-11T03:46:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![tullsterx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e9bcb4/32.png) [@tullsterx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tullsterx)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2015, 7:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-so-many-lies-about-trump/740145/41 "2015-12-11T07:13:45Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > I didn’t want to kick the OP when he was down. But ironically, in a complaint about political misquoting, he misquoted what Sanders said. > > I looked it up. Sanders’ never said _“first he tells us to hate Mexicans, now he’s telling us to hate Muslims…”_ His actual statement was _“A few months ago we were supposed to hate Mexicans. He thinks they’re all criminals and rapists. Now he thinks we’re supposed to hate Muslims.”_ ([cite](http://time.com/4142326/bernie-sanders-blasts-trump-on-the-tonight-show-with-jimmy-fallon/)) So in point of fact, Sanders was expressing his opinions on what Trump thought not just on what Trump said. > > Personally, I’d side with Sanders on this one. In casual conversation, it’s acceptable to simplify the issue and say _“Trump hates Mexicans and Muslims”_ rather than the more precise _“Trump acts in a way that a person who hates Mexicans and Muslims would act.”_ Yeah, that’s the right quote. . . and a bigger lie. Trump never said he thinks all Mexicans are criminals and rapists and never said anything about us hating Muslims. So, basically, most of you are saying it’s OK for Bernie Sanders to lie about what Donald Trump says, but it’s not OK for Trump to lie at times. Interesting but expected. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2015, 7:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-so-many-lies-about-trump/740145/42 "2015-12-11T07:15:08Z")
> [@](#): > > Sanders does not limit himself to that. He’s called rich people greedy. Ridiculous thing to say! Its not like they were teachers, or in some union! ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2015, 7:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-so-many-lies-about-trump/740145/43 "2015-12-11T07:18:01Z")
> [@](#): > > …So, basically, most of you are saying it’s OK for Bernie Sanders to lie about what Donald Trump says, but it’s not OK for Trump to lie at times. Interesting but expected. Shit, guys, the liberal hypocrisy card! We’re done for, give it up. Just once you’d think they’d forget about it, and we could win one! But, _noooooo_! ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2015, 7:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-so-many-lies-about-trump/740145/44 "2015-12-11T07:36:09Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Ridiculous thing to say! Its not like they were teachers, or in some union! All rich people are greedy? That’s a pretty negative trait to ascribe to a group as a whole. But I’m glad we’ve established that you can a) propose policies negatively affecting a group, and b) say bad things about that group, and that this in no way implies that you hate that group. ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2015, 7:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-so-many-lies-about-trump/740145/45 "2015-12-11T07:38:27Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > But then we can also assume that Sanders hates rich people and CEOs, if proposing policies antithetical to their interests and criticizing their behavior is evidence of hate. …wat Are you seriously comparing “a slightly higher marginal tax rate because they earn so much money” and “a slightly better social safety net because it’s good for everyone else” to “put them on a registry because of radicals within their religion”?! > [@adaher](#): > > Sanders does not limit himself to that. He’s called rich people greedy. _ **gasp** _ Whaaaat? He implied that the people hoarding almost half the wealth of this country and fighting against a more charitable tax rate are _greedy_? That monster! Why, two days from now, he’ll have called for them all to be put up against the wall and shot! Oh wait, no he won’t, because that’s not the direction his campaign has taken at all. He’s not a radical communist. He’s a nordic democrat with a labeling problem. Look, adaher, do you really not see any substantial difference between Trump’s rhetoric and Sanders’ rhetoric? I mean, at the very least, can you tell the difference between punching up at a legitimate problem (attacking the extremely rich and powerful, who have done some rather nasty things to this nation’s economy through their, yes, _greed_) and punching down at an imaginary one (attacking marginalized minorities who are already in danger of racial/sectarian violence, and which do not pose the threats he claims they do)? Because that’s two really important differences right there. > [@tullsterx](#): > > Yeah, that’s the right quote. . . and a bigger lie. Trump never said he thinks all Mexicans are criminals and rapists and never said anything about us hating Muslims. > > So, basically, most of you are saying it’s OK for Bernie Sanders to lie about what Donald Trump says, but it’s not OK for Trump to lie at times. Interesting but expected. Did you read my previous post? The one where I addressed your complaints at length? 🙂 Sanders really isn’t lying about Trump. However, Trump doesn’t just lie “at times”, he lies constantly and without reprive. Almost nothing he says actually passes the sniff test, from the claim that Mexico is “sending their worst” to the claim that Muslims celebrated 9/11 in New Jersey, to the claim that his campaign is entirely self-funded. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2015, 7:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-so-many-lies-about-trump/740145/46 "2015-12-11T07:41:21Z")
