# Why so many white people social/subcultures as compared to blacks? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 22, 2009, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-so-many-white-people-social-subcultures-as-compared-to-blacks/482521 "2009-01-22T21:23:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Biggirl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biggirl/32/3294_2.png) [@Biggirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biggirl)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2009, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-so-many-white-people-social-subcultures-as-compared-to-blacks/482521/41 "2009-01-23T18:58:17Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > So what would be ‘overcoming’ exactly? > > Does perpetual victim status confer some kind of power? What exactly is it that hasn’t been overcome? There are black people living in the big houses, running Fortune 500 corporations, a President of the United States, the greatest golfer in history. > > What exactly do you want? Every black person to be rich and successful like every white person obviously is? I would like for white people to not automatically assume I’m a hootchie mama. That would be a little like overcoming. I’d like my son to be able to wear a puffy coat and knit cap and not be labeled a thug. I’d like for people to view me as an individual-- sort of like white people are. ---
**Author:** ![Maeglin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8baadc/32.png) [@Maeglin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maeglin)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2009, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-so-many-white-people-social-subcultures-as-compared-to-blacks/482521/42 "2009-01-23T18:59:35Z")
> [@Biggirl](#): > > I would like for white people to not automatically assume I’m a hootchie mama. You aren’t? Really? And I’ve met you, too! ---
**Author:** ![Jamaika\_a\_jamaikaiake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/7993a0/32.png) [@Jamaika\_a\_jamaikaiake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jamaika_a_jamaikaiake)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2009, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-so-many-white-people-social-subcultures-as-compared-to-blacks/482521/43 "2009-01-23T19:00:55Z")
The other OP forgot “Uncle Tom.” ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2009, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-so-many-white-people-social-subcultures-as-compared-to-blacks/482521/44 "2009-01-23T19:02:40Z")
> [@Biggirl](#): > > I would like for white people to not automatically assume I’m a hootchie mama. That would be a little like overcoming. I’d like my son to be able to wear a puffy coat and knit cap and not be labeled a thug. I’d like for people to view me as an individual-- sort of like white people are. If you’ll recognize that as a white person I wasn’t automatically handed the keys to Daddy’s corporation at birth, and don’t have any more control over racial equality than you do, it’s a deal, I won’t assume you are a hootchie mama. 😉 Like you probably have, I’ve been fulfilling my part of this bargain for years. I’ve known plenty of black goths, and they are every bit as corny as the white ones. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2009, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-so-many-white-people-social-subcultures-as-compared-to-blacks/482521/45 "2009-01-23T19:03:42Z")
When are black people going to realize that white people like the one in the OP are just some morons and that it’s not endemic amongst white people to view black people this way? ---
**Author:** ![DianaG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7ab992/32.png) [@DianaG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DianaG)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2009, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-so-many-white-people-social-subcultures-as-compared-to-blacks/482521/46 "2009-01-23T19:08:10Z")
Probably around the same time that white people realize that taking note of the existence of racism, let alone calling one guy out on it, is not a blanket condemnation of white people. ---
**Author:** ![Biggirl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biggirl/32/3294_2.png) [@Biggirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biggirl)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2009, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-so-many-white-people-social-subcultures-as-compared-to-blacks/482521/47 "2009-01-23T19:19:07Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > When are black people going to realize that white people like the one in the OP are just some morons and that it’s not endemic amongst white people to view black people this way? Good thing I only pitted **Freejooky** then, innit? I was going to throw in something about all the people who have told me that I’m “different” than black people as if that’s some sort of compliment but decided to leave it at just Jooky so as not to confuse the slow-witted. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2009, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-so-many-white-people-social-subcultures-as-compared-to-blacks/482521/48 "2009-01-23T19:21:26Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > When are black people going to realize that white people like the one in the OP are just some morons and that it’s not endemic amongst white people to view black people this way? From the outside (I’m not black), I’ve gotta say it’s probably more endemic than you think. To pick one example, how many threads did we have here that asked if black people were going to riot if Obama lost? A lot of the assumptions people make about other racial and ethnic groups are implicit and subtle. You can never make all of those go away but the mass of them does have an impact on people’s lives. “Why are black people all either thugs or hos?” is a fucking moronic question, but there are a lot of other kinds of prejudice out there - many of them not hateful but still harmful. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2009, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-so-many-white-people-social-subcultures-as-compared-to-blacks/482521/49 "2009-01-23T19:22:06Z")
> [@Biggirl](#): > > Good thing I only pitted **Freejooky** then, innit? > > I was going to throw in something about all the people who have told me that I’m “different” than black people as if that’s some sort of compliment but decided to leave it at just Jooky so as not to confuse the slow-witted. I was mainly responding to **Duckster** ’s comment about not having overcome, like the existance of one guy like **Freejooky** is indicative of an overall culture. ---
