# Why so much broken hardware but few dead bodies **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Tags:** ukraine-invasion\ **Created:** [April 29, 2022, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-so-much-broken-hardware-but-few-dead-bodies/963694 "2022-04-29T21:32:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Al128](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/al128/32/16541_2.png) [@Al128](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Al128)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2022, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-so-much-broken-hardware-but-few-dead-bodies/963694/1 "2022-04-29T21:32:11Z")
Hi there, based on all those hundreds of 10-40 sec. videos of war-hardware been taken out that circulate the twitter/reddit sphere … It just dawned on me that I hardly remember a single one with dead enemies in the video … are those vids all sanitized? … how is that possible, given that many of those are grass-roots? or do the operators des-integrate so violently that nothing stays behind ? ---
**Author:** ![gnoitall](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bb73d2/32.png) [@gnoitall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnoitall)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2022, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-so-much-broken-hardware-but-few-dead-bodies/963694/2 "2022-04-29T21:58:04Z")
One example is all the images of knocked out armored vehicles, particularly the various tanks. As [discussed in another thread,](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24/960037/5143) the tanks in use in this fight have a peculiar design flaw: any penetrating damage that ignites the tank’s stored ammunition or its propellant will result in a cataclysmic interior fire that the crew has less than a few seconds to escape or be reduced to ash and distributed to the wind by the turret popping off the tank like an explosive jack-in-the-box. So don’t expect to see remains in that case, unless you can distinguish one ash pile from another. ---
**Author:** ![Al128](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/al128/32/16541_2.png) [@Al128](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Al128)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2022, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-so-much-broken-hardware-but-few-dead-bodies/963694/3 "2022-04-29T22:10:56Z")
I understand the “pop-top” tank aspect - and what it means to the crew… but I must have seen dozens of ambushed/burnt out troop transporters as well … but no dead troop ---
**Author:** ![gnoitall](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bb73d2/32.png) [@gnoitall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnoitall)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2022, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-so-much-broken-hardware-but-few-dead-bodies/963694/4 "2022-04-29T22:13:52Z")
I also think it may be a matter of which sources you use. Unless you’re going directly to Ukrainian sources, you’ll probably get some selectivity against showing highly sensitive and disturbing content. ---
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2022, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-so-much-broken-hardware-but-few-dead-bodies/963694/5 "2022-04-29T23:19:02Z")
oh, nevermind… ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2022, 8:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-so-much-broken-hardware-but-few-dead-bodies/963694/6 "2022-04-30T08:44:27Z")
Videos with dead bodies are available, but you generally have to exert a small amount of effort to find them. Mass/mainstream media usually has either shots chosen for lack of gore or uses blurring/pixels to cover the gore. ---
**Author:** ![snowthx](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowthx/32/10660_2.png) [@snowthx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snowthx)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2022, 11:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-so-much-broken-hardware-but-few-dead-bodies/963694/7 "2022-04-30T11:50:52Z")
I am sure the Russian propaganda machine is telling Russians that if they see images of burned-out Russian tanks, it’s just a Ukrainian hoax, and its the same tank used in all the images, and it was destroyed on purpose, and the crew escaped unharmed, and only the uninformed, untrained eye would see this and think anything bad has happened to Russians. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2022, 12:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-so-much-broken-hardware-but-few-dead-bodies/963694/8 "2022-04-30T12:20:12Z")
I saw a private car that had been shot by a Russian tank. The bodies were blurred out by CNN. ---
**Author:** ![Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmer_j.fudd/32/1211_2.png) [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elmer_J.Fudd)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2022, 1:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-so-much-broken-hardware-but-few-dead-bodies/963694/9 "2022-04-30T13:25:22Z")
If at all possible, retreating troops will recover the bodies of their fallen before the area is taken by the enemy. Troops are far less likely to allow photos taken of their own dead. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2022, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-so-much-broken-hardware-but-few-dead-bodies/963694/10 "2022-04-30T19:47:56Z")
_Our_ troops will do that, but you need to be careful making that sort of assumption about other groups/nations/cultures. ---
**Author:** ![Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmer_j.fudd/32/1211_2.png) [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elmer_J.Fudd)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2022, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-so-much-broken-hardware-but-few-dead-bodies/963694/11 "2022-04-30T19:56:23Z")
Sounds like you’re the one making assumptions that conveniently dehumanize the soldiers on the side you oppose. Even if you assume against all evidence that Russians are incapable of basic human comradeship or care for their fallen colleagues, it doesn’t make sense to leave their dead behind to be used for propaganda, intelligence, accurate body counts, etc. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2022, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-so-much-broken-hardware-but-few-dead-bodies/963694/12 "2022-04-30T20:34:44Z")
Enemies killed inside a vehicle will still be inside the vehicle. And even a destroyed vehicle will still do a pretty good job at hiding the bodies inside. There’s also a lot of Russian equipment that’s destroyed after the crew inside has already abandoned it (because it got mired in the mud, or because it broke down due to insufficient maintenance, or because they surrendered as soon as they realized that they were in the middle of a war, or whatever). ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2022, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-so-much-broken-hardware-but-few-dead-bodies/963694/13 "2022-04-30T21:13:50Z")
Wow. Cautioning someone to _not_ make assumptions is now making assumptions? Not everyone is willing to risk the living to bring home the dead. ---