Okay, so as long as you’re hating up, and the problem is legit, it’s okay. But if the problem is legit and you’re punching down, then it’s not okay. ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2015, 7:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-so-many-lies-about-trump/740145/47 "2015-12-11T07:50:48Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Okay, so as long as you’re hating up, and the problem is legit, it’s okay. But if the problem is legit and you’re punching down, then it’s not okay. Legit? You mean like the problem of Obama inviting hundreds of thousands of Syrian refugees? > **[Donald Trump says President Obama wants the U.S. to take in 250,000 people...](https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2015/dec/01/donald-trump/donald-trump-says-president-obama-wants-us-take-25/)** > > Donald Trump, the hard-charging businessman who had been leading voter polls for the Republican presidential nomination, Or the problem of Muslims in America celebrating 9/11? > **[From the archives: What Trump said about some cheering 9/11](https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2015/nov/22/donald-trump/fact-checking-trumps-claim-thousands-new-jersey-ch/)** > > Arguing that there are terrorist sympathizers in the United States, Donald Trump says he saw "thousands" of New Jerseyan Or the problem of Sanders taxing Americans at 90%? > **[Trump: Bernie Sanders wants to tax 'you people' at 90 percent](https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2015/oct/20/donald-trump/trump-bernie-sanders-wants-tax-everyone-90-percent/)** > > At a recent rally in Richmond, Va., Donald Trump called Bernie Sanders the c-word — "communist" — and suggested that San Or the problem of Mexico sending their worst? > **[Donald Trump: 'The Mexican government ... they send the bad ones over'](https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2015/aug/06/donald-trump/trump-mexican-government-they-send-bad-ones-over/)** > > In the first Republican primary debate of the 2016 presidential race, billionaire developer Donald Trump -- the leader i Or the problem of most illegal immigrants being violent criminals or drug dealers? [http://www.wsj.com/articles/the-mythical-connection-between-immigrants-and-crime-1436916798](http://www.wsj.com/articles/the-mythical-connection-between-immigrants-and-crime-1436916798) What you’re missing, **adaher** , is that Trump is a _liar_. The issues he brings up aren’t just punching down, they’re also fake. As in, not real. That’s actually something I brought up in my post. And they’re lies that target the most vulnerable among us. Trump is not Sam Harris. He’s not some grouchy intellectual openly saying “here are some real problems with X, Y, and Z and we need to talk about them, not just shut up and ignore them for political correctness.” He’s more akin to a German fascist propping up the Dolchstoßlegende, because his issues ARE NOT REAL. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2015, 8:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-so-many-lies-about-trump/740145/48 "2015-12-11T08:25:41Z")
I get that his specifics are all bullshit, but people listen because immigration actually is broken, and because terrorism is a very real threat. I’m just trying to pin down what makes it hateful. Is it the fact that a lot of what he says is untrue? I wonder if Sanders can back up his greed accusations? ---
**Author:** ![Vaevictis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/f04885/32.png) [@Vaevictis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Vaevictis)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2015, 8:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-so-many-lies-about-trump/740145/49 "2015-12-11T08:39:30Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > But then we can also assume that Sanders hates rich people and CEOs, if proposing policies antithetical to their interests and criticizing their behavior is evidence of hate. No we will say that Sanders encourages us to hate rich people and CEOs when he claims that they are sending rapists, murderers and terrorists to harm us. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2015, 8:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-so-many-lies-about-trump/740145/50 "2015-12-11T08:43:31Z")
I don’t know, accusing the rich of being the reason we’re poor and basically stealing from us isn’t exactly mild language. It also happens to be a lie. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2015, 8:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-so-many-lies-about-trump/740145/51 "2015-12-11T08:54:04Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > I don’t know, accusing the rich of being the reason we’re poor and basically stealing from us isn’t exactly mild language. > > It also happens to be a lie. That isn’t what he said though. He’s saying that the very rich use their power and connections to give themselves more favorable conditions to maximize their wealth, at the expense of everyone else. The US no longer has the upward mobility we used to. If the economy grows, it would be best for it to benefit everyone. This rising tide only lifts luxury yachts, not working tugboats. ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2015, 9:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-so-many-lies-about-trump/740145/52 "2015-12-11T09:18:25Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > I get that his specifics are all bullshit, but people listen because immigration actually is broken, and because terrorism is a very real threat. > > I’m just trying to pin down what makes it hateful. And I’m just about done trying to explain what’s hateful about a populist candidate spreading dangerous, untrue stereotypes about marginalized minorities. This is not that hard. It really isn’t. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2015, 9:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-so-many-lies-about-trump/740145/53 "2015-12-11T09:28:30Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > That isn’t what he said though. He’s saying that the very rich use their power and connections to give themselves more favorable conditions to maximize their wealth, at the expense of everyone else. Which is also not true. Is Warren Buffett doing this? How about Bill Gates? Or is he referring to Harry Reid? > [@](#): > > The US no longer has the upward mobility we used to. If the economy grows, it would be best for it to benefit everyone. This rising tide only lifts luxury yachts, not working tugboats. It’s a reasonable argument to make and everyone is making it. Demonization of the rich isn’t an important part of that argument, just as you can argue for stricter immigration enforcement without demonizing Mexicans. ---
**Author:** ![coremelt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4491bb/32.png) [@coremelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/coremelt)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2015, 9:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-so-many-lies-about-trump/740145/54 "2015-12-11T09:32:22Z")
Trump is such an obnoxious slimebag that I have no problem with anyone lying if thats whats needed in order to stop him. But you don’t even need to lie to sling mud at him. What about his very convenient medical condition which stopped him being drafted to Vietnam? How do his supporters who are mostly right wing and very pro military reconcile the fact that he’s a dirty draft dodger? > **[Trump evades specifics on his draft deferment](https://www.politico.com/story/2015/07/donald-trump-evades-specifics-on-his-draft-deferment-120330)** > > His vague account of a critical period in 1968 and 1969 raises questions about his explanation of why he did not serve in Vietnam. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2015, 9:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-so-many-lies-about-trump/740145/55 "2015-12-11T09:43:12Z")
WAit, I thought we were all pro-military and that we all thought draft dodgers were unelectable? ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2015, 9:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-so-many-lies-about-trump/740145/56 "2015-12-11T09:49:42Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Which is also not true. Is Warren Buffett doing this? How about Bill Gates? Or is he referring to Harry Reid? No, not also. You haven’t demonstrated an initial untruth. Individual wealthy people don’t have to be nefarious. Their self-serving actions taken in aggregate have unbalanced the system over time. > [@](#): > > It’s a reasonable argument to make and everyone is making it. Demonization of the rich isn’t an important part of that argument, just as you can argue for stricter immigration enforcement without demonizing Mexicans. If you think saying billionaires have distorted the system to their benefit is the same thing as saying Mexico is sending us rapists, or that all Muslims are suspect, so none can come here, that’s on you. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2015, 9:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-so-many-lies-about-trump/740145/57 "2015-12-11T09:51:49Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > WAit, I thought we were all pro-military and that we all thought draft dodgers were unelectable? You didn’t take into account how ignorant and angry the GOP base is. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2015, 10:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-so-many-lies-about-trump/740145/58 "2015-12-11T10:05:52Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > No, not also. You haven’t demonstrated an initial untruth. > > Individual wealthy people don’t have to be nefarious. Their self-serving actions taken in aggregate have unbalanced the system over time. If you think saying billionaires have distorted the system to their benefit is the same thing as saying Mexico is sending us rapists, or that all Muslims are suspect, so none can come here, that’s on you. [/QUOTE] So now it’s a few hundred people who are wrecking our country? Good, easy to round up. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2015, 10:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-so-many-lies-about-trump/740145/59 "2015-12-11T10:06:49Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > So now it’s a few hundred people who are wrecking our country? Good, easy to round up. You seem to be having some trouble parsing what I’m saying. Why not try again, and get back to me? ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2015, 10:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-so-many-lies-about-trump/740145/60 "2015-12-11T10:13:16Z")
Okay, how have billionaires distorted the system? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-so-many-lies-about-trump/740145.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-so-many-lies-about-trump/740145.md?page=4)