**Author:** ![Fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bc8723/32.png) [@Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fish)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2009, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-so-many-white-people-social-subcultures-as-compared-to-blacks/482521/50 "2009-01-23T19:26:38Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > From the outside (I’m not black), I’ve gotta say it’s probably more endemic than you think. To pick one example, how many threads did we have here that asked if black people were going to riot if Obama lost? A lot of the assumptions people make about other racial and ethnic groups are implicit and subtle. There might be some justification in it, though, given how strongly Obama polled among black voters, and how much better black-voter turnout was for this election. I see what you’re saying, though. It’s the same kind of wrongheaded thinking that caused the GOP to pick Sarah Palin. “She’s a woman, therefore women will vote for her,” is how I read the strategy. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2009, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-so-many-white-people-social-subcultures-as-compared-to-blacks/482521/51 "2009-01-23T19:33:48Z")
> [@Fish](#): > > There might be some justification in it, though, given how strongly Obama polled among black voters, and how much better black-voter turnout was for this election. I understand black people supported Obama very strongly on the whole, and that many were emotionally invested in his candidacy. But when the first Asian guy runs for president, I am confident people are not going to ask if Asian-Americans will riot if he loses. And the question wouldn’t have been asked involving women if Clinton had been nominated. The idea of women being alienated from the Democratic party was discussed, but it was assumed they would be civil. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2009, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-so-many-white-people-social-subcultures-as-compared-to-blacks/482521/52 "2009-01-23T20:31:37Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > I was mainly responding to **Duckster** ’s comment about not having overcome, like the existance of one guy like **Freejooky** is indicative of an overall culture. Do you think **Duckster** is black? The only reason I ask is because you asked “When are **black people** going to realize that white people like the one in the OP are just some morons and that it’s not endemic amongst white people to view black people this way?” ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2009, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-so-many-white-people-social-subcultures-as-compared-to-blacks/482521/53 "2009-01-23T20:37:51Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > Do you think **Duckster** is black? > > The only reason I ask is because you asked “When are **black people** going to realize that white people like the one in the OP are just some morons and that it’s not endemic amongst white people to view black people this way?” He said, ‘We’ when he talked about overcoming. Maybe he’s not black. ---
**Author:** ![eleanorigby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee7513/32.png) [@eleanorigby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eleanorigby)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2009, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-so-many-white-people-social-subcultures-as-compared-to-blacks/482521/54 "2009-01-23T20:48:58Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > Do you think **Duckster** is black? > > The only reason I ask is because you asked “When are **black people** going to realize that white people like the one in the OP are just some morons and that it’s not endemic amongst white people to view black people this way?” I read that question as a general one, made in response to **Duckster’s** post. Just my two cents. I don’t understand the assumption made by you(?). I doubt highly that most white people are seen as individuals–I am lumped into a category depending on where I am and who I’m with, just like most other people are. To some I’m a soccer mom. To others, a working mom. Or a liberal Democrat. Or a lapsed Christian. Or a sheltered suburbanite living a bubble. Or a pissy feminist who carries a grudge against all men. A white nurse who can’t possibly help me (insert minority here). And even a frigid bitch/prude… I am all and none of these things. I’m sorry I can’t stand as an example of white trash/ new money/skank/hanger-on, but I can only speak from my experience. Those categories are common in the white community. The names change. depending on the gender or race, but the traits don’t. I’ll say it if no one else will–I’d like “black people” to realize that the moronic thinking shown by the poster in question is not endemic among “white people”.