**Author:** ![Bootb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e19b73/32.png) [@Bootb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bootb)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2022, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-so-much-broken-hardware-but-few-dead-bodies/963694/14 "2022-04-30T23:18:58Z")
> [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](#): > > Sounds like you’re the one making assumptions that conveniently dehumanize the soldiers on the side you oppose. Even if you assume against all evidence that Russians are incapable of basic human comradeship or care for their fallen colleagues, it doesn’t make sense to leave their dead behind to be used for propaganda, intelligence, accurate body counts, etc. It would have been simpler and easier to just type, “I don’t follow the news.” > **[Russia’s war dead belie its slogan that no one is left behind](https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2022/04/08/russia-war-dead-soldiers-bodies/)** > > As Russian mothers and widows grieve, countless bodies are unclaimed in Ukraine. [https://www.cnn.com/2022/03/23/europe/ukraine-war-russian-soldiers-deaths-cmd-intl/index.html](https://www.cnn.com/2022/03/23/europe/ukraine-war-russian-soldiers-deaths-cmd-intl/index.html) ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2022, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-so-much-broken-hardware-but-few-dead-bodies/963694/15 "2022-04-30T23:21:31Z")
> [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](#): > > If at all possible, retreating troops will recover the bodies of their fallen before the area is taken by the enemy. Troops are far less likely to allow photos taken of their own dead. That assumption seems to not be supported by news stories from Ukraine: > **[Russia’s war dead belie its slogan that no one is left behind](https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2022/04/08/russia-war-dead-soldiers-bodies/)** > > As Russian mothers and widows grieve, countless bodies are unclaimed in Ukraine. [https://www.euractiv.com/section/europe-s-east/opinion/the-russian-army-left-behind-many-of-its-dead-soldiers/](https://www.euractiv.com/section/europe-s-east/opinion/the-russian-army-left-behind-many-of-its-dead-soldiers/) (the second story is written by a Ukrainian journalist, a factor which may affect partiality. ) ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2022, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-so-much-broken-hardware-but-few-dead-bodies/963694/16 "2022-05-01T02:47:33Z")
There are a fair number in the Reddit r/combatfootage subreddit. But overall, there are two things working against it. One a lot of the videos are Ukrainian, and I suspect that they’re sensible enough to know that a lot of dead bodies, Russian or otherwise isn’t going to play well on social media. And two, people are still respectful of the dead; it doesn’t take a lot of empathy or compassion to realize that those are someone’s sons/fathers/brothers/grandsons/husbands/boyfriends lying in that field/in pieces/crispy-crittered beside the road/etc… and these days pictures of them stand a very real chance of coming back to their loved ones, and that the picture-takers don’t want to do that to them. Especially since they’re mostly conscripts. ---
**Author:** ![Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b487fb/32.png) [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2022, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-so-much-broken-hardware-but-few-dead-bodies/963694/17 "2022-05-01T14:58:16Z")
There are lots of photos and videos of dead Russian soldiers. The OP asks why we don’t see so many in the destroyed hardware (vehicles). Some possible reasons: - There are photos and videos of dead Russians in vehicles that get circulated less than gore-free versions. - The destroyed vehicles were abandoned first and then destroyed by vacating Russians or by Ukrainians. - The crews were not in the vehicles when was destroyed. There are videos of tanks and other vehicles being struck while they are in a parked position, with crews outside the vehicles. - Incineration of corpses within burning vehicles: fuel + ammo = [powerful fire](https://twitter.com/MovieXen/status/1509123381161250816). - Russian reclamation of corpses. - Burial of corpses that have been there a while by local people. - Removal of corpses from vehicles by Ukrainian troops to search them for ID, intelligence materials, looted items. - Corpses eaten by scavenging animals. ---
**Author:** ![YamatoTwinkie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/cc9497/32.png) [@YamatoTwinkie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YamatoTwinkie)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2022, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-so-much-broken-hardware-but-few-dead-bodies/963694/18 "2022-05-02T16:06:41Z")
I’ve seen some discussion that a lot of the BMPs are essentially empty (supposed to be holding up to 7 infantry in addition to crew), with a lot of speculation that russia is fielding excessively undermanned units, potentially because it’s easier to hide missing/ghost troops than things like tanks or APCs/IFVs. ---
**Author:** ![Inigo\_Montoya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inigo_montoya/32/124_2.png) [@Inigo\_Montoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inigo_Montoya)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2022, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-so-much-broken-hardware-but-few-dead-bodies/963694/19 "2022-05-02T16:40:25Z")
A military Faecebook group I belong to led me to one of those sites just last night and I spent about my first and last 30 minutes taking in drone footage. Not super neat-o drone footage like you might get from the US Military, but footage from a hobby store drone as it hauls and drops a mortar round, for instance. There is no shortage of people scattering just before impact; and then after the dust settles, a few motionless and squirming/crawling people. One might come to the conclusion that humans are pretty easy to maim, and relatively hard to kill. And it’s a good bet that for each burned out vehicle there are 3 or 4 dead men you cannot see because they have been collected, burned to ash, or are no longer man-shaped. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2022, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-so-much-broken-hardware-but-few-dead-bodies/963694/20 "2022-05-02T16:59:03Z")
> [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](#): > > Sounds like you’re the one making assumptions that conveniently dehumanize the soldiers on the side you oppose. Even if you assume against all evidence that Russians are incapable of basic human comradeship or care for their fallen colleagues, it doesn’t make sense to leave their dead behind to be used for propaganda, intelligence, accurate body counts, etc. You’re acting like “recovering war dead” is a human instinct on par with, “loving your children.” The US’s focus on battlefield medicine, recovering war dead, and the general “no man left behind” mentality are the product of specific doctrinal decisions about the value of each individual soldier’s life, special training on recovering dead and wounded under fire, and deliberate inculcation of an esprit de corps that emphasizes a “band of brothers” mentality. Three things that the Russia military by turns is either not interested in pursuing, or is actively bad at achieving. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-so-much-broken-hardware-but-few-dead-bodies/963694.md?page=2)