\* But I know that assumptions are made by all people regarding individuals, based on their appearance and behavior. Such categorization can be hurtful and harmful or helpful and supportive–but it’s not going to end. How it manifests itself and what is done about it is what matters. \*I put these in quotation marks because I think these groups are more fluid than we admit and also that they are hardly monolithic in their makeup, outlook or choices. ---
**Author:** ![Fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bc8723/32.png) [@Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fish)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2009, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-so-many-white-people-social-subcultures-as-compared-to-blacks/482521/55 "2009-01-23T20:56:03Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > I understand black people supported Obama very strongly on the whole, and that many were emotionally invested in his candidacy. But when the first Asian guy runs for president, I am confident people are not going to ask if Asian-Americans will riot if he loses. Dude, he was from Chicago. In Chicago they riot if they _win_ too. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Biggirl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biggirl/32/3294_2.png) [@Biggirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biggirl)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2009, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-so-many-white-people-social-subcultures-as-compared-to-blacks/482521/56 "2009-01-23T21:17:14Z")
> [@eleanorigby](#): > > I read that question as a general one, made in response to **Duckster’s** post. Just my two cents. I don’t understand the assumption made by you(?). > I doubt highly that most white people are seen as individuals–I am lumped into a category depending on where I am and who I’m with, just like most other people are. To some I’m a soccer mom. To others, a working mom. Or a liberal Democrat. Or a lapsed Christian. Or a sheltered suburbanite living a bubble. Or a pissy feminist who carries a grudge against all men. A white nurse who can’t possibly help me (insert minority here). And even a frigid bitch/prude… All of which take into account what you, as an individual, are doing, where you are and who you are with. As opposed to sitting on a bench at lunchtime going “Hootchie, hootchie, professional, thug, thug, thug, thug professional, hootchie. . .” ---
**Author:** ![eleanorigby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee7513/32.png) [@eleanorigby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eleanorigby)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2009, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-so-many-white-people-social-subcultures-as-compared-to-blacks/482521/57 "2009-01-23T21:21:21Z")
> [@Biggirl](#): > > All of which take into account what you, as an individual, are doing, where you are and who you are with. As opposed to sitting on a bench at lunchtime going “Hootchie, hootchie, professional, thug, thug, thug, thug professional, hootchie. . .” But that is my point–I remain the same; how I’m viewed changes with the viewer. Obviously anyone who watches people of any race/gender/ethnicity go by and count hootchie/thug etc is a moron and not worthy of consideration (depressing how many there are, though, no?), but my point was simply that categorization–good or ill–is simply human nature. My other point is that whites in general do NOT do what is described. Do blacks when watching whites? I doubt it. I’m not helping, am I? I’ll shut up now. ☹ Aside: Hootchie/Thug has a certain ring to it. I like it–maybe as a user name… 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Biggirl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biggirl/32/3294_2.png) [@Biggirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biggirl)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2009, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-so-many-white-people-social-subcultures-as-compared-to-blacks/482521/58 "2009-01-23T21:26:34Z")
I’m beginning to think **Freejooky** isn’t gonna honor my black ass with an appearance in this thread. And here I had all my eye and neck-rolling sass just a-waiting. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2009, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-so-many-white-people-social-subcultures-as-compared-to-blacks/482521/59 "2009-01-23T23:11:17Z")
> [@Omega\_Glory](#): > > I’ll always remember \*\*Freejooky \*\*for his post complaining that most blacks had a chip on their shoulder, which was a good setup that led **monstro** to make a funny post about how her chip makes her crave malt liquor. I think you’re thinking of someone else. I can’t remember ever saying anything so clever. ---
**Author:** ![Omega\_Glory](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/7c8e57/32.png) [@Omega\_Glory](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omega_Glory)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2009, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-so-many-white-people-social-subcultures-as-compared-to-blacks/482521/60 "2009-01-23T23:46:22Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > I think you’re thinking of someone else. I can’t remember ever saying anything so clever. Nope, it was you, and whoa, from almost five years ago. [QUOTE=monstro] When I go to a restaurant and I pull out extra cash for a tip, the ChipTM tells me to put it away so I can afford more crack and malt liquor. And now I find out it’s supposed to be telling me to stick it to Whitey. Maybe the CIA made a mix up and gave me the wrong one? [/QUOTE] [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=4951678&postcount=82](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=4951678&postcount=82) After this post: [QUOTE=Freejooky] I think that many blacks don’t tip white servers because, like the incorrigble Dad who thinks he’s protesting the whole tipping establishment, they feel that they’re “getting back at whitey” for percieved abuse. Let’s not be politically correct, here - the vast majority of African Americans walk around with a chip on their shoulder and a sense of entitlement. I’d imagine they think they’re getting their reparations one stiffed white kid at a time. [/QUOTE] [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=4950410&postcount=72](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=4950410&postcount=72) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-so-many-white-people-social-subcultures-as-compared-to-blacks/482521.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-so-many-white-people-social-subcultures-as-compared-to-blacks/482521.md?page=4)